Do you have confidence with Babby and the 2013 draft?

[SirStefan32]

They needed to rebuild and they are in the process of doing that. They probably waited too long to start but I think the GM has done a pretty good job considering what they had when he started.

Getting 4 picks for a FA they were not going to re-sign not a good move?

Trading (essentially) Lopez for a pick and Warrick for a low cost prospect not a good move?

Signing Tucker, O'Neal, and Dragic not a good moves? They had to fill the roster somehow.
Claiming Scola not a good move?

I know people are down on Beasley but I don't think the experiment is over yet and his contract is not horrible.


I think some people are being hysterical with their complaints.

Excellent post!

 

[Phrazbit]

They needed to rebuild and they are in the process of doing that. They probably waited too long to start but I think the GM has done a pretty good job considering what they had when he started.

Getting 4 picks for a FA they were not going to re-sign not a good move?

Trading (essentially) Lopez for a pick and Warrick for a low cost prospect not a good move?

Signing Tucker, O'Neal, and Dragic not a good moves? They had to fill the roster somehow.
Claiming Scola not a good move?

I know people are down on Beasley but I don't think the experiment is over yet and his contract is not horrible.


I think some people are being hysterical with their complaints.

Again, in 3 years we have assembled the worst roster in the conference... period.

Viewed individually the moves the Suns have made are defensible, but when you take them as a whole they are baffling. We bring in veterans out the wazzo in the offseason, then fire the coach for not playing youth. We should have blown the roster up in EACH of the last 3 offseasons but instead we continue to add in more and more mediocre parts and the team consistently gets worse.

And Beasley was the move of a grossly incompetent front office. You will never see the better ran organizations give a player like him a 3 year deal, especially at a rate that he couldnt be given away at last year when he was expiring. Their hype job on Beasley only makes the move more absurd.

It would be one thing to get worse with each passing year and the team is TRULY rebuilding from the ground up, but thats not the case, we are steadily sinking into the cellar while the front office is trying to compete!

The franchise has no direction, nothing to build around except future picks.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

It would be one thing to get worse with each passing year and the team is TRULY rebuilding from the ground up, but thats not the case, we are steadily sinking into the cellar while the front office is trying to compete!

The franchise has no direction, nothing to build around except future picks.

Exactly. Talk about revisionist history. This FO is so clueless, they thought they had a legit chance to compete for a playoff spot. A chance to get swept in the 1st round without developing any of our younger players.

Thankfully the team has been as awful as most smart basketball people anticipated, yet the team refuses to give any of the young players any kind of meaningful time to get better, and completely wastes valuable evaluation of guys like Marshall, Morris, Beasley and Johnson. I'm fairly confident they all suck, as they've shown, but at least see if you can hit pay dirt on one of them.

The FO never planned on a real rebuild, they have continually called it "reloading" but their efforts have been a complete failure. From their performance as talent evaluators to their high comedy coaching search, Sarver and friends continue to turn one of the most successful teams in NBA history into a farce.

If only it were funny...

 

[Chaz]

Again, in 3 years we have assembled the worst roster in the conference... period.

Viewed individually the moves the Suns have made are defensible, but when you take them as a whole they are baffling. We bring in veterans out the wazzo in the offseason, then fire the coach for not playing youth. We should have blown the roster up in EACH of the last 3 offseasons but instead we continue to add in more and more mediocre parts and the team consistently gets worse.

And Beasley was the move of a grossly incompetent front office. You will never see the better ran organizations give a player like him a 3 year deal, especially at a rate that he couldnt be given away at last year when he was expiring. Their hype job on Beasley only makes the move more absurd.

It would be one thing to get worse with each passing year and the team is TRULY rebuilding from the ground up, but thats not the case, we are steadily sinking into the cellar while the front office is trying to compete!

The franchise has no direction, nothing to build around except future picks.

I think you are baffling. The moves are good (on their own) but they aren't (good as a whole)?

I think they are just now hitting the bottom. We are in cellar. They just made the move on Nash six months ago. What would you expect them to have to build around besides draft picks at this point? Do you have some magic that will make other teams trade talent to the Suns for nothing?

I don't have a problem with Beasley. He is a reclamation project off the trash heap.
We are left to complain about committing to Beasley for 3 years or Brown for 2. It is a minor complaint at best.

