Do you think Nash tries hard on defense?

[Caliballfan]

Do you think the man gives 100% on defense?

If he's quick enough to still zip by his man to make drives into the lane, why isn't he moving his feet to stay in front of his man? At some point he needs to take pride in his defense because its sickening to watch someone who's known as a "High IQ" guy leave hot shooters open and give a passive effort on 1 on 1 defense.

 

[Caliballfan]

the man has been in the MVP discussion for the past 5 years (before this year and last year) and he needs to be held accountable for his play on that end of the court where he's been a liability for ages

 

[Errntknght]

Steve does not zip by his man by dint of footspeed (or acceleration, which is what really needed), he uses deception, including changes of pace and direction, to get his man leaning the wrong way a bit or on the wrong foot. Plus, of course, he uses picks well. Coming up floor he's not slowed by dribbling so he can run all out and it isn't necessary to accelerate in just one or two steps.

I don't recall Steve ever shirking on defense - except for a few times early this year when his heart clearly wasn't in his work. And don't forget opposing bigs cream him regularly with illegal picks - he's probably the biggest target in the whole league. (Our idiots in stripes have completely forgotten what constitutes an illegal screen the last couple of years, and no one suffers from it more than Nash.) Steve actually helps out on D - probably more than he should - but that is how he picks up all those charging calls. If you'll notice, its rarely his own man running over him.

Imagine a 36 year old with chronic backs problems taking hits like that game after game - and along comes some internet twerp with the bball IQ of a squirrel calling him out. Makes me want to puke.

 

[joshstmarie]

and along comes some internet twerp with the bball IQ of a squirrel calling him out.

It boggles my mind that someone could even question nashs desire/effort.

 

[arwillan]

the man has been in the MVP discussion for the past 5 years (before this year and last year) and he needs to be held accountable for his play on that end of the court where he's been a liability for ages

wrong. he's been an mvp for his offensive game and for the fact that he was the best leader in the league. Dirk was even given mvp based almost entirely on his offensive game. We can't hold someone as old as Nash accountable for defense now. We knew he was a terrible defender when we signed him. We can't expect someone (who really doesn't have the tools to be a good defender) to suddenly become one at this stage of his career. He gives 100% effort all the time, and he gives up his already injured body night after night.

 

[TBaslim]

Steve does not zip by his man by dint of footspeed (or acceleration, which is what really needed), he uses deception, including changes of pace and direction, to get his man leaning the wrong way a bit or on the wrong foot. Plus, of course, he uses picks well. Coming up floor he's not slowed by dribbling so he can run all out and it isn't necessary to accelerate in just one or two steps.

I don't recall Steve ever shirking on defense - except for a few times early this year when his heart clearly wasn't in his work. And don't forget opposing bigs cream him regularly with illegal picks - he's probably the biggest target in the whole league. (Our idiots in stripes have completely forgotten what constitutes an illegal screen the last couple of years, and no one suffers from it more than Nash.) Steve actually helps out on D - probably more than he should - but that is how he picks up all those charging calls. If you'll notice, its rarely his own man running over him.

Imagine a 36 year old with chronic backs problems taking hits like that game after game - and along comes some internet twerp with the bball IQ of a squirrel calling him out. Makes me want to puke.

Post of the year for this forum.

 

[AfroSuns]

Post of the year for this forum.

+1

 

[Bufalay]

(Our idiots in stripes have completely forgotten what constitutes an illegal screen the last couple of years, and no one suffers from it more than Nash.)

However, very few have benefited from this shift in officiating more than Nash.

 

[AceP]

wrong. he's been an mvp for his offensive game and for the fact that he was the best leader in the league. Dirk was even given mvp based almost entirely on his offensive game. We can't hold someone as old as Nash accountable for defense now. We knew he was a terrible defender when we signed him. We can't expect someone (who really doesn't have the tools to be a good defender) to suddenly become one at this stage of his career. He gives 100% effort all the time, and he gives up his already injured body night after night.

Exactly the point, veterans like Nash, Hill and Shaq are all already doing what they could. They are flawed, who arn't? Overall they are doing a great job accross the league, Nash is #3 in assist, Shaq is #2 in FG% and and among the elites in PER. There is no point to ask more.

It is SAVER and KERR who is ultimately accountable for this mess. This is a wrong mix of people, FO did a horrible job assembling them.

