Do we really want more prospects?

[Travis Bickle]

I think some people--myself included--get so wrapped up in accumulating young talent that we forget the whole point--competing for a championship. Look at what happened to JJ--he didn't play well at all until he got a chance to play. What if we got lucky and had the number one pick and drafted Dwight Howard? We'd have three excellent young prospects at the 4/5--Howard, Stoudemire, and Lampe (not to mention Zarko, who can play the 4, and Jake, who isn't a prospect but is rounding himself into a decent starting center/good backup, and needs to keep getting minutes). One of Lampe/Howard is going to sit on the bench all year and probably the next few because there simply aren't enough minutes to play all of the young guys, and it won't do that player (or the Suns) much good, especially in the short term.

The Suns already have good-to-great prospects under 22 at every position--Barbosa, Vujanic, JJ, Zarko, Amare, Lampe, etc... What good would it do to add another sg or pf to the mix if he didn't play and develop? Josh Smith would never play, unless he knocked Zarko out of the rotation. Wayne Simien or Channing Frye would never play, unless he bumped Lampe out of the rotation. Igouadala would never play, unless he bumped CJ and Vujanic out of the rotation (although that might not be such a bad thing).

That being said, suppose the Suns end up with picks 10 (ours)and 14 (NY or CLE). Would you be disappointed if they traded away both just to dump Jahidi's contract to get to $13 million under the cap? I think it might work perfectly. We're already adding two lottery-type picks next year, if you consider next year as Lampe's and Vujanic's first. With the $13 million, we could get a couple veterans who would contribute a hell of a lot more than a couple 19 year olds. Think of adding Kurt Thomas (to back up the 4/5) and Brent Barry (to start in the backcourt w/ JJ or be the 6th man) to the young talent we've already accumulated. That's not all that unrealistic. I think we'd be a hell of a lot better now and in the future than if we keep those picks and draft young potential.

That being said, if we have a chance to draft Okafor, we'd be nuts not to because I think he's ready to contribute at the 4/5 right away.

 

[Chaplin]

I think it's useless to spend all our money on players that won't be around by the time we're actually competing for a championship.

 

[Joe Mama]

I agree Chap. I mean it's going to be tough for a completely youthful team to get far in this Western Conference, but I'm not in favor of giving the money to older players until the Suns are genuine contenders. I'm also not very excited about giving away much of anything to get rid of Jahidi White. Unless the Phoenix Suns can find a legitimate starting center I like having white on the roster. Next year will be the last year of his contract. He will be a very tradable commodity.

Joe Mama

 

[Goldfield]

Originally posted by Chaplin
I think it's useless to spend all our money on players that won't be around by the time we're actually competing for a championship.

I think its usless to keep drafting young guys when we have abunch of them.

We keep saying 3-4 more years, and bye then half our guys will be other teams because they are gunna want big contracts.


There is no reason Amare Shawn & JJ canot compete if they get some veteran help like a shot blocker in Camby. Add in a Oakfor and we would be a very good team. JMO

 

[slinslin]

I wouldn't mind if the Suns traded say the Cavs pick back to Cleveland for someone who has some experience but is still young like Diop for example.

 

[Travis Bickle]

I think it's useless to spend all our money on players that won't be around by the time we're actually competing for a championship.
_____________

But suppose we signed Brent Barry and Kurt Thomas to 4 year, $28 million dollar deals (imagining that's what it'd take to get them, since most other teams only have the MLE and the most they could offer is 4/23). In three years, Barry and Thomas are mid-30's and winding down but still good vets, Amare is in his fifth year, JJ is in his sixth, Shawn is in his eight, Jake V. is in his seventh, Zarko and Barbosa are in their third, etc... Don't you think that that team (taking for granted that JJ, Amare, etc... develop like we hope they will) could contend for a title?

I do see the benefit of drafting the best player as an asset, counting on the ability to trade him for a piece you need further down the road, though.