All this consternation that many seem to have is the reality hitting home of what we knew was inevitable given the mismanagement of this team for not the past 3 years but going back 8. The only constant has been the owner but we can't fire him. While he has been misguided I think he is willing to spending money and he wants to win.

While not spectacular the management of this team for 2 years since Blanks got here has been steady and a clear improvement over past efforts with D'Antoni and Kerr.

Back the OP. I don't know that I have "faith" in this management team but I haven't seen anything that makes me think they will screw it up. The (rebuilding) job is really just beginning because as many people keep telling me you have to get worse before you can get better.

 

[JCSunsfan]

What is becoming clear to me is that in order to move beyond the Nash era, Gentry (and his staff) had to go.

I look Babby and Blanks record and its ok. JC made blunders too. The difference with JC is that he always seemed to be in the middle of the big stuff. We were always looking at the best free agents, trying to trade for the star players.

This staff hasn't been able to do that.

 

[elindholm]

What is becoming clear to me is that in order to move beyond the Nash era, Gentry (and his staff) had to go.

Why? Is there any reason other than symbolism?

I look Babby and Blanks record and its ok. JC made blunders too. The difference with JC is that he always seemed to be in the middle of the big stuff. We were always looking at the best free agents, trying to trade for the star players.

This staff hasn't been able to do that.

What does that have to do with Gentry?

 

[sunsfan88]

They needed to rebuild and they are in the process of doing that. They probably waited too long to start but I think the GM has done a pretty good job considering what they had when he started.

Getting 4 picks for a FA they were not going to re-sign not a good move?

Trading (essentially) Lopez for a pick and Warrick for a low cost prospect not a good move?

Signing Tucker, O'Neal, and Dragic not a good moves? They had to fill the roster somehow.
Claiming Scola not a good move?

I know people are down on Beasley but I don't think the experiment is over yet and his contract is not horrible.


I think some people are being hysterical with their complaints.

You nailed it! Props for you!

 

[Errntknght]

They aren't rebuilding or reloading, they're muddling along with no plan. Yes D'Antoni screwed up our draft team good and proper but B&B have done nothing to fix it - so what good are all the draft picks? You could do better with mock drafts and darts. As we saw during Percudani's tenure, one guy that can actually evaluate players and works hard at his job is enough.

Scola is defensible because he might net us something down the road, and some of his cunning might rub off, but O'Neal? Solomon Jones would have been a better idea - and I don't know anything about him. We should be dragging in bigs from the D league on ten day contracts looking for someone who is strong and likes to bang. If we got lucky one might learn to defend.

 

[Phrazbit]

I think you are baffling. The moves are good (on their own) but they aren't (good as a whole)?

I think they are just now hitting the bottom. We are in cellar. They just made the move on Nash six months ago. What would you expect them to have to build around besides draft picks at this point? Do you have some magic that will make other teams trade talent to the Suns for nothing?

I don't have a problem with Beasley. He is a reclamation project off the trash heap.
We are left to complain about committing to Beasley for 3 years or Brown for 2. It is a minor complaint at best.

All this consternation that many seem to have is the reality hitting home of what we knew was inevitable given the mismanagement of this team for not the past 3 years but going back 8. The only constant has been the owner but we can't fire him. While he has been misguided I think he is willing to spending money and he wants to win.

While not spectacular the management of this team for 2 years since Blanks got here has been steady and a clear improvement over past efforts with D'Antoni and Kerr.

Back the OP. I don't know that I have "faith" in this management team but I haven't seen anything that makes me think they will screw it up. The (rebuilding) job is really just beginning because as many people keep telling me you have to get worse before you can get better.

No, the moves are not good on their own but they are mildly defensable (some at least) but taken as a whole they are idiotic. And that thought should not be baffling.

Signing Dragic on its own, okay... bringing Telfair back on its own... fine... drafting Marshall... a bit of a reach but okay... those THREE moves taken as a whole? Freaking absurd. We "need" draft a point guard and then bring in two more veterans?!

And fine, they let Nash go 6 months ago... but that was TWO YEARS into their tenure... during those two years they brought in ZERO quality players besides Gortat (who is mediocre).

How this is an improvement over previous management (especially Kerr) is beyond me. Kerr was severely handcuffed with the looming luxury tax and the damage GM D'Antoni did and he reassembled the team in 2010. He did it with no picks to work with and basically no cap space.

Not saying Kerr is a genius but he looks like Jerry West compared to the current clowns.

Seriously... theve been here THREE YEARS and we have absolutely NOTHING to build around. How long do they get a free pass?

