Doesn't Rod Graves contract end at the end of next season?

[the_future23]

We want a new GM. Don't re-sign him.

 

[Buckybird]

Let's get the petition rolling and the protests at the games going!!!

 

[TJ]

Yes, he is on the last year of his contract.

 

[ActingWild]

I find it more likely that he'll be extended. I have no insider sources but I get the impression that Graves is a puppet for what the Bidwill's want, so why would they let him go...especially since we just won the NFC?

 

[splitsecond]

If the team continues to be successful this year, he won't go anywhere, and quite frankly I wouldn't want him to. We just went to the superbowl, and very few people seem open to the idea that maybe he has finally come up with a method that works. This season will tell all.

 

[Stout]

If he can't get ANY extensions done this season, let alone more than one, then the team shouldn't even consider bringing him back. He doesn't make the calls on who we draft or who we sign in FA (so the board has said), so if he can't get extensions done, uh, why keep him?

 

[binkar]

Graves isn't going anywhere. The last thing we need is another "get Graves outta here!" thread, but it amazes me how everyone hates this guy. We were an awful team when he came here and we are now NFC champs while having a very young roster. So we haven't given players new deals the second they ask for one, so what. Are we really ignorant enough to believe that the top GM's in the league would adhere to all the players requests? We are in an unfortunate situation because some of our key players are represented by Drew Rosenhaus and he has his way of doing things. He has drafted tremendously over the last 5+ years. I just don't understand the reasoning here.

 

[az jam]

When Denny Green got fired, Graves got a new contract with a significant raise. Go figure that one out!!!

 

[TigToad]

Graves has never gotten anything but blame for the problems of the Cardinals.

I don't think people remember how this team was run financially in the before times, in the long-long ago.

His ability to get the extensions done that need to be done has been good. Dansby will be his first real failure as a GM IMO, and that would have been done had Dansby not fired his agent and gone rogue. THat move seriously hindered the Cardinals in other ways as well. The issue might have been franchising Dansby this year instead of letting him walk, but that move would have brought a huge firestorm of Graves hate down.

Q and DD can whine about contracts all they want, its not their turn. Its Wilson's turn, I hope Dansby doesn't screw that up.

 

[40yearfan]

No wonder the rest of the NFL looks at Cardinal fans with a cocked eye. We finally field a winning team and our fans want to fire the GM who got us there. Unbelievable.

 

[Unsterblich856]

No wonder the rest of the NFL looks at Cardinal fans with a cocked eye. We finally field a winning team and our fans want to fire the GM who got us there. Unbelievable.

He fielded the winning team but that winning team is slowly pealing apart due to contracts, which is Graves's business.

 

[Stout]

Graves has never gotten anything but blame for the problems of the Cardinals.

I don't think people remember how this team was run financially in the before times, in the long-long ago.

His ability to get the extensions done that need to be done has been good. Dansby will be his first real failure as a GM IMO, and that would have been done had Dansby not fired his agent and gone rogue. THat move seriously hindered the Cardinals in other ways as well. The issue might have been franchising Dansby this year instead of letting him walk, but that move would have brought a huge firestorm of Graves hate down.

Q and DD can whine about contracts all they want, its not their turn. Its Wilson's turn, I hope Dansby doesn't screw that up.

Hold the phone. The disasterous draft-day trade is also on Graves.

Graves does deserve a lot of credit but, IMO, not in an active way. Graves has done an excellent job of sitting back and managing egos (organizational, not player egos) while letting the football minds make the football decisions. By not becoming headstrong and getting too involved, he managed to keep the team from throwing tons of money away in FA, and in so doing proved me wrong in my dislike for that philosophy.

Considering this, it stands to reason that the blame for recent FA failures/short-time roster members (Holt, Johnson, Hood) should belong elsewhere. Graves lets the football guys make those kinds of calls, so he shouldn't be to blame for them failing. Yes, blame their contract structure on him, and blame the ramifications of that on him, but that's all.

The big, big, big problem I have with Graves now is his lack of any kind of speed or urgency in contract negotiations/re-negotiations. And I mean, glacial lack of speed. Fitz? Took us forever to resolve that one. Dansby? Couldn't get it done, and now in all likelihood won't. Warner? Took too long to get done, but some blame can be spread around on that one. Boldin? Should have kept his big mouth shut, so Boldin would have less verbal ammo. Wilson? If that deal doesn't get done this offseason, Graves should immediately go.

