Did Dallas do enough in the off-season to worry you?

[Chris_Sanders]

Thanks for the vote of confidence Chris. Yes they will both be there and Dallas defense will prevail!!

Please...resume your regular Dallas bashing.

Most people here don't bash Dallas and really does it matter in the grand scheme of things if they do?

 

[WALKER TEXAS RANGER]

Actually the Mavs are barely improved on defense themselves on points per possession since the Nelson era. They replaced Nash with Terry(no gain on D, a minus), and Finley with Stack(no gain). What the Mavs have going for them is depth, which will be most useful against teams that are not deep, like the spurs. We'll see how a mavs defense that surrenders 34 points to Diaw in the playoffs works against Amare AND Diaw. You must be pole smoking that special cuban cigar if you think Dampier, Croshere, and/or Diop can guard Diaw AND Amare.

You must be the one doing the pole smoking if you think that replacing Nash with Terry on D is minus. While Terry is no juggernaut on the defensive end, he certainly is an improvement over the leaking defensive seive that is Steve Nash. While Nash's skills are abundant offensively, he just might be one of the worst defenders in the league.

During the Mavs recent 10 game win streak, they are allowing 91.1 ppg #4 in the league, and allowing .446 FG % #13 in the league which very respectable. Now tell me who's doing the pole smoking chief!

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Is the whole "pole smoking" thing at all necessary? I think we can all act like adults here.

 

[Mulli]

Is the whole "pole smoking" thing at all necessary? I think we can all act like adults here.

Thanks for that!! Exactly what I was thinking.

 

[CaptainInsano]

I believe that Utah is the only one gauranteed to be in the WCF. Their game seems solid so far. The other spot is of course a battle between mavs, suns, spurs.

Looking at a battle between the mavs, suns, and spurs I don't find it very reasonable why Dallas fans seem so cocky as if their team is glory bound ESPECIALLY after choking royally against miami IMO.

The thing is, what is it with dallas fans that they feel so threatened by the suns. Right now as a suns fan I am more worried first and formost by Utah, then followed by the spurs.

If I was a dallas fan I think I would feel the same way, I guess all we can say is thanks for the credit mavs fans. I bet it is the suns getting picked to win it all this year in some places so the opinion right now is:

1. Suns or Spurs or Utah
2. Mavs

As far as ranking goes. Go cry dallas! This is what you get when you choke vs miami.

 

[WALKER TEXAS RANGER]

Is the whole "pole smoking" thing at all necessary? I think we can all act like adults here.

Just throwing it back at nowagimp, but you're right, it shows zero class!

 

[nowagimp]

You must be the one doing the pole smoking if you think that replacing Nash with Terry on D is minus. While Terry is no juggernaut on the defensive end, he certainly is an improvement over the leaking defensive seive that is Steve Nash. While Nash's skills are abundant offensively, he just might be one of the worst defenders in the league.

During the Mavs recent 10 game win streak, they are allowing 91.1 ppg #4 in the league, and allowing .446 FG % #13 in the league which very respectable. Now tell me who's doing the pole smoking chief!

The mavs are merely holding opponents shooting percentages to their own dismal 45% FG's. In fact, the adjusted FG's %(for 3pt percentage) of the mavs(48.9% adj) and the suns(49.1% adj) opponents are within 0.2% of each other this season. This makes your assertions of "good defense" laughable, especially considering your own disparaging of the suns defense which is statistically(per possession) not different than the Mavs.

 

[CaptainInsano]

The mavs are merely holding opponents shooting percentages to their own dismal 45% FG's. In fact, the adjusted FG's %(for 3pt percentage) of the mavs(48.9% adj) and the suns(49.1% adj) opponents are within 0.2% of each other this season. This makes your assertions of "good defense" laughable, especially considering your own disparaging of the suns defense which is statistically(per possession) not different than the Mavs.

Bingo!

But lets leave cluelessboro and walker texas barkely here to their own jaded beliefs about the the suns supposed worst defense in the league and the mavs demigod status defense.