If not for New Orleans bailing us on Gordon's dumb contract out we would be seriously screwed for the long term. We'd be a capped out and BAD basketball team.

And once more... you are using some serious revisionist history to claim this is year one of a rebuild. The morons in the front office thought this was a playoff team... while anyone with an ounce of basketball knowledge knew they only thing they'd contend for is a ton of lotto balls.

 

[Chaz]

.

Seriously... theve been here THREE YEARS and we have absolutely NOTHING to build around.

You keep saying this but it isn't true.

 

[Phrazbit]

You keep saying this but it isn't true.

Really? We have two league average starters in Gortat and Dragic... then we have a few solid bench quality players in Dudley and Scola. All of the mentioned players are beyond their 1st contract, Dudley was inherited from the previous regime. None of them are irreplaceable, none of them even remotely resemble a star or have potential to become one...

After those 4 players the rest of the roster is "talent" that varies between halfway decent bench guy or abominably terrible.

Furthermore we have ONE rotation player still on their rookie contract (Morris... and he stinks). You might expect that from an older team thats been plugging in parts to contend... but to encounter that situation on a cellar dweller points to a stunning level of incompetence in the front office.

 

[Chaz]

Really?

Yes, both "three years" and "nothing" are hyperbole.

 

[SirStefan32]

They aren't rebuilding or reloading, they're muddling along with no plan. Yes D'Antoni screwed up our draft team good and proper but B&B have done nothing to fix it - so what good are all the draft picks? You could do better with mock drafts and darts. As we saw during Percudani's tenure, one guy that can actually evaluate players and works hard at his job is enough.

Scola is defensible because he might net us something down the road, and some of his cunning might rub off, but O'Neal? Solomon Jones would have been a better idea - and I don't know anything about him. We should be dragging in bigs from the D league on ten day contracts looking for someone who is strong and likes to bang. If we got lucky one might learn to defend.

Oh stop freaking out- they just let Nash and Hill go last summer. They managed to get four picks for Nash, and another one for Lopez while getting rid of Warrick. They are a couple of month into this process and people like you are whining as if though they've been rebuilding for 5 years. These things take time, so let's give them at least another off season and a draft before we start to freak out.

 

[carey]

Oh stop freaking out- they just let Nash and Hill go last summer. They managed to get four picks for Nash, and another one for Lopez while getting rid of Warrick. They are a couple of month into this process and people like you are whining as if though they've been rebuilding for 5 years. These things take time, so let's give them at least another off season and a draft before we start to freak out.

I agree with what you said for the most part. People clamoring to blow it up... well this what the start of that looks like. Fun isn't it? Pretty soon the vets will be gone and the youth movement will begin in earnest. The biggest problem is that our talent evaluator is woeful. Our biggest hope right now is that we luck into a top 3 pick so Blanks and Treolar (who isn't getting nearly the amount of blame as he should be getting) can't **** it up by default.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

They managed to get four picks for Nash

I'm glad you get excited about 2nd rounders, lots of stars picked there. The only potentially redeeming part of the Nash trade is the possibility of getting a lottery pick, which nobody could have envisioned, and the Lakers wouldn't have included if they had any idea they might not make the playoffs. Otherwise it's the Heat pick, which considering our drafting history as of late with late lottery picks, would probably be a future star!

They are a couple of month into this process and people like you are whining as if though they've been rebuilding for 5 years. These things take time, so let's give them at least another off season and a draft before we start to freak out.

They are a couple months in this "process" because they were too thick to realize that the fun was over as soon as we traded Amare. Nearly everything else they've done in the meantime has either been short sighted or delusional.

These guys have been in charge for 3+ years, and you can't point out a less talented roster in the NBA. Please, name one player on the team you view as untouchable or even someone to build around. Keep blaming JC and others for that though, they were the ones selling off picks and "re-inventing" the front office.

You and Sarver can keep patting each other on the backs and talk about what a great job they're doing as the Suns are the least relevant that they've ever been.

 

[Chaz]

These guys have been in charge for 3+ years,

October 2010 + 36 months = October 2013.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I agree with what you said for the most part. People clamoring to blow it up... well this what the start of that looks like. Fun isn't it? Pretty soon the vets will be gone and the youth movement will begin in earnest. The biggest problem is that our talent evaluator is woeful. Our biggest hope right now is that we luck into a top 3 pick so Blanks and Treolar (who isn't getting nearly the amount of blame as he should be getting) can't **** it up by default.

