Did the Lions game save Whiz/Grimm/Graves?

[football karma]

put this in the FWIW file:

Bickley and Jurecki, based on their "discussions" with people in the Cards building:

After the season, Steve Keim will be promoted to General Manager, replacing Rod Graves

They will go to Whis and tell him some personnel power needs to be given back.

If he gives it back, he stays. No word on assistants

If he doesnt, he goes. They think Haley is the front runner to replace Whis.

 

[D-Dogg]

After the season, Steve Keim will be promoted to General Manager, replacing Rod Graves.

If they are right on just that one, it's awesome.

 

[Stout]

put this in the FWIW file:

Bickley and Jurecki, based on their "discussions" with people in the Cards building:

After the season, Steve Keim will be promoted to General Manager, replacing Rod Graves

They will go to Whis and tell him some personnel power needs to be given back.

If he gives it back, he stays. No word on assistants

If he doesnt, he goes. They think Haley is the front runner to replace Whis.

Wouldn't be enough.

 

[Cheesebeef]

put this in the FWIW file:

Bickley and Jurecki, based on their "discussions" with people in the Cards building:

After the season, Steve Keim will be promoted to General Manager, replacing Rod Graves

it just doesn't make sense that anyone (except for maybe Horton) inside this organization would get promoted after this abomination of a season. only the Cardinals would look to improve by eliminating the garbage up top and elevating the guy the garbage brought in.

 

[Superfuzz]

Wouldn't be enough.

I agree.

However, Whiz better have a short leash this time Around if he is to come back - and in that case ONLY without Graves Grimm and Miller. Any worse than 9-7 and at least 3-3 in the division in 2013 he should be gone.

However, we ARE the Cardinals, after all, and an 8-8 or 7-9 season would be rationalized away as a "partial success" because Whiz is the winningest coach we've ever had. Which frankly is like winning the Special Olympics...

 

[Cheesebeef]

I agree.

However, Whiz better have a short leash this time Around if he is to come back - and in that case ONLY without Graves Grimm and Miller. Any worse than 9-7 and at least 3-3 in the division in 2013 he should be gone.

However, we ARE the Cardinals, after all, and an 8-8 or 7-9 season would be rationalized away as a "partial success" because Whiz is the winningest coach we've ever had. Which frankly is like winning the Special Olympics...

bingo. no other team in the league judges success by "non-losing" seasons. The very phrase "non-losing" implies a loser mentality. Winning is all that matters and in 6 years, Wiz has had 2 winning seasons. 2. that's not good enough.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I'd rather stick with Whiz than hire headcase Haley.

 

[LarryStalling]

I am going to be sick if they keep Whiz.

 

[Proteus]

If they are right on just that one, it's awesome.

How do we know Keim isn't part of the problem in the front office though?

 

[Stout]

I am going to be sick if they keep Whiz.

Me too. It's the Cards, though, so who knows what in the heck they'll do. This is Mikey B's big test. Will we be the Same Old Cards, or will we be run like a professional football team? We'll see, and soon.

 

[Cheesebeef]

How do we know Keim isn't part of the problem in the front office though?

this is the question i keep asking myself. The guy was here for the last couple years, right? when we've had disasterous FA signings and relatively underwhelming drafts (save PP who was a no-brainer that even we couldn't screw up).

what has he done to deserve a promotion?

 

[kerouac9]

this is the question i keep asking myself. The guy was here for the last couple years, right? when we've had disasterous FA signings and relatively underwhelming drafts (save PP who was a no-brainer that even we couldn't screw up).

what has he done to deserve a promotion?

The reports are that he's been the voice of dissent on every major mistake that the Cards front office has made.

Wanted AP over Levi Brown.
Wanted Jay Cutler over Matt Leinart.
...
There was another one, but I don't remember what it was. I think the list is on the PFW thread about Haley being the top candidate to replace Whis.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The reports are that he's been the voice of dissent on every major mistake that the Cards front office has made.

Wanted AP over Levi Brown.
Wanted Jay Cutler over Matt Leinart.
...
There was another one, but I don't remember what it was. I think the list is on the PFW thread about Haley being the top candidate to replace Whis.

that makes me feel a little better about him if true.

 

[Totally_Red]

put this in the FWIW file:

Bickley and Jurecki, based on their "discussions" with people in the Cards building:

After the season, Steve Keim will be promoted to General Manager, replacing Rod Graves

They will go to Whis and tell him some personnel power needs to be given back.

If he gives it back, he stays. No word on assistants

If he doesnt, he goes. They think Haley is the front runner to replace Whis.

All of that sounds good, especially the part about relinquishing some personnel power. If Steve Keim gets that power, it's a positive IMO.

I still think offensive coaching changes need to be part of the package. At very least, Russ Grimm should be demoted from Assistant Head Coach and Ray Horton should be promoted to that position. Presumably if Whis agrees to management's request(s) he gets a one-year extension so he's not a lame duck. That's what the Giants did with Tom Coughlin a few years back. I still think a lot is still up the air, pending how the Cardinals play the final two weeks.