At least 99% of suns fans have the common sense to admit our defense isn't what gets us wins and what will get us a title, unlike these mavs fans talking about their team lately.

 

[Dirk_Owns_Marion]

Heh

Bitter. So bitter.

Maybe if you Suns fans talk enough...the results will match-up. They won't. All hot air.

Let's see:

The Suns have no defense. Marion, your best defender, cannot guard Dirk or Josh. Oh, yeah! If Marion can't do it, maybe Amare can. Can you say, 35 points on a relaxed night? Or maybe 50 points in the playoffs?

Unfortunately, Amare will never be 100%--not in comparison to the player he WAS. Two bad knees. It sucks. Really does, I swear. Amare was on his way to being a top PF of all time. Too bad he suckered the Suns organization into a contract, even though he knew he was hurt. Great guy. Go, Black Jesus.

Maybe Marcus Banks can make a difference. Or not. Maybe Kurt Thomas' superior defense will make the difference. Or not.

Or maybe the Suns can continue to lose to the Mavs and Spurs, the real elites in the West. The Suns have always been fakers. Sure, the Mavs should have won the Finals. Then again, Suns fans aren't afforded the right to complain about the collapse--they got knocked out in the WCF, again.

Let's also consider that the Suns had the easiest road to the WCF last season. While you struggled with the Lakers and Clipps, the Mavs took out the defending champs, and did it on their home court. Your team can't even beat San Antonio during the regular season. Maybe if Raja makes his "clutch" free throws...

Maybe if D-an-tonio-teefs talks about defense enough, the rest of the league will believe him.

Sadly, if you expect Amare to be the guy he once was, you are setting yourself up for disappointment. Sure he can develop a jump shooting game, be a solid PF in the league. His consistent, explosive attacks to the basket...those days are gone. Two bad knees. This early in his career. And now you are stuck with his absurd contract and Nash's, right at the time Nash is getting older. Horrible timing, honestly.

Hey, maybe MInny will trade you Garnett. There's more hope in that than you winning a championship with your current team. Translation: there's not much hope.

Suns Trend: Build a huge lead with absurd shots, go cold, then keep taking the same shots. Keep taking ill-advised 3 pointers, leading to fast outlet rebounds for the opposition.

Is it possible that the Suns offense is actually the reason their defense sucks so bad? Hmm. Think about that one for a second.

 

[WALKER TEXAS RANGER]

You're argument is weak. The real telling indicator is point differential. The Mavs are at +9.90 over the last 10 games, easily #1 in the NBA.

 

[msdundee]

What a lovely first post.

 

[CaptainInsano]

Bitter. So bitter.

The Suns have no defense. Marion, your best defender, cannot guard Dirk or Josh. Oh, yeah! If Marion can't do it, maybe Amare can. Can you say, 35 points on a relaxed night? Or maybe 50 points in the playoffs?

Unfortunately, Amare will never be 100%--not in comparison to the player he WAS. Two bad knees. It sucks. Really does, I swear. Amare was on his way to being a top PF of all time. Too bad he suckered the Suns organization into a contract, even though he knew he was hurt. Great guy. Go, Black Jesus.

Maybe Marcus Banks can make a difference. Or not. Maybe Kurt Thomas' superior defense will make the difference. Or not.

Or maybe the Suns can continue to lose to the Mavs and Spurs, the real elites in the West. The Suns have always been fakers. Sure, the Mavs should have won the Finals. Then again, Suns fans aren't afforded the right to complain about the collapse--they got knocked out in the WCF, again.

Let's also consider that the Suns had the easiest road to the WCF last season. While you struggled with the Lakers and Clipps, the Mavs took out the defending champs, and did it on their home court. Your team can't even beat San Antonio during the regular season. Maybe if Raja makes his "clutch" free throws...

Maybe if D-an-tonio-teefs talks about defense enough, the rest of the league will believe him.