Carey, look at post #46 in this thread and show me how the talent evaluation is woeful. I don't think the problem was the ability to evaluate talent. The big problem is two-fold

1. We let Amare walk for nothing in return.
2. We hung on to Nash too long.

The other mistakes are the types of mistakes that every team makes.

We, amazingly, ended up getting picks for Nash in the end. So we dug ourselves out of that one. The upside of hanging on to Nash is that we had the privilege of watching him in a Suns uni for a little longer.

The jury is still out on Marshall (though I am not hopeful). If there was a player available at that spot that everyone KNEW would succeed, fine. But there wasn't. Yes, some surprised, but that happens every year.

Markieff was a solid pick, though not spectacular. For all the complaints to the contrary, they did get the right brother.

The talent evaluation in this front office is mediocre, but not horrible.

 

[carey]

Carey, look at post #46 in this thread and show me how the talent evaluation is woeful.

I think Morris is awful. We could have had Leonard, but the front office passed because he declined to come in for a workout. What this really means is the front office didn't project Leonard to fall that far so they didn't do their due diligence on him and they just didn't have the balls to take him. I could have forgiven that if they would have taken Faried, but the managed to **** that up too. Hell, Vucevic has had some monster games and is already putting up numbers equal to Gortat. He was selected 16th. Then of course there's Shumpert (17th) Mar'Shon Brooks, Chandler Parsons, hell even Isaiah Thomas. They whiffed hard on Kieff.

I predict Kendall Marshall will be playing in Europe in 2 years. I'd have rather had Zeller, Nicholson, Henson, Sullinger or even Moe Harkless who I think will be a decent player down the line. Another whiff.

Then of course there is the Beasley signing. Do we even need to still discuss it at this point? The fact that they chose him as the person to meet with on Day 1 of the FA period when no other teams were interested (aside from the Detroit rumor which was never substantiated) still baffles me.

I give them credit for the smart bid on Louis Scola, and only because this Summer I think he's going to be flipped for something decent from a contending team.

I give them credit for the reasonable deal Dragic signed.

I give them credit for moving Turkoglu and JRich for Gortat. The only "A" move they've made since they've been here.

I also give them credit for signing Dudley to an extension. I think that was the first official thing Babby did as President.

So if we're keeping score that's 3 bad moves, 2 mediocre ones, and two good ones. Not exactly inspiring to me, which is why I'm hoping for a top 3 pick so they don't screw it up too badly.

 

[Phrazbit]

Yes, both "three years" and "nothing" are hyperbole.

This is the 3rd season under this regime. And yes, they have nothing to build around. Please, defend this roster. How long do these guys get a free pass? We have NOTHING to build around.

Again... ONE player on a rookie contract that actually is in the rotation, that is utterly inexcusable for a "rebuilding" team, and that player sucks! Its one thing to suck but have upside but thats not the case here. What few contributing players we have are all beyond 26 and none are better than above average.

It is shocking that anyone could defend this incompetent group of idiots that have been here long enough to assemble an entire roster of "their guys" and the roster is the worst in the conference... and has zero potential.

 

[Phrazbit]

Carey, look at post #46 in this thread and show me how the talent evaluation is woeful. I don't think the problem was the ability to evaluate talent. The big problem is two-fold


The talent evaluation in this front office is mediocre, but not horrible.

Really? Look at post #46 and tell me how these guys are NOT horrible.

They've been here long enough to install an entire roster to their choosing and we are the worst team in the west, one of the worst in the league. We have a grand total of two players that qualify as an "average" level starter.

Among their supposed "wins" is an amnesty claim on an over the hill power forward who has no purpose on a team in our condition and a draft pick on a power forward who shoots 40%, has no post game, struggles on the glass and does not play defense.

If those are among the "better" moves this regime has made then I think it settles the question pretty definitively that we have arguably the worst front office in the entire league.

 

[elindholm]

If those are among the "better" moves this regime has made then I think it settles the question pretty definitively that we have arguably the worst front office in the entire league.

But you have to look at what they had to work with. No one was going to give up value for Stoudemire, Nash, or Hill. We know that the Suns tried to trade Stoudemire for years and couldn't get an offer worth taking. Getting a handful of late picks for Nash was a minor miracle.

Better players than Morris were available, but would you have rather had Jan Vesely at #4, or Alec Burks at #12? The Suns aren't the only ones who don't nail every pick.

