Does an O-line make a RB, or does a RB make an O-line???

[mdsisquo]

Chicken or Egg type quiestion. This question has been asked for years, and I don't think it will ever be answered, people will only have their opinions.

One side says "If a RB is truely special, he will be able to run on anybody, and create his own holes. The great ones will find a way to get it done. A great RB will find a way to succeed and make an O-line look great."

The other side says "A great O-line can MAKE a RB look special. It all starts with the guys up front, if the holes are big enough, any RB can run through them."


Personaly, I believe it's a bit of both, but closer to a Great RB making an average O-line look like a Great one.

This was debated for years in Dallas with Emmitt. Some people thought that with the way the Cowboys O-line played, any RB would have had success. Others think that Smith made all those big guys look good.

Emmitt WAS a special player, no doubt. But this year, in AZ we can see how a great RB helps his O-lineman look good. When Smith was our starter, Our O-line was being blasted for not opening up holes big enough for him to succeed. Then, Shipp gets promoted to starter and suddenly, "Hey, our O-line is playing GREAT!" Are you going to tell me that our O-line went from bad to Great in 2 weeks? I find that hard to believe. I think we have a good O-line here, but it's not what I would call great.

What I know, is that we have had one constant (O-line) with two variables (Smith/Shipp) with very, very different results. Simple math should tell us who is to Credit.



Thank you Shipp!

 

[arthurracoon]

I agree

 

[Mr.Dibbs]

Oh, a little philosophy, eh? Well, I agree that this is a topic that must be taken seriously if mankind is to cast off the animalistic legacy of his evolutionary past, and progress to a world in which our better angels are freed to share their glowing light with a peaceful world.

 

[mdsisquo]

Originally posted by Oran
Oh, a little philosophy, eh? Well, I don't want to get on a rant here, but this is a topic that must be taken seriously if mankind is to cast off the animalistic legacy of his evolutionary past, and progress to a world in which our better angels are freed to share their glowing light with a peaceful world.

 

[KingofCards]

The egg came before the Chicken.




As for your question it is a good one. I think any NFL running back can run behind a good line, except Thomas Jones.


Only an outstanding running back can run consistently behind a bad line.

But everything is so dependent on the defense the other team is running... etc. So forget my ramblings.

The egg was first though and if a tree falls in the woods and no one hears it, it still makes a loud noise.

 

[mulpwr]

Both. Example...Priest Holmes and Clinton Portis are great backs. They are helped a lot by outstanding run block schemes,along with very good run blocking offensive lineman makes them even better and throw in the blocking fullbacks of Tony Richardson and Mike Anderson. Jamal Lewis has an ok run blocking line, yet he excels at it.

 

[KingofCards]

Originally posted by mulpwr
Both. Example...Priest Holmes and Clinton Portis are great backs. They are helped a lot by outstanding run block schemes,along with very good run blocking offensive lineman makes them even better and throw in the blocking fullbacks of Tony Richardson and Mike Anderson. Jamal Lewis has an ok run blocking line, yet he excels at it.

Yet you are still 2-6.

I think this kid is in denial.


Wow you stopped Portis. But you lost.

Scoreboard.

 

[Jasper]

An O-line!

Look how Denver's line makes any RB look like a pro-bowler!

Also, a good O-line can pass block which enables the QB more time to pass, which allows a passing game to be established, which in turn open up the running game by getting the linebackers and DBs out of the box!

 

[mdsisquo]

Originally posted by Jasper
An O-line!

Look how Denver's line makes any RB look like a pro-bowler!

Also, a good O-line can pass block which enables the QB more time to pass, which allows a passing game to be established, which in turn open up the running game by getting the linebackers and DBs out of the box!

I take it that you think we have a good O-line then, since Shipp has looked fantastic since he's been starting. But, then why did Smith look soooo bad?

 

[mulpwr]

Originally posted by KingofCards
Yet you are still 2-6.

I think this kid is in denial.


Wow you stopped Portis. But you lost.

Scoreboard.

Does this question have anything to do with the game? Nope it doesn't. If you don't agree with my assessment,offer a rebuttal.

No i am not living in denial and there was nothing in that post suggesting that.

Yes we lost that game but since the Steelers have faced the three running backs i mentioned, an opinion could be evaluated easily.