The problem is, although Graves is less at fault for many problems than most people (myself included) usually admit, he doesn't really bring much to the table. His main responsibility is negotiating contracts, and he's not been much good at it. Ergo, if he does not work hard and get some good deals done this offseason, IMO, there is no reason to keep him. His GM style is far too passive to succeed in the NFL. No, I'm not talking about aggressiveness or passivity in FA; I mean that he doesn't take the lead in enough football decisions. We need a guy who really can be a true GM, who can run a FO, take the responsibility, and move with decisive action. I'm afraid Graves isn't that kind of person.

 

[Stout]

No wonder the rest of the NFL looks at Cardinal fans with a cocked eye. We finally field a winning team and our fans want to fire the GM who got us there. Unbelievable.

Easy, 40. Read my post and then re-think this. Rod Graves didn't get us here, IMO. He just got out of the way of the people who DID get us here. And, instead of fulfilling his one major role (contracts), he's failing in that aspect.

 

[40yearfan]

Easy, 40. Read my post and then re-think this. Rod Graves didn't get us here, IMO. He just got out of the way of the people who DID get us here. And, instead of fulfilling his one major role (contracts), he's failing in that aspect.

Disagree. Graves has the final say-so in the draft. Urban stated as much. Now he might go completely with Whis or the scouting department making the picks, but he still has the ability to follow his own path. He's smart enough to realize that his crew know a lot more about talent than he does. Not all GM's are like that. Suppose we get a GM who thinks he knows more than Whis and Keim? How long will it take until he Cards are just the same old Cards again?

Why do people think we are the only NFL team with disgruntled players? They all have them. When you have this many people participating, you are bound to have some egos bruised, especially in a winning environment. We've never had the talent we have on this team now. Trying to balance all of these true NFL stars and keep them all happy is almost impossible. There isn't enough money to go around.

As someone else in this thread said, "Look at the 85 Bears".

 

[bg7brd]

Hold the phone. The disasterous draft-day trade is also on Graves.

Graves does deserve a lot of credit but, IMO, not in an active way. Graves has done an excellent job of sitting back and managing egos (organizational, not player egos) while letting the football minds make the football decisions. By not becoming headstrong and getting too involved, he managed to keep the team from throwing tons of money away in FA, and in so doing proved me wrong in my dislike for that philosophy.

Considering this, it stands to reason that the blame for recent FA failures/short-time roster members (Holt, Johnson, Hood) should belong elsewhere. Graves lets the football guys make those kinds of calls, so he shouldn't be to blame for them failing. Yes, blame their contract structure on him, and blame the ramifications of that on him, but that's all.

The big, big, big problem I have with Graves now is his lack of any kind of speed or urgency in contract negotiations/re-negotiations. And I mean, glacial lack of speed. Fitz? Took us forever to resolve that one. Dansby? Couldn't get it done, and now in all likelihood won't. Warner? Took too long to get done, but some blame can be spread around on that one. Boldin? Should have kept his big mouth shut, so Boldin would have less verbal ammo. Wilson? If that deal doesn't get done this offseason, Graves should immediately go.

The problem is, although Graves is less at fault for many problems than most people (myself included) usually admit, he doesn't really bring much to the table. His main responsibility is negotiating contracts, and he's not been much good at it. Ergo, if he does not work hard and get some good deals done this offseason, IMO, there is no reason to keep him. His GM style is far too passive to succeed in the NFL. No, I'm not talking about aggressiveness or passivity in FA; I mean that he doesn't take the lead in enough football decisions. We need a guy who really can be a true GM, who can run a FO, take the responsibility, and move with decisive action. I'm afraid Graves isn't that kind of person.

Do you actually know this as fact or is it speculation?

 

[PoolBoy]

keep him. im with 40 year.

 

[Stout]

Disagree. Graves has the final say-so in the draft. Urban stated as much. Now he might go completely with Whis or the scouting department making the picks, but he still has the ability to follow his own path. He's smart enough to realize that his crew know a lot more about talent than he does. Not all GM's are like that. Suppose we get a GM who thinks he knows more than Whis and Keim? How long will it take until he Cards are just the same old Cards again?

