Do we really need to replace our backs?

[CardFan67]

Reggie Bush isn't Hype, but he wouldn't have had the same success in the Big 12, Big 10 or SEC

oh brother...

in the 70's maybe...

 

[Russ Smith]

Is Gallery having problems? I don't follow the Raiders but I haven't heard anything about RG this year(no news is good news?).

Gallery is a bust IMHO. They drafted him to be the LT for the next 10 years, huge contract, and couldn't beat out Barry Sims at LT his rookie year. Comes back this past year and again, can't beat out Barry Sims.

He may be handed the job next year Sims is apparently talking retirement, and may be a cap casualty anyways.

 

[JeffGollin]

he's the next Pace/Jones/Ogden. Wouldn't that be a good guy to draft? Didn't we hear that about Robert Gallery and Leonard Davis?
Nope. There was a difference.

Pace, Jones and Ogden were considered pure pass blockers. Gallery was considered a run blocking mauler, and Leonard a very big, strong dude expected to develop into an all-purpose (run block/pass block) mode.

The one time I took a good look at Ferguson, what impressed me was that he was one of those tall, lean flat-ab guys. That plus his quick feet and solid technique when he squared up to handle the edge. (Kind of like Pace and Ogden).

With guys with Ferguson's profile he only thing you worry about is whether or not he'll be too "finessy" (i.e. the problem Barron is said to have in StL). So far, there's nothing to indicate that.

I also think Ferguson isn't the only OT who could wind up among the Top 10 picks. Keep your eye on McNeal from Auburn and also his line mate Reddick if he's eligble. I wouldn't be too concerned over Reddick getting ejected in the Bowl game - seemed like a bogus call and just proves he's feisty. (Note - Auburn has had a great running attack across 2 or 3 sets of graduating RB's. Logically, its O-line played a part).

 

[Faithful]

MY GOD, How long have you followed this team.

You could get any f'n back...sorry for the f'n, but learn people....

drafted, Garrison Hearst, Thomas Jones, brought in Adrien Murrell and others.


The LINE IS THE PROBLEM. Why do you think any fool can run in Denver...it's not the air...it's the offensive line.

STOP TALKING ABOUT GETTING ANOTHER RB.

ONLY RETARDS THINK THE RUNNING GAME IS MADE BY THE RB....it's made by the OFFENSIVE LINE.

I agree with the above

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

ONLY RETARDS THINK THE RUNNING GAME IS MADE BY THE RB....it's made by the OFFENSIVE LINE.

That's not true. Look at the Dolphins. No massive overhaul from last year's supposedly horrible offensive line and all of a sudden they're one of the best rushing teams in the NFL. Was that because they promoted a second year player in Vernon Carey to RT or because they had Ricky Williams and Ronnie Brown running the ball instead of Lamar Gordon and Travis Minor?

Yea, Shipp's 9 TD's in 226 touches in 2002 were actually being done by someone else.

You know who else scored that many touchdowns in 2002? James Mungro, Stacey Mack, Moe Williams, Charlie Garner, Antowain Smith, and Garison Hearst. You want to give those guys $2 million bucks next year?

The sooner the organization realizes Marcel Shipp will never be an elite RB no matter who's blocking for him the better off we're going to be. There's really nothing he does great as a running back other than trying hard which doesn't cut it when you're only a mediocre talent with injury problems.

 

[Russ Smith]

That's not true. Look at the Dolphins. No massive overhaul from last year's supposedly horrible offensive line and all of a sudden they're one of the best rushing teams in the NFL. Was that because they promoted a second year player in Vernon Carey to RT or because they had Ricky Williams and Ronnie Brown running the ball instead of Lamar Gordon and Travis Minor?


.

They also hired Hudson Hauck this year the same guy who turned around the Chargers OL, and the guy who coached the Cowboys OL in the mid 90's

RB's made a big difference, as did the coaching.

 

[NEZCardsfan]

They also hired Hudson Hauck this year the same guy who turned around the Chargers OL, and the guy who coached the Cowboys OL in the mid 90's

RB's made a big difference, as did the coaching.

Russ, are you telling me that there is more to running the football than a solid O-Line??

 

[Savage58]

LenDale White will be a feature back.....