Sadly, if you expect Amare to be the guy he once was, you are setting yourself up for disappointment. Sure he can develop a jump shooting game, be a solid PF in the league. His consistent, explosive attacks to the basket...those days are gone. Two bad knees. This early in his career. And now you are stuck with his absurd contract and Nash's, right at the time Nash is getting older. Horrible timing, honestly.

Hey, maybe MInny will trade you Garnett. There's more hope in that than you winning a championship with your current team. Translation: there's not much hope.

Suns Trend: Build a huge lead with absurd shots, go cold, then keep taking the same shots. Keep taking ill-advised 3 pointers, leading to fast outlet rebounds for the opposition.

Is it possible that the Suns offense is actually the reason their defense sucks so bad? Hmm. Think about that one for a second.

Yes lets see, considering now that dirks game is solid enough that he can score 35+ on bruce bowen or basically anybody in the leage if he is having a on-night that is obviously a slight against marion. Because there are a few people I can name in the league that consistently have shut dirk down every game...oh wait..

It is dirks fault when he goes completey cold or scores next to nothing in a 4th quarter like he has done in the past. Time to develop some common sense out of the dallas colored glasses here buddy.

No need to insult amare, I would sure feel great if dirk had microfracture insulting him and would be sure to be insulting him and dallas fans..oh wait..once again I wouldn't bother because acting like that is childish and a waste of time. If Amare can score 20, grab 10 boards, and get a block or two that would be enough to elevate this team to a title if we game right. We DID battle you guys in the WCF last year without him, remember?

Marcus banks so far is not good, KT on the other hand has been solid, and he doesn't matter vs your team because there isn't really anybody for him to guard. Dampier? Diop? Try to make some kind of point next time...

Continue to lose? Do you remember what happened in 04-05 by any chance? It wasn't that long ago. You won last year, good job, but don't beat the chest like you have won 3 years in a row or something.

You keep talking as if this team and fans believe we need amare at 100% 04-05 season shape scoring 37 ppg in the playoffs again to succeed. WAKE UP! Different Team! We don't!

We will see about KG, what will you say if we get KG? What will you say if we don't and still beat you?

No need to once again insult the suns D showing just how clueless you are, how many times does it need to be said that per possesion the suns and mavs are almost the exact same in opponents FG%?

Give me a break and try to make a real argument next time.

 

[nowagimp]

You're argument is weak. The real telling indicator is point differential. The Mavs are at +9.90 over the last 10 games, easily #1 in the NBA.

so a 9.9 point differential against the likes of the Blazers(5-9) bulls(5-10), memphis 2 times(4-10), bobcats(4-10), wiz(5-9), spurs, Hornets(8-7) and twolves(6-8). Looks like a cupcake schedule so far in the streak and with more weak teams lined up for early Dec, YOUR stats are weak.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

This is seriously close to being moved to the smack shack.

Suns fans aren't helping here by the way.

 

[WALKER TEXAS RANGER]

so a 9.9 point differential against the likes of the Blazers(5-9) bulls(5-10), memphis 2 times(4-10), bobcats(4-10), wiz(5-9), spurs, Hornets(8-7) and twolves(6-8). Looks like a cupcake schedule so far in the streak and with more weak teams lined up for early Dec, YOUR stats are weak.

Looks like you conveniently left the Suns out of the mix, oh I'm sorry another cupcake (7-6). By the way your current 4 game win streak isn't exactly against the cream of the crop , let me know when you beat someone of the Spurs caliber.

 

[CaptainInsano]

Looks like you conveniently left the Suns out of the mix, oh I'm sorry another cupcake (7-6). By the way your current 4 game win streak isn't exactly against the cream of the crop , let me know when you beat someone of the Spurs caliber.

I'm sorry to break it to you but none of this matters until we run into you guys (if it happends) in the playoffs. Miami didn't seem like much of threat to dallas let alone a title contender and we all saw what happened to dallas there.

I wouldn't be acting so cocky if I were a mavs fan, I will bring up the collapse against miami time and time again to remind you..