 

[KingofCards]

Originally posted by mulpwr
Does this question have anything to do with the game? Nope it doesn't. If you don't agree with my assessment,offer a rebuttal.

No i am not living in denial and there was nothing in that post suggesting that.

Yes we lost that game but since the Steelers have faced the three running backs i mentioned, an opinion could be evaluated easily.

Scoreboard Brother.


Maybe you fell into the fallacy of overestimated the value of those running backs.

2-6. Your boys are 2-6.

Evaluating my opinion????

Evalute it. Make sure you get inside and clean out my ************* while your at it.

 

[mulpwr]

What the hell is the homosexual reference for? Are you a ****** or something? Go wipe your own ass.

 

[deployed fan]

Originally posted by KingofCards
The egg came before the Chicken.




As for your question it is a good one. I think any NFL running back can run behind a good line, except Thomas Jones.


Only an outstanding running back can run consistently behind a bad line.

But everything is so dependent on the defense the other team is running... etc. So forget my ramblings.

The egg was first though and if a tree falls in the woods and no one hears it, it still makes a loud noise.

Well..... not exactly. If a tree falls in the woods, it only makes vibrations in the air, which can be recieved as sound.......

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by mulpwr
Both. Example...Priest Holmes and Clinton Portis are great backs. They are helped a lot by outstanding run block schemes,along with very good run blocking offensive lineman makes them even better and throw in the blocking fullbacks of Tony Richardson and Mike Anderson. Jamal Lewis has an ok run blocking line, yet he excels at it.

I agree, though I wonder if Portis is a tad bit overrated by playing behind such a great line. Olandis Gary was great behind that line, and he is a mediocre back. Portis would be a pretty good back running behind any line, but I get the feeling that he isn't as good as we all believe him to be.

 

[Cardiac]

Originally posted by mdsisquo
Emmitt WAS a special player, no doubt. But this year, in AZ we can see how a great RB helps his O-lineman look good. When Smith was our starter, Our O-line was being blasted for not opening up holes big enough for him to succeed. Then, Shipp gets promoted to starter and suddenly, "Hey, our O-line is playing GREAT!" Are you going to tell me that our O-line went from bad to Great in 2 weeks? I find that hard to believe. I think we have a good O-line here, but it's not what I would call great.

What I know, is that we have had one constant (O-line) with two variables (Smith/Shipp) with very, very different results. Simple math should tell us who is to Credit.



Thank you Shipp!

What you seem to be forgetting is that the O-line did get better in this 2 week span.

BIG came back from injury but was still not playing well. After the bye week he has been an animal.

Clement didn't play at all last year. He was getting beat on a regular basis. After the bye week he has been very solid.

Kendall was moved to C in training camp and it has taken him some time to feel truly comfortable at that position.

Spikes is a new addition to the line this year.

This unit finally got some practice time together as a healthy unit during the bye week. The chemistry is finally developing, this is the single most important aspect of an O-lines play. One can find hundreds of articles stating how important it is to keep an O-line together for years so they play as a unit. The one constant for this O-line has been injuries, until recently.

Shipp has done a fantastic job but this O-line is a big part of the reason. Yes they feed off of each other but to simply say Shipp is the main reason this unit is playing better is a jump in logic.

What's truly exciting is that the O-line will continue to get better as they are still developing their chemistry. If they can stay healthy then the sky is the limit.

At this point I feel confident with Shipp, Emmitt or Anderson running behind this unit.

 

[JeffGollin]

Does an O-line make a RB, or does a RB make an O-line???
Yes.

 

[Pariah]

One side says "If a RB is truely special, he will be able to run on anybody, and create his own holes. The great ones will find a way to get it done. A great RB will find a way to succeed and make an O-line look great."

Sure a great RB will make his own holes, but that doesn't make the OL good. When you talk about Barry Sanders' or Walter Payton's greatness, inevitably what comes up is "they did it without a line." It's not as if their greatness all of a sudden catapulted their lines into the HOF.

When you talk about Smith on the other hand, someone always says "My grandmother could have run behind that line." Sure Emmitt is (was?) a talented back, but would he hold the record if not for that line? Who knows, but I say probably not.

So, I think the answer to your original question is yes and no. A great back doesn't make his line great, but a great line can make a back great.