Why do people think we are the only NFL team with disgruntled players? They all have them. When you have this many people participating, you are bound to have some egos bruised, especially in a winning environment. We've never had the talent we have on this team now. Trying to balance all of these true NFL stars and keep them all happy is almost impossible. There isn't enough money to go around.

As someone else in this thread said, "Look at the 85 Bears".

And that's fine, as far as it goes. If he played mostly a passive role with recruiting/drafting talent, but did a bang-up job getting contracts done, I wouldn't have a complaint with him. To me, he doesn't approach that level of competence with player contracts. Not by a long shot.

As to having disgruntled players? Eh, who cares. Let 'em whine. Sure, as a fan I'll get upset about it from time to time, but player whining doesn't really matter. I certainly won't put it down on Graves, save for a small part of the Q matter.

 

[Stout]

Do you actually know this as fact or is it speculation?

I've put it together by piecing together what we hear on this board from the media and by what is commonly held opinion on the board. I can't say it's 100 percent accurate, but it's how it seems to me.

 

[TigToad]

I edited out some of your comments, at least the ones i mostly agree with or can accept at face value. A few responses though.

1: I really didn't have a huge issue with that horrible trade down. What I had the issue with was the horrible choices made with the 2 1st round picks. Trading #10 for two picks in the late teens isn't a bad deal, it was the insistance on taking a DE and a WR with those two picks when there weren't any great ones available that hurt my brain. That was on McGinnis if I got that story correctly. He insisted on those two positions and that was what our scouts/Graves/whoever could come up with.

2: I agree that more speed/urgency in free agency would be satifying as a fan, but when I look at the body of work (he got these Docket and Boldin deals done which they now hate, he got Fitz in under cap somehow, he got Wilson resigned on his first deal, he even got Warner back).. he gets his man, and the Cardinal policy of no big name free agents really hasn't made that speed an important factor. Even today, the only Cardinal that he can realistically restructure is Dansby, we are cap strapped for the other deals.. and Karlos looks to be away from the table.. thats not on Graves.

3: I don't want decisive action, if those actions are bad. A lot of teams work fast and bad... most of the best teams don't make huge splashes on day 1 of free agency, etc. Those things are exciting for desperate pre-season fans, but they don't really make a good football team. What makes a good football team is a strong philosophy and the ability to stick to that philosophy. I'm not unhappy with our direction or signings. Even the 'big name' players we've lost in the last few years (Pace, Big, uh... ) got deals that weren't reasonable compared to their ability.

Either way, Go Cardinals.

Hold the phone. The disasterous draft-day trade is also on Graves.

Considering this, it stands to reason that the blame for recent FA failures/short-time roster members (Holt, Johnson, Hood) should belong elsewhere. Graves lets the football guys make those kinds of calls, so he shouldn't be to blame for them failing. Yes, blame their contract structure on him, and blame the ramifications of that on him, but that's all.

The big, big, big problem I have with Graves now is his lack of any kind of speed or urgency in contract negotiations/re-negotiations. And I mean, glacial lack of speed. Fitz? Took us forever to resolve that one. Dansby? Couldn't get it done, and now in all likelihood won't. Warner? Took too long to get done, but some blame can be spread around on that one. Boldin? Should have kept his big mouth shut, so Boldin would have less verbal ammo. Wilson? If that deal doesn't get done this offseason, Graves should immediately go.

The problem is, although Graves is less at fault for many problems than most people (myself included) usually admit, he doesn't really bring much to the table. His main responsibility is negotiating contracts, and he's not been much good at it. Ergo, if he does not work hard and get some good deals done this offseason, IMO, there is no reason to keep him. His GM style is far too passive to succeed in the NFL. No, I'm not talking about aggressiveness or passivity in FA; I mean that he doesn't take the lead in enough football decisions. We need a guy who really can be a true GM, who can run a FO, take the responsibility, and move with decisive action. I'm afraid Graves isn't that kind of person.

 

[Stout]

I edited out some of your comments, at least the ones i mostly agree with or can accept at face value. A few responses though.

1: I really didn't have a huge issue with that horrible trade down. What I had the issue with was the horrible choices made with the 2 1st round picks. Trading #10 for two picks in the late teens isn't a bad deal, it was the insistance on taking a DE and a WR with those two picks when there weren't any great ones available that hurt my brain. That was on McGinnis if I got that story correctly. He insisted on those two positions and that was what our scouts/Graves/whoever could come up with.