Anything goes in the playoffs.

 

[WALKER TEXAS RANGER]

I'm sorry to break it to you but none of this matters until we run into you guys (if it happends) in the playoffs. Miami didn't seem like much of threat to dallas let alone a title contender and we all saw what happened to dallas there.

I wouldn't be acting so cocky if I were a mavs fan, I will bring up the collapse against miami time and time again to remind you..

Anything goes in the playoffs.

Listen, it's too early for anyone to beat their chest. I think the Suns will be right there again this season. I'm just having some harmless debate with you guys because some of your posters seem to think the Suns will cakewalk all the way to the finals just because they've won 4 games in a row. If Amare, and Steve stay healthy they can contend, but they just don't have any defensive committment in my opinion.

I also know it wil be tough for the Mavs to make it back. They're still a work in progress defensively, but I think they've got a better chance than most of you Suns fans think. At least they're committed to improving that part of their game. Hopefully they can improve the weaknesses that were exposed during the finals collapse. Too early to predict right now.

 

[WALKER TEXAS RANGER]

I believe that Utah is the only one gauranteed to be in the WCF. Their game seems solid so far. The other spot is of course a battle between mavs, suns, spurs.

Looking at a battle between the mavs, suns, and spurs I don't find it very reasonable why Dallas fans seem so cocky as if their team is glory bound ESPECIALLY after choking royally against miami IMO.

The thing is, what is it with dallas fans that they feel so threatened by the suns. Right now as a suns fan I am more worried first and formost by Utah, then followed by the spurs.

If I was a dallas fan I think I would feel the same way, I guess all we can say is thanks for the credit mavs fans. I bet it is the suns getting picked to win it all this year in some places so the opinion right now is:

1. Suns or Spurs or Utah
2. Mavs

As far as ranking goes. Go cry dallas! This is what you get when you choke vs miami.

Don't get ready to put Utah on a pedastile just yet. Sure they have a healthy Boozer which will make a difference, but let's wait until midseason and see where they are before jumping to conclusions. 1/4 of the season hasn't even been played yet.

 

[Dirk_Owns_Marion]

Sorry

I am still laughing about Utah having a lock on the WCF. Worse than ESPN reporting. Ole' Chuck Barks might even disagree with that guarantee. Well, until the Jazz play on a Tuesday or Thursday night.

Look, I think it sucks that Amare got hurt. I do think a healthy, old-school-like-Amare gives the Suns their best chance. Watching Amare play his game before the injury, it reminded me of a young, explosive Kemp. Anyone who truly believes Amare is "back" hasn't been watching the games. Amare has a decent jumper and I expect that his jump shot will improve (see Webber part deux, only slightly better). But, really, no amount of additional time on the court is going to make either knee better. In fact, both knee injuries promise to get worse, as Amare gets older, as Amare absorbs more contact. It is great that Amare is back in the rotation, contributing. Don't let that fool you into believing that "Amare," as he once was, is back. He's not, it's doubtful, very, that he will return to his dominant, explosive-self.

Now, to the guy claiming that Dirk can drop MoneyBalls on even Bruce Bowen. Yes, Dirk dominates 99% of players in this league. Admitting as much doesn't do much for your argument.

Diaw is playing average in comparison to his production last season. I was talking with a friend before the season began, about the Suns. He was of the opinion that the Suns would be fine with Amare coming back. I, on the other hand, suggested that, no, Amare will limit what the Suns do best: run-n-gun, with a smaller, passing center causing all kinds of mismatch problems for teams. A team with this Amare, it isn't as dangerous as, oh say, last season's Suns team. Exceptional passing, that was last season's Suns team. This season, so far? Not so much.

The one guy who will help the Suns more and more...Barb. That kid is fantastic. Hopefully Harris learns a thing or two from him. Harris has similar speed, driving ability. Harris needs to develop the shooting stroke, similar to Barb's recent shooting explosion--really mixing it up, confusing defenses: penetration or jumper? Defenses aren't sure how to react.