 

[WildBB]

this is the question i keep asking myself. The guy was here for the last couple years, right? when we've had disasterous FA signings and relatively underwhelming drafts (save PP who was a no-brainer that even we couldn't screw up).

what has he done to deserve a promotion?

Teams don't let value just escape. When they do like Dansby and Rolle teams DRASTICALLY overpay. Have you seen the G-nats secondary this yr? Miami's OK on D but he's not making a difference there.

Campbell and Washington underwhelming?! Acho and Massey 4th Rounders and starters not underperforming now.

They have one basic problem that REALLY needs addressed under center at this point. Have for three years now. When it's addressed they compete and compete very well.

The roster is set up for the season(s) not just the season. They're still a young team.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Teams don't let value just escape. When they do like Dansby and Rolle teams DRASTICALLY overpay. Have you seen the G-nats secondary this yr? Miami's OK on D but he's not making a difference there.

Campbell and Washington underwhelming?! Acho and Massey 4th Rounders and starters not underperforming now.

They have one basic problem that REALLY needs addressed under center at this point. Have for three years now. When it's addressed they compete and compete very well.

The roster is set up for the season(s) not just the season. They're still a young team.

Dansby and Rolle are both having very good years. It's not really a big deal since the Cards defense is their strength but those two are playing at a high level.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Teams don't let value just escape. When they do like Dansby and Rolle teams DRASTICALLY overpay. Have you seen the G-nats secondary this yr? Miami's OK on D but he's not making a difference there.

Campbell and Washington underwhelming?! Acho and Massey 4th Rounders and starters not underperforming now.

you did see I said the last COUPLE years, right? Campbell was drafted 5 years ago, Washington was drafted 3 years ago and Acho and Massey are both decent players at the point. That's basically THREE players we've drafted in the last two years and you basically noted a total of 5 players drafted over the last FIVE.

They have one basic problem that REALLY needs addressed under center at this point. Have for three years now. When it's addressed they compete and compete very well.

so, you're under the delusion that the O-line is fine, also, huh? with a dead-last rushing game? I just don't get how some of y'all convince yourselves of these things.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

so, you're under the delusion that the O-line is fine, also, huh? with a dead-last rushing game? I just don't get how some of y'all convince yourselves of these things.

I think part of that is that defenses correctly have no fear of our passing game so all they have to do is load up against the run. I think we need to add a piece or two on the line but I feel that even with the same exact offensive line if we had good QB play we'd be a wild card contender right now.

 

[vinnymac]

you did see I said the last COUPLE years, right? Campbell was drafted 5 years ago, Washington was drafted 3 years ago and Acho and Massey are both decent players at the point. That's basically THREE players we've drafted in the last two years and you basically noted a total of 5 players drafted over the last FIVE.



so, you're under the delusion that the O-line is fine, also, huh? with a dead-last rushing game? I just don't get how some of y'all convince yourselves of these things.

I agree with you. The o-line needs to be fix. The QB position needs to be fix. Offensive coaching needs to be fix. People who are scouting QB needs to be fix. People who keep on drafting injury prone RB needs to be fix.

 

[Totally_Red]

I think part of that is that defenses correctly have no fear of our passing game so all they have to do is load up against the run. I think we need to add a piece or two on the line but I feel that even with the same exact offensive line if we had good QB play we'd be a wild card contender right now.

But I don't think we can or will get good quarterback play with THIS offensive line. When a quarterback has two seconds to get the ball off and defenses don't fear play action because your running game is non-existent, the offensive line isn't good enough in my opinion. That's why I hope we address the o-line and not quarterback with our first-rounder.

 

[Duckjake]

I think part of that is that defenses correctly have no fear of our passing game so all they have to do is load up against the run. I think we need to add a piece or two on the line but I feel that even with the same exact offensive line if we had good QB play we'd be a wild card contender right now.

I don't know. It looks to me like the Cards have been reduced to throwing the ball sideways or on 2 yard routes because they can't protect the Qb.

We're averaging 8.9 yards per completion. Last year it was 11.6. 2010 it was 10.2. Both Seattle and SF are over 11. Even the Jaguars are over 10.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

But I don't think we can or will get good quarterback play with THIS offensive line. When a quarterback has two seconds to get the ball off and defenses don't fear play action because your running game is non-existent, the offensive line isn't good enough in my opinion. That's why I hope we address the o-line and not quarterback with our first-rounder.

The offensive line has protected marginally enough to produce since backpedaling Kolb got hurt. Kolb is the culprit for a good chunk of the line's woes.

2012:
Kolb - sacked every 7 passing attempts
Skelton - sacked every 13.5 pass attempts
Lindley - sacked every 14 pass attempts

2011:
Kolb - sacked every 8.5 attemps
Skelton - sacked every 13.5 attempts


Let's start to accept reality here.