Does Pace really desereve a new contract ?

[Cbus cardsfan]

Pace had a decent year for the Cards but, when you think about it, is he really desreving of any type of big money from the Cards? He's been with the team 5 years and this is the first there has been any production out of him. Like i said in another post, he's had about 10 good games in 5 years and about 8 of them this year. Then you have the fact that he wouldn't even been a starter had Okeafor not gone down in pre-season. I give credit to Pace for taking advantage of his oppurtunity but our starting LB corp was going to be Berry, Dansby, Hayes, and Okeafor. I give the staff credit for getting the most out of Pace this year but i don't want any significant money tied up in a guy who is,so far, a one year wonder,at best. I think the money on Pace could be used to better upgrade the team in other areas. You know the Cards aren't going to re-sign Dansby, Pace,Fitz and then be active free agency. They could do it,but that's not their style. It's kind of been a foregone conclusion that Berry will be released. I would just assume keep Berry,maybe -restructure him, and let Pace go. We can draft a guy in round 2 who can have as much an inpact as Pace and use his money to bring in a Faneca, an upgarde at #3 WR, and a very good FA DB like Trufant or Samuel. The likley scenario is the Cards tag Dansby,re-sign Pace,and let Berry go. I just don't think that is necessarily the best way to go. People say the "light went on" for Pace. I don't buy it and am very skeptical he'll have the same production, which isn't all that great,nice, but nothing out of this world, in the coming years.

 

[CaptTurbo]

No he is not worth a contract put that money towards Suggs and we will get a heck of a lot more production.

 

[Second Deck]

Get Dansby done first. I doubt we can get Suggs if not offer Pace a contract but do not consider him a must have so would not be a huge contract.

 

[slanidrac16]

I just don't understand how anybody wants to let guys walk away who were productive.
I'm not saying offer Pace a contract like Suggs or Dansby will command, but I would rather sign Dansby , Pace, and a CB like Florence rather than just replacing PAce with Suggs.
Dansby is going to be a Cardinal one way or another. There is NO WAY we invest that much of our cap space on 2 LB positions.
You make your team better when you replace an below average player with a better player, not by replacing an good productive player with a better player.

 

[imaCafan]

Faneca and a FA corner, then go DE/OLB and RB rounds 1 & 2.......Suggs would be great but no way we make the Faneca and Suggs moves both. It would be 1 or the other at best. I'll take Faneca......

 

[40yearfan]

I seem to remember a lot of people on here wanting to release Player and Vanden Bosch.

Now those were some great moves.

 

[Mitch]

Pace is really coming into his own...and should be re-signed to a mid-level contract. He wants to remain in Arizona and it's likely that he will accept a reasonable contract to stay here.

Some players start to get it in their 4th and 5th years...and quite frankly I think we sometimes expect too much from 20-21 year old college kids coming into the NFL, especially first day picks.

What we need to remind ourselves of is that the coaching in the organization and the strength and conditioning program are much more formidible, and thus, players like Pace may make far greater strides from year to year because of the coaching and the training.

 

[Stout]

A reasonable, mid-level contract? Sure, I don't see why not. Wouldn't kill the cap (not like that's ever a worry, thanks to plodding Rod), and would hopefully net us a talented guy. Anything more than that and the kid prices himself out of here.

 

[Darth Llama]

I seem to remember a lot of people on here wanting to release Player and Vanden Bosch.

Now those were some great moves.

You're right about Player, that was a good move. Apparently, some people think that just because Barr sucked that cutting Player was a bad move even though he sucked almost as bad. Never understood that, cutting Player was clearly a good move, Player sucks. Vanden Bosch we had little choice on, he was hurt the entire time he was here. Yes it sucks that now he's a very good player, but that's what happens sometimes.

As for Pace, even the idea of not trying to resign him is silly. People complain that he did nothing his first 4 years, but how many chances did he really get? Denny Green never wanted to play him and we all know that when Denny decides he doesn't like you, nothing will get you onto the field. They guy finally gets a chance, and he puts up good numbers and has a solid year and people want to let him walk? I don't get it.

When you total up playing time, this was basically his rookie year. If a player had played like Pace did this year as a rookie we would all be jumping around celebrating how great he's going to be. We need to bring back Pace, we invested in him, it makes no sense to let him walk as soon as he starts showing a return on that investment. Would I offer him top money? No, of course not, but I don't think Pace is going to ask for anything unreasonable. He knows his worth, and he won't be expensive to re-sign. Bring him back!

 

[Stout]

You're right about Player, that was a good move. Apparently, some people think that just because Barr sucked that cutting Player was a bad move even though he sucked almost as bad. Never understood that, cutting Player was clearly a good move, Player sucks. Vanden Bosch we had little choice on, he was hurt the entire time he was here. Yes it sucks that now he's a very good player, but that's what happens sometimes.