I know what it must be like for Suns fans. Mav fans lived through the Don Nelson years. A few trips in the playoffs, nothing really special. Mike D. is a Don Nelson start-up kit. They act similar, and both have a similar philosophical approach to the game. Both talk about defense, but neither have really made the effort to acquire the right players. Raja is a good defender, but the Suns need 3 or more players like him--at least, from a defensive intensity and ability stand point. In order to get players like that, some offense must be sacrificed. Mike D. is unwilling to do that--or his past track record says so. Maybe that will change. Doubtful.

Suns have a solid team, a fun team, one worth supporting. They have some great guys: Marion, Nash, and Barb--quality guys with great attitudes. If the Mavs don't win a championship, I hope the Suns do. The Spurs are whiners. The Lakers? They are the Lakers. Houston? No thanks. Tmac is a whining choke artist. Kevin Garnett even smiles at that one. So, yeah, if my Mavs can't win it all, I hope little Steve Nash can.

Just offering a few opinions--some negative remarks, a few positive ones.

 

[CaptainInsano]

I am still laughing about Utah having a lock on the WCF. Worse than ESPN reporting. Ole' Chuck Barks might even disagree with that guarantee. Well, until the Jazz play on a Tuesday or Thursday night.

Look, I think it sucks that Amare got hurt. I do think a healthy, old-school-like-Amare gives the Suns their best chance. Watching Amare play his game before the injury, it reminded me of a young, explosive Kemp. Anyone who truly believes Amare is "back" hasn't been watching the games. Amare has a decent jumper and I expect that his jump shot will improve (see Webber part deux, only slightly better). But, really, no amount of additional time on the court is going to make either knee better. In fact, both knee injuries promise to get worse, as Amare gets older, as Amare absorbs more contact. It is great that Amare is back in the rotation, contributing. Don't let that fool you into believing that "Amare," as he once was, is back. He's not, it's doubtful, very, that he will return to his dominant, explosive-self.

Now, to the guy claiming that Dirk can drop MoneyBalls on even Bruce Bowen. Yes, Dirk dominates 99% of players in this league. Admitting as much doesn't do much for your argument.

Diaw is playing average in comparison to his production last season. I was talking with a friend before the season began, about the Suns. He was of the opinion that the Suns would be fine with Amare coming back. I, on the other hand, suggested that, no, Amare will limit what the Suns do best: run-n-gun, with a smaller, passing center causing all kinds of mismatch problems for teams. A team with this Amare, it isn't as dangerous as, oh say, last season's Suns team. Exceptional passing, that was last season's Suns team. This season, so far? Not so much.

I could be wrong I could be right, but it is my strong opinion that if utah continues to play at the level they are currently playing they are a lock on the WCF. They just beat the spurs in a low scoring, grind-it-out game (the spurs specialty) to prove that at a slow paced defensive level they are currently the reigning champs of the nba. They also came back from I believe a 15 point deficit to hand the suns a loss in a high scoring game, proving they can score in spurts and can play in high scoring games.

I and many other suns fans don't believe that amare will ever be exactly what he was before. It irks me that people are talking about amare being back 100% right now, the announcers tonight in the rockets game said something along the lines of "Amare is 97.9%". Uhm, when amare gets the ball at the free throw line, uses his athletics and strength to power toward the hoop around a double team or 3 defenders, and slams the ball ferociously right over a center or PFs face, THEN he is 100% or very close.

When he has that unstoppable crisp jumpshot from mostly the free throw line sometimes around that distance that he used constantly in 04-05 then amare is 100%.

Right now he is getting most of his points in a marion style of attack, feeds from nash, putbacks, and wide open cutting dunks. That is not amare at 100%! Right now he is probably at 85%, and even at that level he is very dangerous, but not until he is actually at 90%+ will he be what you could consider unguardable which is currently not the case. I don't know if he WILL reach that level again.

Diaw is still going into the shell every other game it seems. He just had a horrible game tonight..

