the_future23
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We want a new GM. Don't re-sign him.
He fielded the winning team but that winning team is slowly pealing apart due to contracts, which is Graves's business.No wonder the rest of the NFL looks at Cardinal fans with a cocked eye. We finally field a winning team and our fans want to fire the GM who got us there. Unbelievable.
Graves has never gotten anything but blame for the problems of the Cardinals.
I don't think people remember how this team was run financially in the before times, in the long-long ago.
His ability to get the extensions done that need to be done has been good. Dansby will be his first real failure as a GM IMO, and that would have been done had Dansby not fired his agent and gone rogue. THat move seriously hindered the Cardinals in other ways as well. The issue might have been franchising Dansby this year instead of letting him walk, but that move would have brought a huge firestorm of Graves hate down.
Q and DD can whine about contracts all they want, its not their turn. Its Wilson's turn, I hope Dansby doesn't screw that up.
No wonder the rest of the NFL looks at Cardinal fans with a cocked eye. We finally field a winning team and our fans want to fire the GM who got us there. Unbelievable.
Easy, 40. Read my post and then re-think this. Rod Graves didn't get us here, IMO. He just got out of the way of the people who DID get us here. And, instead of fulfilling his one major role (contracts), he's failing in that aspect.
Hold the phone. The disasterous draft-day trade is also on Graves.
Graves does deserve a lot of credit but, IMO, not in an active way. Graves has done an excellent job of sitting back and managing egos (organizational, not player egos) while letting the football minds make the football decisions. By not becoming headstrong and getting too involved, he managed to keep the team from throwing tons of money away in FA, and in so doing proved me wrong in my dislike for that philosophy.
Considering this, it stands to reason that the blame for recent FA failures/short-time roster members (Holt, Johnson, Hood) should belong elsewhere. Graves lets the football guys make those kinds of calls, so he shouldn't be to blame for them failing. Yes, blame their contract structure on him, and blame the ramifications of that on him, but that's all.
The big, big, big problem I have with Graves now is his lack of any kind of speed or urgency in contract negotiations/re-negotiations. And I mean, glacial lack of speed. Fitz? Took us forever to resolve that one. Dansby? Couldn't get it done, and now in all likelihood won't. Warner? Took too long to get done, but some blame can be spread around on that one. Boldin? Should have kept his big mouth shut, so Boldin would have less verbal ammo. Wilson? If that deal doesn't get done this offseason, Graves should immediately go.
The problem is, although Graves is less at fault for many problems than most people (myself included) usually admit, he doesn't really bring much to the table. His main responsibility is negotiating contracts, and he's not been much good at it. Ergo, if he does not work hard and get some good deals done this offseason, IMO, there is no reason to keep him. His GM style is far too passive to succeed in the NFL. No, I'm not talking about aggressiveness or passivity in FA; I mean that he doesn't take the lead in enough football decisions. We need a guy who really can be a true GM, who can run a FO, take the responsibility, and move with decisive action. I'm afraid Graves isn't that kind of person.
Disagree. Graves has the final say-so in the draft. Urban stated as much. Now he might go completely with Whis or the scouting department making the picks, but he still has the ability to follow his own path. He's smart enough to realize that his crew know a lot more about talent than he does. Not all GM's are like that. Suppose we get a GM who thinks he knows more than Whis and Keim? How long will it take until he Cards are just the same old Cards again?
Why do people think we are the only NFL team with disgruntled players? They all have them. When you have this many people participating, you are bound to have some egos bruised, especially in a winning environment. We've never had the talent we have on this team now. Trying to balance all of these true NFL stars and keep them all happy is almost impossible. There isn't enough money to go around.
As someone else in this thread said, "Look at the 85 Bears".
Do you actually know this as fact or is it speculation?
Hold the phone. The disasterous draft-day trade is also on Graves.
Considering this, it stands to reason that the blame for recent FA failures/short-time roster members (Holt, Johnson, Hood) should belong elsewhere. Graves lets the football guys make those kinds of calls, so he shouldn't be to blame for them failing. Yes, blame their contract structure on him, and blame the ramifications of that on him, but that's all.
The big, big, big problem I have with Graves now is his lack of any kind of speed or urgency in contract negotiations/re-negotiations. And I mean, glacial lack of speed. Fitz? Took us forever to resolve that one. Dansby? Couldn't get it done, and now in all likelihood won't. Warner? Took too long to get done, but some blame can be spread around on that one. Boldin? Should have kept his big mouth shut, so Boldin would have less verbal ammo. Wilson? If that deal doesn't get done this offseason, Graves should immediately go.
The problem is, although Graves is less at fault for many problems than most people (myself included) usually admit, he doesn't really bring much to the table. His main responsibility is negotiating contracts, and he's not been much good at it. Ergo, if he does not work hard and get some good deals done this offseason, IMO, there is no reason to keep him. His GM style is far too passive to succeed in the NFL. No, I'm not talking about aggressiveness or passivity in FA; I mean that he doesn't take the lead in enough football decisions. We need a guy who really can be a true GM, who can run a FO, take the responsibility, and move with decisive action. I'm afraid Graves isn't that kind of person.
I edited out some of your comments, at least the ones i mostly agree with or can accept at face value. A few responses though.
1: I really didn't have a huge issue with that horrible trade down. What I had the issue with was the horrible choices made with the 2 1st round picks. Trading #10 for two picks in the late teens isn't a bad deal, it was the insistance on taking a DE and a WR with those two picks when there weren't any great ones available that hurt my brain. That was on McGinnis if I got that story correctly. He insisted on those two positions and that was what our scouts/Graves/whoever could come up with.
2: I agree that more speed/urgency in free agency would be satifying as a fan, but when I look at the body of work (he got these Docket and Boldin deals done which they now hate, he got Fitz in under cap somehow, he got Wilson resigned on his first deal, he even got Warner back).. he gets his man, and the Cardinal policy of no big name free agents really hasn't made that speed an important factor. Even today, the only Cardinal that he can realistically restructure is Dansby, we are cap strapped for the other deals.. and Karlos looks to be away from the table.. thats not on Graves.
3: I don't want decisive action, if those actions are bad. A lot of teams work fast and bad... most of the best teams don't make huge splashes on day 1 of free agency, etc. Those things are exciting for desperate pre-season fans, but they don't really make a good football team. What makes a good football team is a strong philosophy and the ability to stick to that philosophy. I'm not unhappy with our direction or signings. Even the 'big name' players we've lost in the last few years (Pace, Big, uh... ) got deals that weren't reasonable compared to their ability.
Either way, Go Cardinals.
Easy, 40. Read my post and then re-think this. Rod Graves didn't get us here, IMO. He just got out of the way of the people who DID get us here. And, instead of fulfilling his one major role (contracts), he's failing in that aspect.
If he can't get ANY extensions done this season, let alone more than one, then the team shouldn't even consider bringing him back. He doesn't make the calls on who we draft or who we sign in FA (so the board has said), so if he can't get extensions done, uh, why keep him?