 

[scotsman13]

here is something to look at. after next season the suns are going to be giving jj a great big new contract and then the next season they will give amare a great big new contract along with lampe and casey and then the next year will be barbosa and zarko for new contracts. during this time the only players coming off the books after this season will be white in 1 year and then eisley in 3.

based on all of this information it is very likely that in 3 years the suns will be up to 3 max players in jj, marion and amare. and at least a couple of mid level contracts in barbosa, casey and lampe and zarko will be there or shortly will be. now if you sign someone like camby or kobe or barry you are still looking at about 3 years for this team to be making a run at a championship even with these new players and then you may lose some of the deep that have build up. and even more important is that if you give up the draft picks this year you may not be able to get some good players that will help feel out the team.

if we get clevelands pick i think that we will give that to the spurs to pay for barbosa. but the other 2 picks i dont think that we should part with them at all. lets say that we get tiago splitter and kosta perovic both of them are under contract and maybe not be able to get out for a couple years before we can get them on to the team. would this be a bad thing? you only go with some over priced vet if you believe believe they are a step to get you to the next step. for this team the thing that will get them to the next step is time.

 

[Joe Mama]

If the Phoenix Suns get Cleveland's pick this year it's almost certainly going to be #14 or #15. I don't believe they are obligated to give the San Antonio Spurs their own pick unless it is worse than #20. It might even be #25. I know it helps with the flexibility to make future trades, but I don't think the Phoenix Suns need to hand over a much better draft pick than is owed.

Joe Mama

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I want to say the SA pick is top 24 protected the first year.

 

[F-Dog]

So, let me get this straight:

--the Suns should get rid of their draft picks, because they have too many prospects already
--the Suns shouldn't sign any free agents, because free agents are too old
--the Suns are in last place.

Seems like quite a conundrum you've got here.

 

[George O'Brien]

Maybe Divac

Originally posted by F-Dog
So, let me get this straight:

--the Suns should get rid of their draft picks, because they have too many prospects already
--the Suns shouldn't sign any free agents, because free agents are too old
--the Suns are in last place.

Seems like quite a conundrum you've got here.

Bad terminology. Prospects are great, projects are fine but you should not have too many. Okafor is a prospect. Pavel is a project.

I am not as interested in Brent Barry since JJ emerged. He is looking for a four year deal at or about the mid cap, ie $20 million. The other teams that are looking at are sure to give it and I'm not sure I'd give him a four year with his history of injuries.

Camby is the same problem. He might settle for $6 million but only on a four year contract. His record of being healthy is very very poor.

One of the reasons I like the idea of going for Divac is that he would not want a long term contract nor insist on significant minutes. The Suns could develop Lampe and even keep White if the price is not too high.

 

[F-Dog]

Re: Maybe Divac

Originally posted by George O'Brien
Bad terminology. Prospects are great, projects are fine but you should not have too many. Okafor is a prospect. Pavel is a project.

But the Suns aren't going to get Okafor, are they? And Divac is planning to retire after this year.

Oh well, I'm sure the team will figure something out.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Re: Re: Maybe Divac

Originally posted by F-Dog
But the Suns aren't going to get Okafor, are they?

Um, I don't think that question is even remotely answerable until the lottery happens.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I dont think there is any real way to guage how the suns will spend this offseason until after the finals. The expansion draft is slated to be held the day after game 6 I believe, and will be pushed back if there is a game 7.

Once that and the lottery happens we will have answers to:

1.) Where is the suns pick going to be?
2.) Where is the NY pick going to be?
3.) Do we get the Cavs pick?
4.) Were we able to offload a big salary and or pick to the Bobcats?


Until those questions are answered, there are so many ways things can turn out, it is rather useless (although always interesting) to continuously speculate on the summer ahead. For once, we don't know almost exactly where we stand for the offseason months before it arrives, I for one enjoy that.

 

[F-Dog]

Re: Re: Re: Maybe Divac

Originally posted by thegrahamcrackr
Um, I don't think that question is even remotely answerable until the lottery happens.

The way they're playing, the Suns aren't going to finish the year in last place, even in the West. (This is without Amare, too.) The lottery is heavily weighted against the better lotto teams.

I think we're looking at less than a 5% chance of getting one of the top two spots.


If it happens, that would be really cool, though, I agree.

 

[Mainstreet]

I believe the Suns should consider giving the new NBA team (the Bobcats) a number one pick, whichever has lesser value... e.g. New York's future number one pick (not this year) or such to take Eisley off our hands.

Eisley is a good player with a big contract that could help a new franchise and that franchise gets a number one pick out of the deal... and we keep White, at least for now.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by Mainstreet
I believe the Suns should consider giving the new NBA team (the Bobcats) a number one pick, whichever has lesser value... e.g. New York's future number one pick (not this year) or such to take Eisley off our hands.

Eisley is a good player with a big contract that could help a new franchise and that franchise gets a number one pick out of the deal... and we keep White, at least for now.

