Did the Lions game save Whiz/Grimm/Graves?

[Dayman]

It might buy Whis another year, but it shouldn't.

Nothing changed today. The defense played a great game and the offense couldn't top 200 total yards. The only difference is that the breaks actually went our way for once. It's not a sustainable formula for winning, and it certainly shouldn't save anyone's job. Unfortunately, I think it will save Whis.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I will be okay with keeping Whis. But need to fire Grimm and Graves. Then promote Horton to Asst. HC. I will be okay with this.

Not so sure about Grimm at this point, but Graves, Miller and McNulty should probably all be replaced. Offense has been terrible largely because the QB position has been terrible and Graves is the guy who is responsible for the inability to get us a QB.

 

[chickenhead]

Maybe they promote Horton to Assist. HC and force Whiz to bring in Haley at OC. IIRC Whiz has one more year on his contract and a team option for 2014. I wouldn't be surprised if they give him next year, oversee the draft, and if next year isn't better, the job goes to Horton or Haley in 2014. The one who doesn't get it might be gone anyway for another gig. Pure speculation, of course.

 

[D-Dogg]

I hope not. Go away Whis.

 

[DeAnna]

There was a little interaction between Whis and Mike Bidwill that I think said a lot. As they are leaving the field at the end of the first half, Bidwill comes up to Whis, pats him on the back and claps. To me, it was like he was encouraging Whisenhunt.

It definitely was not the way I think he would've acted if the decision to fire Whisenhunt had been made.

I noticed that too. Seems like Mike B was waiting to see how the team reacted this week and probably said "whew, good thing I don't have to fire you now."

 

[Totally_Red]

There are two more games to be played. Anything at this point is just speculation.

He could save his job with a victory over the Bears and a respectable Cardinals performance in the finale at Candlestick, but there will be changes in the offseason. It's just a question of whether he'll be making those changes or be part of them IMO.

 

[Capital Card]

Maybe they promote Horton to Assist. HC and force Whiz to bring in Haley at OC. IIRC Whiz has one more year on his contract and a team option for 2014. I wouldn't be surprised if they give him next year, oversee the draft, and if next year isn't better, the job goes to Horton or Haley in 2014. The one who doesn't get it might be gone anyway for another gig. Pure speculation, of course.

I got the feeling from some of Urban's comments this past offseason that Haley wasn't exactly interested in coming back here as an OC. I'm not sure I want Todd as a HC either.

Personally, I'm fine with keeping Whiz. Heck, I might even extend his contract for 2 more years just to keep the media circus at bay over his future with the team. It's not like Whiz is going to be in a position to ask for the moon on an extension.

OC MUST be replaced this offseason. QB & RB Coaches too, IMO. Unfortunately, you're not going to be able to attrach anyone worthy, with the sword of Damocles dangling over Whiz.

As for Graves, I don't really care one way or another. I don't think he's picking the players. If you want to replace him with someone who will choose players, fine.

Finally, I still believe Coach Whiz is a GREAT coach. I think we're more likely to take a step backwards by replacing him, rather than focusing on the REAL problem with this team... Upgrading the OL and QB.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I refer to John Fox in reference to Whiz. It sure seems like Fox is a much better coach this year. I wonder why? He's won about 9 in a row, clinched the division, and is battling for home field with Peyton Manning as his QB. It's amazing how bad a coach he was and they couldn't wait to run him out of town after a 2-14 record in Carolina when his QB's were Jimmy Clausen, Matt Moore, and Brian St. Pierre.

 

[Totally_Red]

I refer to John Fox in reference to Whiz. It sure seems like Fox is a much better coach this year. I wonder why? He's won about 9 in a row, clinched the division, and is battling for home field with Peyton Manning as his QB. It's amazing how bad a coach he was and they couldn't wait to run him out of town after a 2-14 record in Carolina when his QB's were Jimmy Clausen, Matt Moore, and Brian St. Pierre.

Don't forget Foxy also has a real offensive coordinator. PM doesn't hurt obviously, but Mike McCoy even got a lot out of Tim Tebow last season.

 

[Capital Card]

Don't forget Foxy also has a real offensive coordinator. PM doesn't hurt obviously, but Mike McCoy even got a lot out of Tim Tebow last season.

I think Denver was a solid team last year that won in spite of Tebow. IMO, they win their division with Kolb as their QB.

We've been dealing with a TERRIBLE OL, which has made our QB situation look even worse. No QB can stay healthy for even half a season behind our OL.

Whiz and Grimm, are easy targets, but I don't think they are our real problem.

Go Cards!!!

 

[Stout]

And if so, what does it mean for the future?

Personally, I think it highlights the fact that we need to toss Whiz all the sooner...to hire Ray Horton.

Mikey B would be an absolute moron if one game changes his mind about this team, especially given that it was the defense that won the game.