2: I agree that more speed/urgency in free agency would be satifying as a fan, but when I look at the body of work (he got these Docket and Boldin deals done which they now hate, he got Fitz in under cap somehow, he got Wilson resigned on his first deal, he even got Warner back).. he gets his man, and the Cardinal policy of no big name free agents really hasn't made that speed an important factor. Even today, the only Cardinal that he can realistically restructure is Dansby, we are cap strapped for the other deals.. and Karlos looks to be away from the table.. thats not on Graves.

3: I don't want decisive action, if those actions are bad. A lot of teams work fast and bad... most of the best teams don't make huge splashes on day 1 of free agency, etc. Those things are exciting for desperate pre-season fans, but they don't really make a good football team. What makes a good football team is a strong philosophy and the ability to stick to that philosophy. I'm not unhappy with our direction or signings. Even the 'big name' players we've lost in the last few years (Pace, Big, uh... ) got deals that weren't reasonable compared to their ability.

Either way, Go Cardinals.

Okay, on the trade, yer gonna lose that argument Your other two points...I don't necessarily disagree. You must remember, I'm not upset about lack of speed in FA...any more. That used to be a pet peeve of mine, but I've gottem beyond that. I'm not getting on Graves for that any more, so no need to argue.

Oh, but that trade. Yeah, when you trade down in the 1st, you don't also GIVE UP another pick (4th rounder), AND trade BACK in the 2nd round, to get a deal to happen. If a team wants to trade up, you either make THEM give up extra, or you don't do the deal. We gave up a 4th rounder and traded back in the 2nd, which might have caused us to miss Boldin. Luckily it didn't, but that's really all it is: dumb luck. I've seen people try to praise Graves for the trade because we got Boldin out of it. No, we got Boldin IN SPITE of it. Throw in the fact that most people didn't think it was a deep draft at the top, and that we desperately needed a pass rusher and a good one was available, and it was a HORRENDOUS trade.

 

[binkar]

Easy, 40. Read my post and then re-think this. Rod Graves didn't get us here, IMO. He just got out of the way of the people who DID get us here. And, instead of fulfilling his one major role (contracts), he's failing in that aspect.

Who got us here? And who hired the people who got us here?

 

[lauraw]

Thoughtful Reading, Stout! Please write more on this. Who did get us here, and overall as a team where are we?yesterday a coworker[rabid longtime[Staubach] Dallas Fan] said about the Cards,"one year wonders" and "falling apart" .......Bit^^! TigToad... it was pick #6, not pick #10 that we traded for Byant Johnson and Calvin Pace. We got Ripped in the media... What other players were available at those 2 spots we picked that year in the draft.. What was the complete 1st rd that year? Can someone help me? I want to know if the plan was sound but the implentation poor, which would seem to exonerate Graves. He didn't have final say back then did he? Uh oh, in that case...
By the way, who is McCreight[not sure of first name] in the front office, could his role expand..

 

[Crazy Canuck]

If he can't get ANY extensions done this season, let alone more than one, then the team shouldn't even consider bringing him back. He doesn't make the calls on who we draft or who we sign in FA (so the board has said), so if he can't get extensions done, uh, why keep him?

At the end of any negotiation, Rod has to walk into Michael's office and seek approval. It would be the same for any other GM.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Staying with Whiz's beliefs.

They should bring in someone to compete with Rod Graves.

I have a serious problem with the speed, and efficiency that Graves handles extensions.

Adrian Wilson deserves an extension, and there is no good reason that anyone could tell me that would give Graves & Co. an excuse why it has not happened already.

That is a problem. Any way you approach the situation, it comes to the fact that the situation is still not addressed, and that is just plain wrong.

Dansy, and Warner got there money.

Boldin and Dockett are complaining.

Yet, the guy that deserves the money, has earned the money, and has approached the situation with class has yet to be paid.

My problem with Graves starts there.

Did I mention the fact that Graves in inefficient ? Like the ridiculous time it took to re-do Fitz's deal, and to sign Warner.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Graves isn't going anyhwere.If he didn't get canned during the early 2000's fiasco of teams that were fielded then he sure isn't going to get canned after the team amkes it's first Super Bowl appearance. I personally would like to see a more pro-active GM but, get used to it, Graves is who we're stuck with, like it, or not. Bringing in the new guy,whatever his role is, is a start for grooming a replacement but that won't be for a few years.