No one knows what it would take to move Eisley. I am guessing it would take at least this year's NY pick. We won't know what the Cats plan on doing or what other salary dump deals they will be offered.

 

[Mainstreet]

Just another thought... maybe Utah could be talked into a similar deal with Eisley and then we can take McDyess and Googs both off our books at the end of the year... let the Bobcats do what they may... and free some major contract money.

I'm not sure if Utah would bite. Perhaps include Eisley, White and a number one.

Forgive me, maybe it's just cabin fever and the snow getting to me.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by Mainstreet
Just another thought... maybe Utah could be talked into a similar deal with Eisley and then we can take McDyess and Googs both off our books at the end of the year... let the Bobcats do what they may... and free some major contract money.

I'm not sure if Utah would bite. Perhaps include Eisley, White and a number one.

Forgive me, maybe it's just cabin fever and the snow getting to me.

McDyess and Googs are gone anyway this summer. (McDyess might come back at a veteran minimum, but no more than that).

Utah will be the 800 pound gorilla of free agncy this summer. They currently have only $8.7 million in guarenteed contracts. Maybe you are right and they would accept Eisley along with some picks, but they will get a lot of offers.

As for the Jazz having interest in White, it seems unlikely but it all depends on what Ostertag does. If Ostertag signs somewhere else, the Jazz might have interest in White if nothing else than to replace Keon Clark's slot. I'm not sure their interest would be great enough to get them to accept Eisley, but who knows?

 

[Mainstreet]

Just another thought... maybe Utah could be talked into a similar deal with Eisley and then we can take McDyess and Googs both off our books at the end of the year... let the Bobcats do what they may... and free some major contract money.

That's why the last idea intriqued my interest as both Googs and McDyess both come off our books at the end of the year. Removing Eisley and White with the assistance of Utah... would free even more salary cap space.

However, as a general rule, I do not like the idea of giving up first round pick(s) to get it done. And l especially like White as at least a back-up center. I believe the Suns would have to feel the nucleus of this team is in place with only a key draft pick and a desirable free agent addition needed to solidify this team.

 

[scotsman13]

Originally posted by George O'Brien
Utah will be the 800 pound gorilla of free agncy this summer.

george i hate to brake this to you but (even more so if you are a jazz fan) but no one wants to play for the jazz but some new rookie. name the late major free agent that the jazz brought in?
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there isnt one. utah is great if you like skiing but if you are black and not settled down then this is a very poor place to be. utah has build through draft to be successful and that is the only way they will get back to being long term successful and there is no coach that can change that.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Well Scotts, Corey Magette and Jason Terry disagree with you.

Andre Miller almost did as well. Same for Elton Brand.


They never used to be able to pickup FAs, and everyone assumed it was because of the location. However, it might have more to do with having to play behind Stock and Malone.


I think they will have problems getting some FAs, but definitely not to the extent everyone assumed they would.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by thegrahamcrackr
Well Scotts, Corey Magette and Jason Terry disagree with you.

Andre Miller almost did as well. Same for Elton Brand.

They never used to be able to pickup FAs, and everyone assumed it was because of the location. However, it might have more to do with having to play behind Stock and Malone.

I think they will have problems getting some FAs, but definitely not to the extent everyone assumed they would.

The other thing was that they refuse to over pay for FA's. In both the Maggette and Terry deals, they got good offers but not killer offers.

BTW, I do not believe the Suns would have to give up anything to move White if they so desired. At worst, he is maybe $1 million over priced. They would certainly have to use a pick to clear Eisley, which only makes sense if the Suns have someone in mind for the money in the FA market.

 

[JCSunsfan]

It is possible to have too many young prospects along with too many picks. Its not so much of a problem in June or July as it is in November. If you've got all babies on your roster in November you'll have off the court problems as well as on the court problems. But its not all bad news as it leaves you lots ofl options.

1. Trade multiple picks to move up in the draft.

2. Trade picks this year for future picks.

3. Trade picks for vet players that fill a need.

4. Draft the best player available and see who rises above the rest. Then try to move the young players who lose out.

5. Draft all centers. With 2 or three centers coming out of the draft, plus Lampe and Jake, there should be an eventual quality starter in there some place. If you get more than one, all the better. Even mediocre NBA centers have market value.

6. Trade picks with players in order to move salary and head to the FA market. The problem with this view is that there is probably not a FA worth going for--aside from Kobe--and there are big question marks about him.