Do we have as much talent as we think?

[New Mexico]

I'm beginnig to wonder. I keep hearing that we're loaded on defense, and have great skill players on offense. I agree that Q and Fitz are worldbeaters, but who else is a great player? Edge? Pope? Leinart (not yet, anyway)? Hayes? Dansby? Dockett? Are any of these guys really great?

My point is that if we have as much talent as I keep hearing about, it would overcome medicore coaching.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

Yes we do.

 

[Duckjake]

I'm beginnig to wonder. I keep hearing that we're loaded on defense, and have great skill players on offense. I agree that Q and Fitz are worldbeaters, but who else is a great player? Edge? Pope? Leinart (not yet, anyway)? Hayes? Dansby? Dockett? Are any of these guys really great?

My point is that if we have as much talent as I keep hearing about, it would overcome medicore coaching.

According to several posters on this board you do not need to be able to coach to win if you have top talent. So if that's true the Cards must not have anywhere near the talent we thought they did.

 

[phillycard]

After yesterday, I'd be hard pressed to say yes. But honestly we do have talent. In years past, most of our starters would be deep subs for most teams. Now I think it's just a matter of depth. We need to shore that up asap if we are to remain competitive for years to come. That's where bad teams turn the corner IMO.

 

[Russ Smith]

We're not the most talented but we're not in the bottom of the pack either.

As bad as Mac was, he never had close to this much talent and he won 7 games in a season once.

Green's schemes are ridiculous, he relies on simply lining up and beating you 1 on 1, that's his entire philosophy near as I can tell, everyone beat their man and we'll win. It worked in Minnesota, it isn't working here. Did anybody hear not realize Burgess would eat Ross alive if it was 1 on 1?

Did anybody here expect that Rolle would be able to cover Moss? That giving Moss a 12 yard cushion on 3rd and 5 is a good idea etc? Pendergast is doing what he can to hide some weaknesses on defense but the Raiders obviously watched the Bears game and figured out if you don't force the ball downfield, the underneath will be open all day. We're the only team in the NFL that doesn't adjust, we just keep doing the same thing assuming next time it will work.

 

[JC_AZ]

All we need are PROFESSIONAL LEVEL O-LINEMEN AND A SPEED DB TO BE CLOSE...then of course we could use a decent special teams strategy, a new kicker, a new punter...offer Edge (and his ME ME ME attitude) in a trade for some REAL O-LINEMEN, find a REAL speed WR that could actually PRETEND we were going to throw downfield, and OC that watches as other teams move down the field with play-action and using TE's...other than that...we are close.

 

[BACH]

We're not the most talented but we're not in the bottom of the pack either.

As bad as Mac was, he never had close to this much talent and he won 7 games in a season once.

Green's schemes are ridiculous, he relies on simply lining up and beating you 1 on 1, that's his entire philosophy near as I can tell, everyone beat their man and we'll win. It worked in Minnesota, it isn't working here. Did anybody hear not realize Burgess would eat Ross alive if it was 1 on 1?

Did anybody here expect that Rolle would be able to cover Moss? That giving Moss a 12 yard cushion on 3rd and 5 is a good idea etc? Pendergast is doing what he can to hide some weaknesses on defense but the Raiders obviously watched the Bears game and figured out if you don't force the ball downfield, the underneath will be open all day. We're the only team in the NFL that doesn't adjust, we just keep doing the same thing assuming next time it will work.

I agree. The question on talent is tricky. We are probably in the top 3 in the NFL in terms of number of Elite NFL players, BUT we also have more holes than the teams that we like to compare ourselves to. Ross, Liewinski, Huff, Griffith and Wakefield/Pope(at this point)/Bergen wouldn't start on those teams.

Play-calling and coaching is still the biggest problem. If the team had a coach, who the players followed, then this team should be able to be around .500 (7-9 wins).

 

[seesred]

We have play making talent. Our biggest problem is the same one that left training camp with a big question mark...This terrible O-line. Changing every week has made it worse and continue playing Ross and not moving big to guard is why Green should go.

GBR
40

 

[Shane]

We have play making talent. Our biggest problem is the same one that left training camp with a big question mark...This terrible O-line. Changing every week has made it worse and continue playing Ross and not moving big to guard is why Green should go.

GBR
40

First you say the constant change is the problem. Then you say you want us to change two more positions?

 

[dreamcastrocks]

First you say the constant change is the problem. Then you say you want us to change two more positions?

That is funny, but he does have a point though. Moving Big to guard should have happened at least a year ago, maybe longer.

 

[NEZCardsfan]

I think as fans....we badly over estimated our talent.

 

[AZ Shocker]

My opinion is we have good "skill player" talent (Leinart, Edge, Boldin, Fitz, etc.) but horrible "non-skill player talent" (o-line).

If we had a speedster at wide-out who burn people once a game for a deep td pass...oh my goodness...Boldin and Fitz would be in heaven. They would be even MORE better. lol

Mainly the coaching has been a terrible problem. Penalties, shuffling linemen, a non-existent 2 minute drill, allowing Pendrgast to play his db's 10 yards off the ball, and NOT blitzing inexperienced qb's (Walter).

Head coaches should coach on the talent on the field, not a particular system. Green was close, but his fat o-linemen approach went out of style after Dallas last Super Bowl years ago. They are too slow Denny!