Granted I stopped reading this thread after 3 pages of folks saying White is a "part-time back". That's ridiculous, the people saying this haven't watched him this season, maybe the Rose Bowl game but that must've been it. He's a HORSE, a S. Alexander type, is he going to catch 40 balls out of the backfield a season, doubtful, but he's a feature back in the NFL imo. He's got the instincts, and balance to run between the tackles, enough speed to break it deep, not superstar speed, but enough. He can carry the load without a doubt, he just never got that opportunity, as he's been in Bush's shadow.

Please stop with this "he's a part-time back" that's such crap, it wreaks of people just blabbering.

If he's smart he'll hire a personal trainer/speed coach/dietition and get bigger/faster/stronger for the combine. I'm sure an agent will get him in touch with those types of people, and he'll a 1st round pick IMO. He's been great this entire season, and very good last year and he sure didn't suck as a frosh either.

For the lazy or unwilling stats below.

YEAR ATT YDS AVG LNG TD REC YDS AVG LNG TD FUM LST
2003 141 754 5.3 66 13 6 15 2.5 10 1 0 0
2004 203 1103 5.4 54 15 11 97 8.8 22 2 0 0
2005 197 1302 6.6 46 24 14 219 15.6 49 2 0 0

Personally I don't think he'll be available for us at #10, but if he is I'd be more inclined to pick him, over DeAngello or Maroney.

He's a full time back folks.

 

[Savage58]

There's alot more to the running game than JUST the O line. There is the threat of the pass, we have that one finally woot! But with a good running back with the instincts and vision to "setup" blocks, that makes the O line better.

I can't believe I'm going to give props to a former Cowboy but look what E. Smith did for our running game and he was nowhere near his former self. A RB has just as much to do with opening up holes in the running game as the O Line and can impact it with instinct and vision.

Our O line does need alot of help I agree with everyone on that, but it's not the ONLY way to upgrade our offense, like many here have posted. I'd also agree with many who would like to upgrade via Free Agency other than pick an lineman high in the 1st round. Lets get the playmakers in the high rounds and then find those gem lineman in FA and later in the draft, unless you see an O. Pace or Ogden in the draft, which there isn't in this draft IMO.

BRING ON THE OFFSEASON!!

 

[Duckjake]

They also hired Hudson Hauck this year the same guy who turned around the Chargers OL, and the guy who coached the Cowboys OL in the mid 90's

RB's made a big difference, as did the coaching.

Didn't Bruce Willis play him in a movie a couple of years ago?

 

[Russ Smith]

Didn't Bruce Willis play him in a movie a couple of years ago?

yes with Danny Aiello. One of my guilty pleasure movies, I don't know why it was so hated, if you don't take it seriously it's amusing.

 

[Redrage]

Every position is upgradable when superior talent is readily available. With the backs that are available in FA and the draft I'd hope they would unfuse new talent.

 

[moklerman]

yes with Danny Aiello. One of my guilty pleasure movies, I don't know why it was so hated, if you don't take it seriously it's amusing.

I think Willis was being black-balled to some extent by Hollywood since he backed out of the Die Hard sequel to work on Hudson Hawk. I've always thought it was a light-hearted, action/comedy that didn't deserve the horrible reviews it received. It seems like critics were slamming it when it wasn't supposed to be taken too seriously. Actually, it's very reminiscent of the Da Vinci Code in some ways. Not that that makes it good or bad, just kind of funny that the movie touched on a lot of the theme that was prevelant in Brown's book.

 

[duckfallas]

I hope Shipp never plays a game for us again. Personally, he seems like a nice guy.

But you hit the nail on the head.....the guy has no sense of the endzone whatsoever. In Indy, watching him get stuffed time after time, that was the final straw for me. I don't even think you could have blamed our line, an NFL RB has to figure out how to fall forward into the endzone.

Exactly. I like Shipp too but he had his chance and he couldn't score one TD this past season. Arrington is a much better goal line back than Shipp. As the season wore on, he was the better back period.

 

[Russ Smith]

Exactly. I like Shipp too but he had his chance and he couldn't score one TD this past season. Arrington is a much better goal line back than Shipp. As the season wore on, he was the better back period.

I think it's going to be an interesting offseason for both guys. I read a story over Xmas break in either the Sacramento Bee or Oakland Trib by a writer who covered JJ in college and was updating his struggles this year.