As for Pace, even the idea of not trying to resign him is silly. People complain that he did nothing his first 4 years, but how many chances did he really get? Denny Green never wanted to play him and we all know that when Denny decides he doesn't like you, nothing will get you onto the field. They guy finally gets a chance, and he puts up good numbers and has a solid year and people want to let him walk? I don't get it.

When you total up playing time, this was basically his rookie year. If a player had played like Pace did this year as a rookie we would all be jumping around celebrating how great he's going to be. We need to bring back Pace, we invested in him, it makes no sense to let him walk as soon as he starts showing a return on that investment. Would I offer him top money? No, of course not, but I don't think Pace is going to ask for anything unreasonable. He knows his worth, and he won't be expensive to re-sign. Bring him back!

You had a pretty solid post, but this is just plain silly. It's bad enough people make those excuses in a player's second and third seasons, but no matter how bad of a shake he's got, I won't go along with saying it's basically a guy's rookie year in YEAR 5.

 

[40yearfan]

You're right about Player, that was a good move. Apparently, some people think that just because Barr sucked that cutting Player was a bad move even though he sucked almost as bad. Never understood that, cutting Player was clearly a good move, Player sucks. Vanden Bosch we had little choice on, he was hurt the entire time he was here. Yes it sucks that now he's a very good player, but that's what happens sometimes.

As for Pace, even the idea of not trying to resign him is silly. People complain that he did nothing his first 4 years, but how many chances did he really get? Denny Green never wanted to play him and we all know that when Denny decides he doesn't like you, nothing will get you onto the field. They guy finally gets a chance, and he puts up good numbers and has a solid year and people want to let him walk? I don't get it.

When you total up playing time, this was basically his rookie year. If a player had played like Pace did this year as a rookie we would all be jumping around celebrating how great he's going to be. We need to bring back Pace, we invested in him, it makes no sense to let him walk as soon as he starts showing a return on that investment. Would I offer him top money? No, of course not, but I don't think Pace is going to ask for anything unreasonable. He knows his worth, and he won't be expensive to re-sign. Bring him back!

Player might suck in your eyes, but he did a heck of a lot better job than either of the kickers that replaced him. He was good, solid and dependable. As I've stated many times in the past, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just like some people on here even having a thought of trading Fitz. Preposterous doesn't even began to describe that issue.

 

[Darth Llama]

Player might suck in your eyes, but he did a heck of a lot better job than either of the kickers that replaced him. He was good, solid and dependable. As I've stated many times in the past, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just like some people on here even having a thought of trading Fitz. Preposterous doesn't even began to describe that issue.

I guess I just have a different opinion. Player used to be a very good player, but the last 2 seasons he's been getting worse and worse. He needed to be replaced, but using Barr to replace him was a disaster. My problem isn't with letting Player go, my problem is replacing him by someone that wasn't even half as good.

You had a pretty solid post, but this is just plain silly. It's bad enough people make those excuses in a player's second and third seasons, but no matter how bad of a shake he's got, I won't go along with saying it's basically a guy's rookie year in YEAR 5.

Fair enough, I see where you're coming from. I usually don't do that either, but the guy played almost never in 4 years. Is he like a rookie? No, because he had 4 years to learn the NFL game. But before this season, he saw less playing time in 4 years then a lot of rookies see in 1-2 years. The only point is the guy has only had one real chance, and he made the most of it.

 

[earthsci]

Player might suck in your eyes, but he did a heck of a lot better job than either of the kickers that replaced him.

I thought Mitch Berger did fine.

 

[40yearfan]

I thought Mitch Berger did fine.

Not any better than Player and it probably cost us at least one game to get to the point of where Berger came in.

 

[Redheart]

... . He's been with the team 5 years and this is the first there has been any production out of him...

That is not true, Pace was starting to break out in a couple of games right before he fell through the plate glass window in his home while horsing around.

That was the thing about that accident, he was starting to play like we saw him play this year. I was excited to see his higher level of play coincide with an opportunity to play, I think Berry went down with his arm injury, and BAM! Pace goes out too.

After that he was in the dog-house and the opportunity to play again didn't come until...Berry went down again.

Pace is really coming into his own...and should be re-signed to a mid-level contract. He wants to remain in Arizona and it's likely that he will accept a reasonable contract to stay here.

Some players start to get it in their 4th and 5th years...and quite frankly I think we sometimes expect too much from 20-21 year old college kids coming into the NFL, especially first day picks.

What we need to remind ourselves of is that the coaching in the organization and the strength and conditioning program are much more formidible, and thus, players like Pace may make far greater strides from year to year because of the coaching and the training.

Great post Mitch. Pace is EXACTLY the the type of player you want to resign, for the right price, which I think they can for the reasons you state.