This game is a good indication that this team has NOT quit on Whisenhunt. The final score does surprise me, but the fact that we played our heart out doesn't. The Whiz naysayers will spin it their way, but this franchise would be utterly moronic to fire Whiz.

This franchise would be utterly moronic to keep Whiz. His teams have had epic collapses for three straight seasons. How do you excuse that, PA?

 

[MadCardDisease]

It all depends on how the final two games against quality teams turn out.

 

[Duckjake]

I don't think this one win will make any difference. McGinnis was still fired after knocking the Vikings out of the playoffs and Denny was fired after his team finished the season 4-3 including wins over every other team in the Division.

That goofy 2006 team went 4-2 in the Division and their only other win came against...you guessed it Detroit.

 

[crisper57]

If...and this is a big IF...they finish up the season with 3 straight wins to go 7-9 and overtake STL for 3rd place in the division, Whiz keeps his job, along with Grimm and Graves.

I think they can beat Chicago at home and a 49ers team resting its starters on the road, because, let's face it, that would be a very Cardinal thing to do. This team is great at winning meaningless games late in the year.

If they don't pull off that particular miracle, at least 2-of-3 are gone (or in Graves' case, reassigned to a different post to make room for Keim).

I do think Whiz won't be back next year. That's what my gut says, despite yesterday's win.

 

[john h]

And if so, what does it mean for the future?

Personally, I think it highlights the fact that we need to toss Whiz all the sooner...to hire Ray Horton.

I think Whiz's job depends on the next two games. Our QB was barely average but what he did do was minimize his mistakes. That in itself helped us win the game. That and the defense much as usual. We play two of the worst Cardinal games I have ever seen back to back and then play an outstanding game like yesterday. Our DBs are better than most teams in the NFL and showed it. I liked the fact they had our QB making shorter throws and he made few mistakes. He is not ready for prime time NFL so we still need a QB but he did improve immensely which is not to say he played well. I could not help but cheer for the players even though it will knock us down in the draft. They were all smiles on the sideline which is good to see. Campbell continues to show what a force he is. He should be an NFL all pro IMHO. Docket showed up and our QB was on his feet most of the day. Horton was at his best and I sure hate to see him depart. There was obviously no quit in this team that I could see. I think the Bears will have their hands full next week. We still owe them one from when Dennis was here and we lost that terrible game late. I hope Whiz reminds the team it could be pay back time as we might knock the Bears out of the playoffs.

 

[john h]

And if so, what does it mean for the future?

Personally, I think it highlights the fact that we need to toss Whiz all the sooner...to hire Ray Horton.

I am one who still thinks Mr. B Sr. is still not totally out of the loop. We may all think that but this guy has run this team his way for well over half a century. Yes, his son has the title but Mr. B will most certainly be counting dollars. You cannot just make a change from being a King to a bystander in a matter of a year or so. I think any major change is run by Mr. B to this day. This would explain why his buddy Graves is still here. Michael probably got an earful after the failures of Kolb unless Mr. B gave his approval on the Kolb deal.

 

[Chainthroer]

Whatever it takes to keep Horton here is the most important decision to be made. JMO.

 

[john h]

And if so, what does it mean for the future?

Personally, I think it highlights the fact that we need to toss Whiz all the sooner...to hire Ray Horton.

I think Ray Horton is one of the best DCs in the NFL but that will not make him a great HC. He could turn out to be a magnificent HC but those are two very different jobs. It seems many teams may be after his as a HC but it want be on HC experience. I would gamble on him as our HC. What if you had a choice of Andy Reid or Ray Horton for HC then who would you take? Reid has been successful HC for longer than anyone in the NFL. Experience really does matter in any job. Both Reid and Horton will be HCs next year you can bet the house on it. But where? Funny is it not that it was probably Whiz that brought Horton to us and now we are talking about firing him and making Horton the HC?

 

[john h]

And if so, what does it mean for the future?

Personally, I think it highlights the fact that we need to toss Whiz all the sooner...to hire Ray Horton.

Michael Bidwill said last week that Whiz will not be fired this year. That is clear enough for me. He did not say he would not be fired after the season so that is still open. Also remember that Whiz has at least one more year on his contract and money does count with the Bidwills.

 

[JeffGollin]

If we had been blown out by Detroit, I think it would be a different story, but what was a decisive win vs. a respected football team should raise Wiz's survival potential to 50-50.

I agree with John (Holt). If the team decides to rest on their laurels, coasts during the final 2 games and gets blown out, I don't think it improves Wiz's chances.

I would take seriously some of the TV commentary (Ryan or Myers) which made at least a credible case that rationalizes: "If it weren't for injuries to Kolb, the OL and the 2 RB's, the Cardinals would be a legitimate playoff contender.."