We can be an elite team with Nash + Amare + Shaq, but only if the rest of the roster is defensive bluecollar guys with experience. I have absolutely no disrespect to J.Rich and Barbosa, they are great players, but they just don't fit the goal of the team. The rest of the team dont even worth to mention.

 

[Errntknght]

However, very few have benefited from this shift in officiating more than Nash.

I'd be interested to know how you come to that conclusion... I haven't observed the Suns setting that many illegal picks - in the first place, they don't set that many picks and Nash is better than most guards at waiting till the screener is set. Granted, failing to get set is not the main problem - its the hip, elbow and knees checks. The dolts are allowing outright trips as often as not.

 

[Chaplin]

Nash ALWAYS gives 100%. The problem is that he's simply not good at man-to-man defense.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Whether you agree with the "effort" premise or not it doesn't really matter if he is trying IMO.

He flat out sucks at defense. He couldn't guard a competent high school player at this point and I think a couple guys at the local YMCA who would take him to school on the defensive end. That was embarassing today and the Celtics just went after who ever he was guarding. He can't even stay in front of slow 3's let alone a PG like Rondo.

I think Nash needs to be traded in the offseason. The fact that he is a complete liability on the defensive end and his shooting is no longer what it used to be and his T.O.'s being up makes me question if his positives outweigh his negatives at this point. The good news is his percieved value is greater then the player he currently is so we could likely get alot from a PG desperate team.

You can call me a twerp if you like but the reality is if you didn't see Nash as THE reason we lost todays game you just weren't paying attention.

The irony is the Celtics wouldn't trade him for Nash straight up at this point and we could have had them both.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Imagine a 36 year old with chronic backs problems taking hits like that game after game - and along comes some internet twerp with the bball IQ of a squirrel calling him out. Makes me want to puke.

The question is unless the NBA is going to allow us some sort of handicap because he happens to be 36 and has back problems does that absolve him of being a complete defensive liability?

I don't really care if he is putting in effort. This isn't the YMCA. This is the NBA. Either you get it done or not.

Don't get me wrong. I love Steve and think before last year he was the best offensive player in the NBA.

But he has regressed enough on defense AND offense that I am having a hard time justifying keeping him around just because of what he has done in the past.

If thats going to be the front office policy then they should have kept DA.

 

[arwillan]

Nash ALWAYS gives 100%. The problem is that he's simply not good at man-to-man defense.

exactly. we can't fault the guy who gives his all and falls short in one aspect of the game. If i gave my 100%, i wouldn't be a good defender either. that's just the way it goes.

 

[Chaplin]

exactly. we can't fault the guy who gives his all and falls short in one aspect of the game. If i gave my 100%, i wouldn't be a good defender either. that's just the way it goes.

There are very few players that are good in both aspects of the game at a superstar level. Kobe, Lebron, Garnett, Duncan--only the biggest stars in the game are superstar level at both offense and defense, certainly no more than 10 in the entire league.

Keep in mind that offensively, Nash is off the charts. He is the ultimate definition of an offensive point guard. It's just unfortunate he can't get to that level defensively, but again, that happens maybe only a few times in a generation.

 

[nashman]

Wow, Nash is one of the few guys in the NBA that puts the effort in night in night out to question whether he trys is just stupid, any true fan can see the effort is there.

 

[Duke of Oysters]

It pained me to see Nash get abused by Rondo and and Pierce. How come you think Gentry didn't let Nash guard Scalabrine and put Barbosa on Rondo? Nash's defense may be bad ... but is Barbosa's even worse?

 

[Chaplin]

It pained me to see Nash get abused by Rondo and and Pierce. How come you think Gentry didn't let Nash guard Scalabrine and put Barbosa on Rondo? Nash's defense may be bad ... but is Barbosa's even worse?

I guess they wanted Barbosa on Ray Allen (JRich on Pierce or Scalabrine while Hill guarded Pierce). Can't really fault Gentry for that. I just wish he would have figured out some way to adjust after it wasn't working, but the Celtics are smart enough that they'd immediately go to Scalabrine if he was being guarded by Nash. Against the Celtics, Nash is just at a bad position given his skill on the defensive end.

 

[Errntknght]

The question is unless the NBA is going to allow us some sort of handicap because he happens to be 36 and has back problems does that absolve him of being a complete defensive liability?

I don't really care if he is putting in effort. This isn't the YMCA. This is the NBA. Either you get it done or not.