I think EVERY Colt player starting in this year's play-off game, has always been a Colt. They have raised their whole team through the draft. When are we going to learn not to let our good draft picks get away?

:stillhasvandenboschjersey:

 

[earthsci]

Not any better than Player and it probably cost us at least one game to get to the point of where Berger came in.

That's a far cry from what you said though. I'm not denying that Barr was a disaster. Player did not do "a heck of a lot better job" than Berger and Berger's game didn't cost us any games. It wasn't hard to replace Player, we just did it with the wrong person.

 

[Pariah]

I seem to remember a lot of people on here wanting to release Player

I still think it was a good idea to release Player. We should have done it a year sooner.

 

[Skkorpion]

By the way, I think I read about 8 months back that Ron Minegar was the team's capologist and vetted all contracts. Could be wrong but don't think so.

If Rod Graves and Pace's agent can't make a deal, the market will determine Calvin Pace's value. Either way, I put a 75 to 80% probability on Calvin signing with us. We are a good fit with each other.

If somebody else offers Calvin truly big money, he's gone and the correct decision will have been made by both Calvin and the Cards.

Not losing any sleep over it.

 

[Captain Matt]

Most of 'em were only Colts.... But there are a few exceptions like: TJ Rushing, Jeff Saturday, Ben Utechet, Adam Vinatieri, and Mike Toudouze. A lot of key reserves were free agents as well. But I get the point. You draft based on talent and need then structure your team personnel-wise and financially around the assumption that those players will turn out to be "who we thought they were."

But, in an era of salary caps this is true for alomst all of the teams out there. We all know about the key FA positions filled by the Pats this season, but if you look at their roster MANY of the other positions are filled by players who were drafted. I think the distinction we need to make is that the "core" of your team should be drafted players, but you need to find quality FAs that "fit" (financially and scheme-wise) to push you to the next level.

 

[Stout]

By the way, I think I read about 8 months back that Ron Minegar was the team's capologist and vetted all contracts. Could be wrong but don't think so.

If Rod Graves and Pace's agent can't make a deal, the market will determine Calvin Pace's value. Either way, I put a 75 to 80% probability on Calvin signing with us. We are a good fit with each other.

If somebody else offers Calvin truly big money, he's gone and the correct decision will have been made by both Calvin and the Cards.

Not losing any sleep over it.

Agree on all points. He's definitely good enough to re-sign, but not good enough to give huge money to. I also think he will stay for a reasonable contract, because he's a good fit and because teams won't break the bank on him.

I also have just now decided that I think Suggs would be a great addition. He fits our system and would give us a pro-bowler at a position of need. With Okeafor coming off injury, Pace finally showing something, and Berry in need of a pay cut or a true cut, some good cap and contract work and the addition of Suggs would take a weak position and make it a strength on defense. If we sign Pace to a market contract, Berry takes a paycut, and Okeafor is healthy...and we add Suggs....wow.

 

[joeshmo]

He is not going to get a big deal. It will be somewhere around what Hayes got and it will be deserved and still not hurt the cap for other pieces.

 

[Goodyear Card]

Agree on all points. He's definitely good enough to re-sign, but not good enough to give huge money to. I also think he will stay for a reasonable contract, because he's a good fit and because teams won't break the bank on him.

I also have just now decided that I think Suggs would be a great addition. He fits our system and would give us a pro-bowler at a position of need. With Okeafor coming off injury, Pace finally showing something, and Berry in need of a pay cut or a true cut, some good cap and contract work and the addition of Suggs would take a weak position and make it a strength on defense. If we sign Pace to a market contract, Berry takes a paycut, and Okeafor is healthy...and we add Suggs....wow.

I feel a lot better about Pace and Chike at OLB than I do about Green and Hood at CB. If we are going to spend big money on a free agent I would like to see it spent at CB.

 

[az1965]

Suggs is not coming here, keep dreaming.

It was not Pace's fault that he was picked up by a genious GM in first round. He was at best a 3rd rounder and took him 4-5 years to develop with not much playing time due to being backup. Now that he seems to be coming on his own, you want to get rid of him?

 

[Darth Llama]

Suggs is not coming here, keep dreaming.

It was not Pace's fault that he was picked up by a genious GM in first round. He was at best a 3rd rounder and took him 4-5 years to develop with not much playing time due to being backup. Now that he seems to be coming on his own, you want to get rid of him?

Agreed. People seem to blame Pace for the fact that we reached to draft him. Pace is turning into a very solid player, letting him go would be a huge mistake.

 

[Goodyear Card]

Agreed. People seem to blame Pace for the fact that we reached to draft him. Pace is turning into a very solid player, letting him go would be a huge mistake.

I would like to see Pace on the team but is always possible someone will offer him a big money contract and he will leave.