If the Bidwills buy this, then Wiz's job is probably safe. But this is the NFL and you just never know.

Personally, my own priorities would be (1) Do whatever it takes to retain Horton, (2) Keep Wiz, (3) Seriously review how we evaluate talent and (4) totally overhaul our offense - from system to coaching.

Two tough decisions - (1) What to do about Wiz if it comes down to him or Horton and (2) How Russ Grimm would or not fit into a new coaching hierarchy.

All of the above must be worked out within the context of our not knowing how decisions are made or who deserves credit or blame for past decisions - & how decisions on staff are to be made right now.

 

[Cheesebeef]

If we had been blown out by Detroit, I think it would be a different story, but what was a decisive win vs. a respected football team should raise Wiz's survival potential to 50-50.

since when is a team that's only made the playoffs once in a decade and came in riding a 5 game losing streak a respected football team? That's what the Lions are.

I agree with John (Holt). If the team decides to rest on their laurels, coasts during the final 2 games and gets blown out, I don't think it improves Wiz's chances.

I would take seriously some of the TV commentary (Ryan or Myers) which made at least a credible case that rationalizes: "If it weren't for injuries to Kolb, the OL and the 2 RB's, the Cardinals would be a legitimate playoff contender.."

I woudn't. Depending on Kevin Kolb, and 2 RBs who can never stay healthy precludes any discussion of them being factors and if they were healthy we could have made the playoffs... simply because it's a fantasy that they could stay healthy. The announcers could have said "If the Cardinals had Peyton Manning, they would be a legitimate playoff contender" and it would have as much credence as the statement above. But the bottom line is they don't have Manning and Kolb and the RBs don't have bodies to withstand the NFL, so the above is completely moot one way or another.

 

[Reddog]

Michael Bidwill said last week that Whiz will not be fired this year. That is clear enough for me. He did not say he would not be fired after the season so that is still open. Also remember that Whiz has at least one more year on his contract and money does count with the Bidwills.

Assumptions: If it was really all about money to the Bidwills, they really do like Whiz as their coach, they don't want to get rid of him and he can finish the season somewhat respectably.

Then they should extend him two years and keep the team option for the additional year as it reads now for 2014. They should do it at a much more reasonable contract figure because in hindsight he was overpaid for his production after the Superbowl. They should place some conditions on him making changes to his staff and they should move or remove Graves so someone can come in and take the authority and accountability for player selection and cap management.

Not sure I would do this as I think a clean slate may be better but if the assumptions are right and Money is the driver they can stick with the "Devil They Know" and save some money.

 

[JeffGollin]

since when is a team that's only made the playoffs once in a decade and came in riding a 5 game losing streak a respected football team? That's what the Lions are.



I woudn't. Depending on Kevin Kolb, and 2 RBs who can never stay healthy precludes any discussion of them being factors and if they were healthy we could have made the playoffs... simply because it's a fantasy that they could stay healthy. The announcers could have said "If the Cardinals had Peyton Manning, they would be a legitimate playoff contender" and it would have as much credence as the statement above. But the bottom line is they don't have Manning and Kolb and the RBs don't have bodies to withstand the NFL, so the above is completely moot one way or another.

The reason I said "respected" had more to do with the overall talent-level of their roster and that the margin of those five losses were mostly (if not all) by 7 points or less. The Lions, going into yesterday's game, were considered by some people to be a better team than their record implied.

I'm not saying I agree with the announcers - only that their argument seemed plausible enough for Michael B to buy into it.

 

[BigRedFan]

Detroit actually has a worse record than ours. The offense again had a sub 200 yard game, is in distant last place between the lowly Jags. Miller and Grimm at minimum must go. Whiz should go too, but if he stays I could live with it if they replace the other too. Look what happened at Auburn, national champs to 3-9 in 2 years and the coach is gone. A down year is one thing but a completely dysfunctional offense that is last in nearly every offensive category is reason there must be a coaching change of some sort.

 

[Duckjake]

Detroit actually has a worse record than ours. The offense again had a sub 200 yard game, is in distant last place between the lowly Jags. Miller and Grimm at minimum must go. Whiz should go too, but if he stays I could live with it if they replace the other too. Look what happened at Auburn, national champs to 3-9 in 2 years and the coach is gone. A down year is one thing but a completely dysfunctional offense that is last in nearly every offensive category is reason there must be a coaching change of some sort.

I agree with this. We are way behind SF and Seattle right now with both those teams playing new QBs one a 2nd and another a 3rd round pick. What does Whisenhunt and his current staff bring to the table to catch those guys. We can't even beat the Rams. That group of coaches are responsible for us going from being ahead of both those teams to far behind. 82-3 behind. 810 yards to 419 yards behind.

If you are a supporter of CKW getting another year what makes you believe he can close that gap?