Like I said before and I will say it again, amare being 100% is not the key. Amare getting 20 and 10, and diaw not going into a shell is going to be the key to us beating the likes of the spurs/dallas/utah.

 

[slinslin]

Healthy Amare > Dirk
Nash > Terry
Marion > Howard
Diaw > Dampier
Bell > Stackhouse
Barbosa > Harris
Thomas > Diop
Rose > George

At that point you might have a point arguing Banks, Jones and Johnson, Croshere.

case closed.

 

[SactownSunsFan]

Mavs fans are funny.

Mavs through 05-06: 979 Wins, 1,121 Losses for a .466 win percentage

Conference Titles 1 (2006) Division Titles 1 (1987)


Suns through 05-06: 1,694 Wins, 1,386 Losses for a .55 win percentage

Conference Titles 2 (1976, 1993) Division Titles 5 (1981, 1993, 1995, 2005, 2006)

Historically, we are a better team than you by nearly a 10 point margin. End of discussion.

 

[phxrising]

Mavs fans are clowns.

fixed that for you

 

[fordronken]

Healthy Amare > Dirk

Umm...I love Amare. But you're comparing an unquestionable top 5 MVP candidate to what you have personally decided a player could be like. And if you're comparing Nowitzki now to Amare two years ago, well, then you're just wrong.

 

[elindholm]

The Suns have no defense.

News flash. Their defense was even worse in 2004-05, when they eliminated the Mavericks in six.

Marion, your best defender, cannot guard Dirk or Josh.

He does okay against Nowitzki, relatively speaking, but you're right, Howard kills the Suns.

Can you say, 35 points on a relaxed night? Or maybe 50 points in the playoffs?

They've played 12 playoff games in the past two years. How many times has Nowitzki gone for 50?

Too bad he suckered the Suns organization into a contract, even though he knew he was hurt.

True, but given that Sarver now appears willing to spend just as freely as Cuban used to, it's not so much of a problem.

Maybe Marcus Banks can make a difference. Or not. Maybe Kurt Thomas' superior defense will make the difference. Or not.

Or maybe the outcome between two teams that are 6-6 against each other in the playoffs over the last two years will be decided by ... gasp ... a bit more luck on one side or the other.

Or maybe the Suns can continue to lose to the Mavs and Spurs, the real elites in the West.

I'd check your record books about the Suns "continuing" to lose to the Mavericks. As far as the Spurs go, they choked against Dallas and everyone knows it. I wouldn't count on them doing it again.

Sure, the Mavs should have won the Finals.

The Mavericks lucked into their one chance, and blew it. The jury is still out on the Suns.

Maybe if D-an-tonio-teefs talks about defense enough, the rest of the league will believe him.

I doubt it. The Suns need to play better defense. Thanks for the insight.

And now you are stuck with his absurd contract and Nash's, right at the time Nash is getting older.

I was pretty critical of the Nash signing, but you really don't have a leg to stand on here. By the end of this season, he will be more than halfway through the contract and will have turned in three straight MVP-caliber seasons. There's simply nothing to complain about there.

There's more hope in that than you winning a championship with your current team. Translation: there's not much hope.

You don't know how long Suns fans' memories are. This team has come up short in the Finals twice, not just once like the Mavericks. After a while, it stops feeling like such a big accomplishment. But go ahead and crow about having lost the last four games of the entire season.

Suns Trend: Build a huge lead with absurd shots, go cold, then keep taking the same shots. Keep taking ill-advised 3 pointers, leading to fast outlet rebounds for the opposition.

You don't watch the games, obviously. Even when the Suns are going eight minutes without scoring, they're getting killed by the other team's halfcourt offense, not fast breaks.

Is it possible that the Suns offense is actually the reason their defense sucks so bad? Hmm. Think about that one for a second.

Is it possible that you don't know what you're talking about? Your eight-year-old sister told you that the Suns play lousy defense and that Stoudemire's knees are shaky. That's all you have.