Don't get me wrong. I love Steve and think before last year he was the best offensive player in the NBA.

But he has regressed enough on defense AND offense that I am having a hard time justifying keeping him around just because of what he has done in the past.

If thats going to be the front office policy then they should have kept DA.

The poster I was replying to was questioning whether or not Nash gave full effort on the defensive end... d'ya miss that part?

 

[Duke of Oysters]

I guess they wanted Barbosa on Ray Allen (JRich on Pierce or Scalabrine while Hill guarded Pierce). Can't really fault Gentry for that. I just wish he would have figured out some way to adjust after it wasn't working, but the Celtics are smart enough that they'd immediately go to Scalabrine if he was being guarded by Nash. Against the Celtics, Nash is just at a bad position given his skill on the defensive end.

I remember hearing the commentators saying something about Barbosa guarding Scalabrine in the first half. Gentry commented that they decided to switch in the second half, quieting Rondo in the second half.

Anyone remember who was guarding whom most of the time? Rondo and Allen killed the Suns in the first half. Pierce did most of his damage in the second.

Or maybe it's more transitional defense issue. I am saddened that the Suns don't show more recognition in their defense. How many times did we had to watch Ray Allen with an open 3?

Transitional defense ... 1. Stop Ball 2. Find Ray Allen

 

[mojorizen7]

However, very few have benefited from this shift in officiating more than Nash.

The last guy wearing a SUNS uni that had any clue how to set a strong,legal pick was KT. Before that?...........
The SUNS have been horrible at setting screens and picks as long as i can remember.

 

[lou_skywalker]

the effort is there, but he can only take charges. He never contest jumpers.

 

[Caliballfan]

If he used his brain, he wouldn't be sagging off shooters...is staying on your man who's a catch and shoot type player, too hard to ask? He either sags too far or if you put him on PGs he's reluctant to move his feet.

I've seen far more physically inferior players give more effort than Nash. If you think he's giving 100% on defense please take your homer glasses off because he's clearly not. If he was the Suns wouldn't be this bad. He's your first line of defense. Yes he does draw charges from time to time, i'll give him that. And to the poster who said Nash is a victim of the refs...don't even let me begin my lecture on how many moving screens Marion, Diaw and Amare got away with to make the pick and roll work for Nash over the years. Playing one sided ball and a general consensus from everyone showing his inability to play a lick of defense proves he's the least deserving MVP of all time. Shaq and Kobe should've respectively won it in 05 and 06

 

[Errntknght]

...don't even let me begin my lecture on how many moving screens Marion, Diaw and Amare got away with to make the pick and roll work for Nash over the years.

Oh, please give your 'lecture' - it should be hilarious. Marion set, what, about two picks a year? You do know the difference between setting a pick and faking a pick then peeling away to the hoop before the offensive players arrives, don't you? Why do I ask since you obviously do not. Even Boris's moving picks were of a variety the league has allowed for years - Duncan has been doing it for at least six years. Don't you remember him crossing his hands over his crotch and then taking little bitty steps as he bulldozed a defender going under the screen down into the post? I suppose not, even though it was so weird its hard to imagine anyone who pays any attention missing it. Yes, Boris, was very good at picking off defenders going under screens - that's how he got (and still gets) his mismatches in the low post. The league has always been more tolerant of moving into defenders going under screens than going over but now, anything short of flooring the guy is allowed. I don't like that interpretation, but its allowed and its quite widespread. I'm certainly glad that they let other players do what TD has done for years.

Amare faked screens at times and copied Boris occasionally but mostly he set traditional screens and he did move on his share of them. But if you're going to claim the refs gave him more lattitude than other bigs doing the same, I'm going to disagree with you. In that, as in every other way, the refs took particular delight in nailing Amare. Can't say as I blame them too much with all his immature bad behavior but nail his a$$ they did - at every opportunity.

So please, please do lecture away and remove every trace of doubt that you have any idea of what you're talking about.

Dang, with that name I should known I was wasting my time on a troll...

 

[hafey]

I like Nash as much as anyone and as a fellow Santa Clara alum I find Steve to be a successful, worldly, and well spoken representative of my school.

However, for whatever reason, Nash has never received his fair share of the criticism, both locally and nationally, for the Suns failings in the playoffs and Nash's own defensive failings. Just like this thread there are always a lot of excuses for Nash.