He then related a story from the lockerroom after the Washington game that he apparently got from talking to Arizona reporters and people around the team. JJ was as usual very quiet, answered a few questions, said no he didn't think he should have lowered his shoulder to go into Taylor(wrong answer JJ).

Meanwhile in a nearby locker Shipp with reporters watching motioned in JJ's direction, then pointed at his own heart and said "he's got none." As JJ left the lockerroom Shipp loudly started saying that in the NFL you have to fight for every yard. When a reporter asked him to confirm he was talking about JJ he said no he wasn't.

I actually semi confirmed both halves of that. Bordow wrote about the latter part the fighting for yardage comment, and he referred to the no heart comment but attributed it to "a Cardinal player." I then found a Washington writer that had named Shipp as that Cardinal player.

The writer of this story then said in talking to people it turns out this wasn't a one time event, that Shipp had been telling reporters all year JJ wasn't tough enough and that's why teammates preferred Shipp. That was in fact why the writers were all talking to Shipp they knew JJ wouldn't say much and figured Shipp would probably say something worth quoting.

I think an interesting offseason for both. JJ clearly has to step up and prove to his teammates he is tough enough. And Shipp might find himself in an interesting situation having to explain was he being honest, or was he being divisive?

The writer had a clear bias towards JJ from college but he did say it's clear JJ has a lot to prove to teammates and the organization and that he's already begun offseason workouts, he realizes people are calling him a bust, and he's working hard to make sure that doesn't happen next year.

 

[duckfallas]

JJ looked gun shy after that hit Roy Williams laid on him in the preseason. If he wants to play RB in the NFL, he better get used to getting lit up like that.

If that locker room story is true, Shipp should be ashamed after what he did at the goal line this season. At least JJ scored a rushing TD.

 

[Russ Smith]

JJ looked gun shy after that hit Roy Williams laid on him in the preseason. If he wants to play RB in the NFL, he better get used to getting lit up like that.

If that locker room story is true, Shipp should be ashamed after what he did at the goal line this season. At least JJ scored a rushing TD.

if I hadn't found 2 separate references to it I would be inclined to think it didn't happen. But then to be honest, I don't know how unusual it is? Shipp is fighting JJ for the job, it's clear that JJ was having an issue with not running tough enough, I'm not sure that a lot of players in that situation wouldn't use that to their advantage.

Here's the Bordow reference to half the story: http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/index.php?sty=55032

As Arrington tried to leave the locker room following Arizona’s 17-13 loss Sunday he was surrounded by a group of reporters. He didn’t say much. But Marcel Shipp did. "You have to go out there and fight as hard as you can to get to the first-down marker," Shipp said. Shipp wasn’t criticizing Arrington.

Just stating a fact. Soft doesn’t play in the NFL. It gets you beat. It gets you hurt. It gets you labeled. No heart. That was the knife thrown at Arrington Sunday. In the press box, in the stands and most notably, inside the Cardinals’ locker room. It’s one thing to get stopped short on a fourth-and-2 at the Redskins’ 29-yard line with 2:09 left and the game on the line.


The no heart comment came from a story in a Washington paper and that's the only place I found that actually said Shipp made the comment. Like I said, offseason with a lot to prove for both guys, clearly JJ has to prove he's tough enough, and Shipp has to prove he's not too slow.

 

[duckfallas]

No question both have a lot of proving to do but Shipp has had his chance. I can see him and the Cards parting ways. JJ gets another shot since he is a rookie.

I'm looking forward to Redmond coming back as I think he would have done better than Arrington this season. Anyone know how his rehab is doing?

 

[Pariah]

I've always thought it was a light-hearted, action/comedy that didn't deserve the horrible reviews it received.

I saw it when it first came out and found it almost unwatchable. For years I claimed it was the worst movie I ever saw.

Could be that I was young and just didn't "get it," though.

 

[Russ Smith]

No question both have a lot of proving to do but Shipp has had his chance. I can see him and the Cards parting ways. JJ gets another shot since he is a rookie.

I'm looking forward to Redmond coming back as I think he would have done better than Arrington this season. Anyone know how his rehab is doing?

I think Shipp has too big of a contract and that's a big problem given how he played this year. I'm just curious whether this situation with Arrington reflects how the whole team feels about JJ(which would be very bad for JJ) or if Shipp just realized he was losing PT to JJ and was doing whatever he could to hang on to his job?