 

[abomb]

IMO;

+3 is top 10 at the position talent wise
+2 is much better than average
+1 is better than Average
0 is NFL Average
-1 is worse than average
-2 is much worse than average
-3 - player would be hard pressed to start elsewhere

QB Leinart +1 from what he has shown so far
RB James +2
WR Boldin +3
WR Fitz +2
TE Bergen/Pope -1
OT Ross -2
OG Liwinski -1
C Lecky -1
OG Wells -1
OT Davis -1

K Rackers 0
P Player -1 (based on his stats)

DE Berry +1
DT Watson +1 (despite his experience)
DT Dockett +2
DE Okefor +1

LB Hayes 0
LB Dansby 0
LB Huff -1

CB Rolle -1
CB Green 0
SS Wilson +3
FS Griffith -1

Fire away.

 

[Shogun]

We have some top talent, but after the difference after them is steep. We don't really have any role players on this team.

 

[Brewster10]

I think Hayes is worthy of a +1, as is Dansby...

Okeafor is an average player... Berry a +1, Watson 0, Dockett +1...

I think the secondary is where we have the most average or below average players...

Which goes in line with what everyone has been sayin about drafting a DB high in this years draft...

As for offense...

Leinart is a 0.... James a +2... Boldin and Fitz = +3

Davis is a 0, Ross -2, Wells -1, Leckey -1, Liewinski -2, Step -3

The thing is that the horrific Oline, turns the skill players into average players...

 

[john h]

I'm beginnig to wonder. I keep hearing that we're loaded on defense, and have great skill players on offense. I agree that Q and Fitz are worldbeaters, but who else is a great player? Edge? Pope? Leinart (not yet, anyway)? Hayes? Dansby? Dockett? Are any of these guys really great?

My point is that if we have as much talent as I keep hearing about, it would overcome medicore coaching.

I really do think we have at least as much talent as we think. I think our problems are with the coaching staff, lack of a GM, and somehthing we can do nothing about "Ownership".

 

[CardinalChris]

We have some top talent, but after the difference after them is steep. We don't really have any role players on this team.

We have talent, then a drop off, then young guys who can go either way. We forget how young this team is. The talent is there to win more than 1 game out of 7.

 

[JPlay]

Okeafor, Huff, and all of the lineman are below average. Griffith has played well with interceptions the last two games, but is average or below. Danby is above average. Hayes is average. Leinart is not average. Femi is below average.

 

[Duckjake]

We have talent, then a drop off, then young guys who can go either way. We forget how young this team is. The talent is there to win more than 1 game out of 7.

How young is it? Of the current starters the majority are now in at least their 3rd year. At the start of the season only Rolle was starting from the last two drafts.

 

[JeffGollin]

Define "talent."

Physically (with the exception of offensive line personnel - none of whom even deserve a Scouts Inc. write up) we are extremely talented everywhere.

But we're 1 & 6 - which means that, when you factor in all the intangibles, we lack talent.

As a team, we lack mental toughness and mental alertness. And, based on current performance, our Football IQ seems to hover somewhere between a door-knob and a Dumpster. (The Raiders seemed to be a step ahead of us the entire game and seemed to know our offensive and defensive playbooks better than we did. Did our guys watch any film on the Raiders last week?)

How much of this stems from the makeup of individual players we've brought in and how much stems from lack of leadership, poor teaching and poor preparation is up for debate.

That's how I see it.

 

[CardinalChris]

How young is it? Of the current starters the majority are now in at least their 3rd year. At the start of the season only Rolle was starting from the last two drafts.

Just off of the top of my head we have very few over 30 players. I bet we are one of the 5 youngest teams in the NFL.

 

[Duckjake]

Just off of the top of my head we have very few over 30 players. I bet we are one of the 5 youngest teams in the NFL.

Maybe in age but not experience.

Cardinal draftees starting:

2001 - LDavis, AWilson (6th season in NFL)
2002 - None
2003 - Hayes,Boldin,Wells (BJohnson) (4th)
2004 - Fitz,Dansby,Dockett,Leckey (ASmith)(Step) (3rd)

2005 - Rolle, Green (Arrington)
2006 - Leinart,Watson (Pope)

 

[NEZCardsfan]

IMO;

+3 is top 10 at the position talent wise
+2 is much better than average
+1 is better than Average
0 is NFL Average
-1 is worse than average
-2 is much worse than average
-3 - player would be hard pressed to start elsewhere

QB Leinart +1 from what he has shown so far
RB James +2
WR Boldin +3
WR Fitz +2
TE Bergen/Pope -1
OT Ross -2
OG Liwinski -1
C Lecky -1
OG Wells -1
OT Davis -1

K Rackers 0
P Player -1 (based on his stats)

DE Berry +1
DT Watson +1 (despite his experience)
DT Dockett +2
DE Okefor +1

LB Hayes 0
LB Dansby 0
LB Huff -1

CB Rolle -1
CB Green 0
SS Wilson +3
FS Griffith -1

Fire away.

I agree with most of this. Now can you rate the coaching?? I think every single one of these guys, sans Boldin and Leinart are underachieving.

 

[CardinalChris]

Experience? Darling and griffith are the only players with over 10 years experience in the NFL (Warner is tricky because he started late). By comparison the rest of our division looks like this

Seattle - 5 players
San Francisco - 6 players
Rams - 13 players

It takes 3-5 years to decide what type of a player you have on your hands. This is a young team. Our average experience on the roster is under 4 years.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

When you compare us to other teams, there is plenty of pure talent to be winning. Talent is nothing without the brains to go along with it. The Cards just aren't very mentally tough. That's why there is always dumb penalties and blown assignments. Look at Rackers. Physically,he's one of the most talented in the game but in pressure situations he tightens up. Go out and watch Vinatieri and Rackers kick. I'll bet Rackers has alot more natural talent but Vinatieri will be going to the HOF because he's mentally strong.The problem is you get that winning attitude, alot of times, just by winning. The Cards are mentally weak so by losing it just makes matters worse. It showed,big time,Sunday. When Rackers missed that first FG the team was done.