You hate the Beasley signing, but what else would the team have done with the money? Sat on it? How would that put them in a stronger position?

It's very difficult to make something out of nothing with an NBA roster. When the core of your team is either old or injury-prone, and you haven't had a high draft pick in a quarter century, there really aren't a lot of options aside from staying patient and/or getting very lucky.

 

[Errntknght]

Oh stop freaking out- they just let Nash and Hill go last summer. They managed to get four picks for Nash, and another one for Lopez while getting rid of Warrick. They are a couple of month into this process and people like you are whining as if though they've been rebuilding for 5 years. These things take time, so let's give them at least another off season and a draft before we start to freak out.

Thanks for reminding me they were slow to start 'reloading'. I'm not freaking out now, not like I did when they signed Warrick and Hedo! Those signings were gross basketball stupidity, recognizable as such at the time. They were needlessly generous to Childress but at least he was someone who had a possibility of working out - he was capable defender earlier in his career. They let Amundson walk - a capable defender and the energizer of our second unit. So, I'm not thrilled at their efforts to undo those blunders.

Their coup was getting Gortat but even at the time it was clear - and mentioned many times in here - that his age was a mismatch for our rebuild time frame. (Not that they had a clue that rebuilding was in order.) Hopefully, they'll manage to get something for him when he leaves.

I may have to give them serious props someday for making Hunter the HC, though I'm not convinced they knew what they were doing. If they start signing/drafting the kind of players he'll need I guess I'll have to concede they had a plan, however well concealed it was.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Yes, both "three years" and "nothing" are hyperbole.

okay... if you think they have more then "nothing" to build around, can you tell me what you think is "something" they can build around?

 

[Phrazbit]

But you have to look at what they had to work with. No one was going to give up value for Stoudemire, Nash, or Hill. We know that the Suns tried to trade Stoudemire for years and couldn't get an offer worth taking. Getting a handful of late picks for Nash was a minor miracle.

Better players than Morris were available, but would you have rather had Jan Vesely at #4, or Alec Burks at #12? The Suns aren't the only ones who don't nail every pick.

You hate the Beasley signing, but what else would the team have done with the money? Sat on it? How would that put them in a stronger position?

It's very difficult to make something out of nothing with an NBA roster. When the core of your team is either old or injury-prone, and you haven't had a high draft pick in a quarter century, there really aren't a lot of options aside from staying patient and/or getting very lucky.

Its one thing to miss on a pick, its another to miss on every pick, which is what the Suns have been doing.

Looking at the Morris pick, we took him because apparently we wanted another stretch 4... despite having Frye locked in to his crazy contract for 5 years.

We took Marshall out of "need" for a PG, then turn around and sign a 4 year contract to a guy who will be an entrenched starter... and then also sign a veteran backup.

Its the moves, that taken as a whole show a shocking lack of vision. What is the plan? As near as I can tell there is none.

And yes, doing nothing is better than getting Beasley. Even signing guys to one year deals to meet the salary floor is a far better option. At least then you have flexibility to be a trade facilitator, and maybe you can role the dice on a one year deal like what Dallas did with Mayo, instead of locking yourself into a 3 year deal on Beasley where despite the immediate and obvious failure they will still be paying for it for years. Teams constantly use their little extra bits of space and small contracts to facilitate trades and pick up extra picks, Cleveland just did it with Memphis. The Suns however have little to offer in that department, being a roster virtually devoid of trade value, role players, mostly bad ones, on multi-year deals. Dudley and Gortat are our only real trade assets (besides our own draft pick).

And again, the Gordon contract nearly destroyed any hope.

The front office has no plan, its obvious they have no plan, they claimed before the year that they thought this was a playoff team, their "theme" before the year was "commitment".

I agree, rebuilding takes time, but rebuilding requires direction, and instead what we see is a team fumbling in the dark and boggling the vast majority of their acquisitions.

Year three of Blanks/Babby... we are one of the worst teams in the league, we have virtually no potential on the roster, we have very little in trade assets.

I just dont see how that is a even slightly defensible track record when you look at the big picture.

 

[JCSunsfan]

It's very difficult to make something out of nothing with an NBA roster. When the core of your team is either old or injury-prone, and you haven't had a high draft pick in a quarter century, there really aren't a lot of options aside from staying patient and/or getting very lucky.

. . . especially when the previous regime traded away most of the young assets for cash.