Did I read this right, is McGinnis blaming his players?

[vince56]

from today's AZ republic...

"We have not given ourselves much of chance because of our turnovers," McGinnis said Tuesday. "To be minus-17 right now at this point in the season, that is really the only barometer you need to look at for a team that's 3-11."




You know, Dave, I can think of a lot more reasons than just turnovers. Poor schemes and coaching come to mind.

 

[JeffGollin]

Vince - No, I don't think Mac is laying off the poor season on his players. He's just stating a football truism - Turn over the ball a lot and don't force turnovers yourself, and you're not going to win many football games.

Turnovers are turnovers. Players commit them. Coaches share responsibility when they don't place a high enough priority on minimizing them. Head coaches share responsibility for not setting the proper tone.

I think this is an assumed "given" underlying Mac's statement

Trying to read anything more into it seems to me to be unfair and slightly tinged with a desire to stick the needle in a little and twist it.

 

[vince56]

It's not so much that Jeff, I just feel Mac might be trying to lay the load on his players a little bit to take some of the blame for the season off him.

 

[Tangodnzr]

For whatever shortcomings Mac may have.....blaming his players like that has never been one of them.

In fact, I'd say, if anything, he could be criticized for not always holding them accountable enough.

 

[WizardOfAz]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
In fact, I'd say, if anything, he could be criticized for not always holding them accountable enough.

Good point, I was going to say the same thing.

 

[vince56]

I agree too on your point Tango, but turnovers are not "the only barometer" as to why the team is 3-11. It's a big one, no question.

1) unwillingness to bench a player
2) pathetic defensive schemes
3) inability to develop/coach players to perform up to potential
4) Clock mismanagement
5) Undisciplined players -- shown by numerous dumb penalties all season
6) Atrocious OL blocking on key downs
7) Turnovers

Those are the first things I think of as to why the team is 3-11.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Originally posted by vince56
I agree too on your point Tango, but turnovers are not "the only barometer" as to why the team is 3-11. It's a big one, no question.

1) unwillingness to bench a player
2) pathetic defensive schemes
3) inability to develop/coach players to perform up to potential
4) Clock mismanagement
5) Undisciplined players -- shown by numerous dumb penalties all season
6) Atrocious OL blocking on key downs
7) Turnovers

Those are the first things I think of as to why the team is 3-11.

Funny, I think of a roster that is littered with mountains of crap like the Cardinals team currently is. Clearly everyone deserves a little blame.

 

[CaliCards]

Originally posted by vince56
I agree too on your point Tango, but turnovers are not "the only barometer" as to why the team is 3-11. It's a big one, no question.

1) unwillingness to bench a player

5) Undisciplined players -- shown by numerous dumb penalties all season

6) Atrocious OL blocking on key downs

Not to rag on MaC, but I would say no amount of MaC-isms can deflect #1, 5, and 6 as MaC's responsibility as head coach during his tenure at the helm.

 

[WizardOfAz]

Originally posted by vince56
6) Atrocious OL blocking on key downs

I would change the word "key" above to "most".

 

[john h]

Originally posted by JeffGollin
Vince - No, I don't think Mac is laying off the poor season on his players. He's just stating a football truism - Turn over the ball a lot and don't force turnovers yourself, and you're not going to win many football games.

Turnovers are turnovers. Players commit them. Coaches share responsibility when they don't place a high enough priority on minimizing them. Head coaches share responsibility for not setting the proper tone.

I think this is an assumed "given" underlying Mac's statement

Trying to read anything more into it seems to me to be unfair and slightly tinged with a desire to stick the needle in a little and twist it.

Just from memory it seems to me a lot turnovers were from busted plays where the QB handed off to the wrong guy or the wrong player was trying to take the hand off. Also l lot of problems between QB and Center and runners running the wrong route or the QB throwing to the wrong place. Some of this can be attributed to the coaches. I would like to see a break down of how these turnovers took place. Usually you think of a runner just fumbling or an interception but we seemed to have a lot of goofy turnovers.

 

[Northern Card]

Originally posted by vince56
I agree too on your point Tango, but turnovers are not "the only barometer" as to why the team is 3-11. It's a big one, no question.

1) unwillingness to bench a player
2) pathetic defensive schemes
3) inability to develop/coach players to perform up to potential
4) Clock mismanagement
5) Undisciplined players -- shown by numerous dumb penalties all season
6) Atrocious OL blocking on key downs
7) Turnovers

Those are the first things I think of as to why the team is 3-11.

Do I understand, correctly?

Your no. 1 reason for a 3-11 season is your, rather subjective, (Mac's) "unwiilingness to bench a player" - and, the least important is the generally accepted and objective - 'turnover ratio".

You can't guarantee that the player who replaces the guy who's been benched will play better... but, I feel pretty secure in saying that the team that over the course of a season has more turnovers than takeaways, will have a losing season.

 

[vince56]

No I wasn't ranking them #'s 1 through 7. They're just 7 independent reasons. I could probably come up with more. As could just about everyone here.

 

[ajcardfan]

This is the coach who stuck up for his players after the Niner game, saying they were playing as hard as ever.

No way was he directly taking a knock on the players with that statement IMO.

 

[kerouac9]

I don't really believe anything that Mac says anymore. He's kind of in La La Land right now, and the congnitive dissonance between the things he says and the things that are actually happening is so profound that I'm just tuning him out. I'm sure that many of the players are, as well.

He's not blaming the players; he's blaming the turnovers. When no one's at fault but an event (not "Blake's turnovers" or "our inability to make turnovers on defense", just "turnovers" mind you) no one has any responsiblity. "Mistakes were made". There's no agency, so nothing can be done.

This is the most annoying thing about Mac's tenure.

 

[Duckjake]

I feel pretty secure in saying that the team that over the course of a season has more turnovers than takeaways, will have a losing season.

Unless you're Carolina.

But you are correct in that assumption when it comes to the Cardinals. If I'm not mistaken the only two seasons in which they did not have a losing record since moving to Arizona are also the only two years they did not have more turnovers than takeaways.

It is THE constant throughout their tenure in the Valley. Most seasons the differential is in double digits. I think the 2000 team was -24!

 

[vince56]

Originally posted by kerouac9
I don't really believe anything that Mac says anymore. He's kind of in La La Land right now, and the congnitive dissonance between the things he says and the things that are actually happening is so profound that I'm just tuning him out. I'm sure that many of the players are, as well.

You see Kerouac, I feel the same way. I liked Mac up until I heard the post game interview following the Baltimore game this year. We were down 2-3 TDs if I remember correctly, then in the last 3 minutes we scored a meaningless TD to make the game closer. In the post game show, Mac referred started a sentence with "In a close game like this..." That seemed so far from the truth compared to what I had just seen on the field.