Do you have confidence with Babby and the 2013 draft?

[JCSunsfan]

The Beasley signing was a roll of the dice to make something out of nothing. It is still a low risk signing and will not haunt us very long.

Markieff is a mediocre draft pick, not a horrible one. He is playing and producing and developing. His ceiling is not high but he is a contributor and about typical of what you can expect for his draft position.

Marshall, well, I just don't know. I have my doubts he will ever produce. I agree that the jury is still out, but to me it seems like a bust.

 

[elindholm]

Looking at the Morris pick, we took him because apparently we wanted another stretch 4

Not because they thought he was the best player available? Every time a team makes a pick that turns out to be marginal, people say, "Oh, well they were drafting for need." But that's always assessed in hindsight. I don't think Morris was a need pick at all.

We took Marshall out of "need" for a PG, then turn around and sign a 4 year contract to a guy who will be an entrenched starter

Well sure, because they still needed a starting PG. Expecting a PG selected in the late lottery to come in and be the starter right away would be lunacy.

and then also sign a veteran backup.

I'm guessing they did that once they figured out that Marshall sucks.

What is the plan? As near as I can tell there is none.

The plan is to put some sort of marginally credible product on the floor while waiting to be rescued by the draft. It may be unimaginative, but I frankly can't come up with anything better. Can you?

 

[JCSunsfan]

Year three of Blanks/Babby... we are one of the worst teams in the league, we have virtually no potential on the roster, we have very little in trade assets.

I just dont see how that is a even slightly defensible track record when you look at the big picture.

We have 6 first round picks in the next three years. We have Gortat, Dudley, Dragic, Scola, and Morris as parts with positive trade value. We are not cap strapped like many teams in this position.

Its not nothing.

One good draft pick and one good free agent signing and EVERYTHING could change for the better.

 

[Phrazbit]

We have 6 first round picks in the next three years. We have Gortat, Dudley, Dragic, Scola, and Morris as parts with positive trade value. We are not cap strapped like many teams in this position.

Its not nothing.

One good draft pick and one good free agent signing and EVERYTHING could change for the better.

They tried to cap strap us and failed, if we keep the current dummies in place I think they will probably succeed in the coming year, chewing up the remaining cap on an ill-advised huge contract to a player like Monta Ellis or Tyreke Evans.

And I know that is actually hyperbole but based on their track record its a fair assumption.

Dudley and Gortat are nice moveable pieces. We are not going to land a star with them but at least they are defintely players with positive value.

Scola? Marginal at best. He is in decline, we cannot trade him until next July, a time where the market for an older player like him will not be good. So we are left holding him until next year's mid-season and hoping that his play does not slip further... which it assumably will. Either way, even with optimistic glasses on, its hard to picture them getting much worth caring about out of Scola.

And Morris is a non-asset. Being on his rookie deal, his contract is small so its not prohibitive but he also couldnt fetch anything in trade. He simply a cheap and lousy player.

We are also one bad big free agent signing and one whiffed top pick from being the most depressing franchise in the league for years to come. Based on the current groups track record its a safer bet on "sadness" than it is to think they will suddenly reverse course.

 

[DWKB]

Morris isn't awful, he's average on an awful team.

Leonard isn't good, he's average on a good team.

 

[Phrazbit]

Morris isn't awful, he's average on an awful team.

Leonard isn't good, he's average on a good team.

Morris is really really bad. I sympathize with you as a Jayhawk fan, I tend to overrate most Arizona players (I cant fathom that Derrick Williams is really as bad as he looks in Minnesota). But Morris is a really bad player.

He is inept on defense, a below average rebounder, and his offense relies entirely on a below average jump shot. He is a homeless man's Channing Frye. The reason the Suns are an awful team is because they have so many players of Morris' caliber.

 

[Chaz]

This is the 3rd season under this regime. And yes, they have nothing to build around. Please, defend this roster. How long do these guys get a free pass? We have NOTHING to build around.

Again... ONE player on a rookie contract that actually is in the rotation, that is utterly inexcusable for a "rebuilding" team, and that player sucks! Its one thing to suck but have upside but thats not the case here. What few contributing players we have are all beyond 26 and none are better than above average.

It is shocking that anyone could defend this incompetent group of idiots that have been here long enough to assemble an entire roster of "their guys" and the roster is the worst in the conference... and has zero potential.

I am not saying that they are doing a great job or that I expect them to spin gold but I do want this to be a factual discussion and less prone to hyperbole and hysteria as it seems we have had since the coaching change. You might not like what they have done but they aren't morons or incompetent as you declare and they have not been at this for 3+ years.
I don't think this group is above some criticism. I like Carey's post for example.

When Blanks got here in 2010 the roster was already set. The first thing he did was undo some mistakes that were made earlier that summer. He/they did make a pretty lame attempt to get yet another Nash backup for an end of the season playoff attempt and gave up a pick in the process. Then they had to deal with the lockout (as did everyone).