Shipp is so popular with fans, apparently teammates, and even Green called him his guy, but he does make too much money he's going to have to take a paycut in all likelihood.

I agree JJ gets another shot, he's got the talent but has to show he's tough enough.

Redmond only topped 3.3 YPC once in his career, last year in only 21 carries with Oakland. JJ averaged 3.3 this year, I think it's unlikely JR would have done better, would have run harder, but I think he'd have had the same problems all our RB's did, it's hard to run with unblocked defenders in the backfield at full speed right after you take the handoff.

 

[Pariah]

Redmond only topped 3.3 YPC once in his career, last year in only 21 carries with Oakland. JJ averaged 3.3 this year, I think it's unlikely JR would have done better, would have run harder, but I think he'd have had the same problems all our RB's did, it's hard to run with unblocked defenders in the backfield at full speed right after you take the handoff.

Redmond would have been interesting this year. I think he probably would have been the best out of the bunch, too. He's sort of the happy medium between Arrington and Shipp. He's got the veteran savvy to recognize the holes and he knows how to get to it, he's faster than Shipp (duh), but not as fast as Arrington. I think his experience combined with more athetisismwould have served him well (just as Emmitt's served him despite his rapidly aging body).

 

[Russ Smith]

Redmond would have been interesting this year. I think he probably would have been the best out of the bunch, too. He's sort of the happy medium between Arrington and Shipp. He's got the veteran savvy to recognize the holes and he knows how to get to it, he's faster than Shipp (duh), but not as fast as Arrington. I think his experience combined with more athetisismwould have served him well (just as Emmitt's served him despite his rapidly aging body).

He definitely would have helped in the return game.

I still think Green should have used JJ on KO returns. He used him on KO and punt coverage and I'm fairly certain that was specifically to try and toughen him up, lot of contact on special teams. With KO returns you find out pretty quickly if a guy can do it or not, a lot of really good RB's and WR's have completely failed in kick returns because it's a whole different animal trying to return a kick with 10 guys running at you full speed. But it would have been another way to get JJ's speed into play, and if he couldn't do it, go back to what you started with.

I always remember how bad Boston was on punt returns his rookie year, kept dropping the punt. and even Boldin wasn't exactly effective returning punts, took too many chances, had the big fumble against detroit, and then went the opposite way fair catching everything.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Meanwhile in a nearby locker Shipp with reporters watching motioned in JJ's direction, then pointed at his own heart and said "he's got none." As JJ left the lockerroom Shipp loudly started saying that in the NFL you have to fight for every yard. When a reporter asked him to confirm he was talking about JJ he said no he wasn't.

If I was Arrington I would have started talking about talent and the motioned in Shipp's direction and said "he's got none." Then I would've pointed out my higher YPC and the fact that I've actually scored a touchdown this decade. Shipp has no room to criticize anybody after the year he had.

 

[Pariah]

If I was Arrington I would have started talking about talent and the motioned in Shipp's direction and said "he's got none." Then I would've pointed out my higher YPC and the fact that I've actually scored a touchdown this decade. Shipp has no room to criticize anybody after the year he had.

If Shipp really said it, then I think it's a bigger problem than Shipp just running his mouth--it's probably a lockerroom-wide sentiment. Which may also point to it being true. Seems in the NFL, the cliche "where there's smoke, there's fire" seems to be true more often than not.

 

[Russ Smith]

If Shipp really said it, then I think it's a bigger problem than Shipp just running his mouth--it's probably a lockerroom-wide sentiment. Which may also point to it being true. Seems in the NFL, the cliche "where there's smoke, there's fire" seems to be true more often than not.

Since I posted the original I should note that I was told today by Darren Urban that this incident did NOT happen as reported. He said he thinks someone took Bordow's story(the part I put in bold) and twisted it around in the Washington(actually Virginia) paper, and then the one I read in the Oakland or Sacramento paper, took that story and twisted it even more.

He said Shipp went out of his way to NOT criticize JJ for the play and he doesn't know where the Bay Area writer came up with the angle that shipp had done this on purpose. makes you wonder aside from players and coaches who else is in the lockerroom at that time, probably not the front office guys?

He said the no heart comment was NOT made by a player.