 

[Phrazbit]

I am not saying that they are doing a great job or that I expect them to spin gold but I do want this to be a factual discussion and less prone to hyperbole and hysteria as it seems we have had since the coaching change. You might not like what they have done but they aren't morons or incompetent as you declare and they have not been at this for 3+ years.
I don't think this group is above some criticism. I like Carey's post for example.

When Blanks got here in 2010 the roster was already set. The first thing he did was undo some mistakes that were made earlier that summer. He/they did make a pretty lame attempt to get yet another Nash backup for an end of the season playoff attempt and gave up a pick in the process. Then they had to deal with the lockout (as did everyone).

The lockout only helped them. The amnesty clause allowed them to dump Childress... unfortunately they turned and dumped all the money saved into an even worse player but.... c'est la vie. Poorly ran teams with no vision do that kind of thing.

I just cant give them a free pass, especially when so much is riding on this coming off-season. They (especially Blanks) need to be removed from the equation before they do (as their track record suggests they will) some serious and long term damage.

 

[Neo]

The lockout only helped them. The amnesty clause allowed them to dump Childress... unfortunately they turned and dumped all the money saved into an even worse player but.... c'est la vie.

I am sorry, but Beasley may be bad, but he is not nearly as bad as Childress. Childress was waived by the Nets and I doubt he ever laces up in the NBA again. The man is just plain awful.

 

[Errntknght]

I am sorry, but Beasley may be bad, but he is not nearly as bad as Childress. Childress was waived by the Nets and I doubt he ever laces up in the NBA again. The man is just plain awful.

Childress was a good defender earlier in his career and while he wasn't much of a scorer he was quite efficient on offense. Beasley is getting somewhat better on defense but he was Warrickesque, as others noted here, early in the year. And that was what was expected from his history. He was also fighting for the very bottom of the league in various +/- ratings and dead last in differential (on court - off court). On the board the discussion was: was he actually the worst player in the league or just one of the worst. He's currently 3rd worst in on-off court.

Whats more baffling, if you look at his stats for the four years before he came here, they were declining virtually across the board so what motivated our FO to grasp at that particular straw?

Childress declined in his two years overseas (08-09, 09-10) but our FO neglected to take that possibility into account when they awarded him a hefty contract. Except for a time when he had a broken finger but was needed on the floor, he didn't get enough playing time to tell much - not the 40% of team minutes required to be included in the 82 games overall ratings mentioned above, for instance. By my observation he was not the defender he'd been earlier but he still didn't hurt the offense except when he fired up an occasional 3. Statistically he was one of the most efficient offensive players on the team. [approx. (Pts/2 + Asst + OReb) / (FGmissed + TOs)]

Beasley's offensive efficiency is less than any other Sun that gets significant minutes and less than half of what Childress rated.

 

[JCSunsfan]

They tried to cap strap us and failed, if we keep the current dummies in place I think they will probably succeed in the coming year, chewing up the remaining cap on an ill-advised huge contract to a player like Monta Ellis or Tyreke Evans.

And I know that is actually hyperbole but based on their track record its a fair assumption.

Dudley and Gortat are nice moveable pieces. We are not going to land a star with them but at least they are defintely players with positive value.

Scola? Marginal at best. He is in decline, we cannot trade him until next July, a time where the market for an older player like him will not be good. So we are left holding him until next year's mid-season and hoping that his play does not slip further... which it assumably will. Either way, even with optimistic glasses on, its hard to picture them getting much worth caring about out of Scola.

And Morris is a non-asset. Being on his rookie deal, his contract is small so its not prohibitive but he also couldnt fetch anything in trade. He simply a cheap and lousy player.

We are also one bad big free agent signing and one whiffed top pick from being the most depressing franchise in the league for years to come. Based on the current groups track record its a safer bet on "sadness" than it is to think they will suddenly reverse course.

"they would if they could" is not an argument.

 

[SunsTzu]

"they would if they could" is not an argument.

They not only would if they could, they actually did. If not for the Hornets saving them the Suns would be locked into this same team with only an injury prone borderline All Star SG to show for it.

The Suns aren't really in a bad rebuilding situation right now going forward, but if they retain the same management I fear the team will go hard in free agency in a class that has a ton of Eric Gordon level of free agents. Trying to build a fringe playoff team next year is probably the worst thing that can happen as the 2014 draft is likely to be the best since 2003 and there are several prospects with legitimate superstar potential that will be going at the top.

 

[Errntknght]

I'm going to assume that the FO made a rational decision when they installed Hunter as the head coach. It follows from that that they will weigh draft/FA/trade choices defensive skills and potential heavily. They will also use Lindsey's ability to recognize those characteristics to the fullest (okay, I'm assuming he has that ability).

A few months ago I said that, IMO, the fastest way to make the franchise into a contender was to focus on acquiring players that could defend in this league, i.e. able to defend man to man as opposed to zone. Defense is undervalued relative to offense for most teams so you get more bang for your buck that way. Also you never have to motivate players to work on their offensive skills while getting a guy to polish his defense is like pulling teeth.

No BS, I said that when Gentry was the coach, though I suppose I might have made it contingent on getting a coach more oriented toward D.