Don't Fall For It!

[ASUCHRIS]

At $14-$15 million a year? No thanks.

Also, to say Arizona doesn't have that defined #2 pitcher is a bit far fetched considering they have a guy by the name of Hernandez who has pretty much been a staff ace his entire career, who has a World Series ring and who eats innings like Russ Ortiz chows down pancakes at the local IHOP.

Granted, he's no Johan Santana, but Arizona could do a hell of a lot worse with their #2 pitcher.

Also, would I like to see Arizona go out and get that bg time bat? Sure, but at what expense? This season, the lack of available bats was apparent, and sorry to say, spending $136 million for Soriano or $75 million for JD Drew wasn't something I wished to see Arizona do.

Maybe they could still get Aubrey Huff to play one of the corner OF positions, but in actuality the chances are, the team you see now will be the one you get come Opening Day.

Just remember, the great teams weren't built overnight. This team won't be either, and it may be a few more years of medocrity, but when they click, I see them being one of the top teams in MLB. Maybe that's blind optimism, but I really do forsee this.

You think Hernandez is a number 2 on a contending team? The guy is basically a .500 pitcher and an inning eater at this point. To expect anything else would be pretty hopeful. I like the young base of the team and think that with a few moves we could be pretty competitive. Unfortunately, we have an ownership group that cries poor at any mention of the current salary structure, and a group unwilling to pay market value for players. I really wish the team was bought by somebody who had the financial means to make this team a consistent contender, unfortunately Kendrick and the boys don't seem to be that group.

 

[Diamondback Jay]

You think Hernandez is a number 2 on a contending team? The guy is basically a .500 pitcher and an inning eater at this point. To expect anything else would be pretty hopeful. I like the young base of the team and think that with a few moves we could be pretty competitive. Unfortunately, we have an ownership group that cries poor at any mention of the current salary structure, and a group unwilling to pay market value for players. I really wish the team was bought by somebody who had the financial means to make this team a consistent contender, unfortunately Kendrick and the boys don't seem to be that group.

If he's not a #2, he's a strong #3.

Who, besides Zito, can be defined in this year's pitching market as an upgrade? I don't consider Ted Lilly or Gil Meche much of an upgrade. Schmidt? I know a lot of people were in love with the guy, but with the elbow history he's had, is he the answer for an otherwise young team?

I'll give Byrnes the benefit of the doubt here. The guy got someone in Doug Davis who has similar numbers to Zito, but comes a hell of a lot cheaper.

As for everyone else, I dunno.. We all saw what happened last time Arizona went out and spent the major bucks.. It didn't turn out too pleasantly.

 

[HooverDam]

Plus didn't we win a world series with a 1B who didn't hit many homeruns but hit for average? CoJack has one of the most pure strokes I've seen.

Don't be stupid. Sure the World Series team had a 1B that hit for average, but they also had a slugger in left field who hit 57HRs. CoJack has a nice stroke, but has hands of stone. He and Tracy's skills sets are too damned similar, they both hit for average and play below average D. Move on or the other in order to get power at a corner.

 

[coyoteshockeyfan]

Don't be stupid. Sure the World Series team had a 1B that hit for average, but they also had a slugger in left field who hit 57HRs. CoJack has a nice stroke, but has hands of stone. He and Tracy's skills sets are too damned similar, they both hit for average and play below average D. Move on or the other in order to get power at a corner.

You make it sound like having two guys who can hit .300 is a hinderance. Well, it isn't.

 

[Espo]

Don't be stupid. Sure the World Series team had a 1B that hit for average, but they also had a slugger in left field who hit 57HRs. CoJack has a nice stroke, but has hands of stone. He and Tracy's skills sets are too damned similar, they both hit for average and play below average D. Move on or the other in order to get power at a corner.

I'm not being stupid. What did Gonzo do before or after that 57 HR performance? He hadn't given any indication that he would hit anything like that. He was a surprise that season and the lineup seemed like it might lack pop at the time. You under estimate both Jackson and Tracy. Tracy had 27 HR's two years ago and its only his 4th year in the bigs and its Jackson's 2nd full season. Power can still develop and half of the 26 doubles he hit last year might find their way over the fence this year.

 

[devilfan02]

I'm starting to get sick of people who label CoJack as something after one full year in the bigs. Certain people are very quick to suggest trading CoJack because he has "no power". Did it ever dawn on some of you that he will most likely develop 30+ HR/100+ RBI power????? He struggled some in his first year but still managed to hit .290, 80 RBI's, and had a .370 OBP. I'd say thats damn good for a rookie. He already has the hardest part figured out- plate discipline. He will never be an Albert Pujols type slugger but I would bet top dollar his power will develop. His glove is a totally different argument. He needs to improve his defense drastically which can still be done. Albert Pujols was once regarded as one of the worst defensive 1B and now he's a gold glover.

 

[overseascardfan]

At $14-$15 million a year? No thanks.

Also, to say Arizona doesn't have that defined #2 pitcher is a bit far fetched considering they have a guy by the name of Hernandez who has pretty much been a staff ace his entire career, who has a World Series ring and who eats innings like Russ Ortiz chows down pancakes at the local IHOP.

Granted, he's no Johan Santana, but Arizona could do a hell of a lot worse with their #2 pitcher.

Also, would I like to see Arizona go out and get that bg time bat? Sure, but at what expense? This season, the lack of available bats was apparent, and sorry to say, spending $136 million for Soriano or $75 million for JD Drew wasn't something I wished to see Arizona do.

Maybe they could still get Aubrey Huff to play one of the corner OF positions, but in actuality the chances are, the team you see now will be the one you get come Opening Day.

Just remember, the great teams weren't built overnight. This team won't be either, and it may be a few more years of medocrity, but when they click, I see them being one of the top teams in MLB. Maybe that's blind optimism, but I really do forsee this.

Now that we are out of the Mulder sweepstakes, why not take a chance on Zito? He is the top FA left and is the ace on all but a hand full of clubs. What do you think a SP's rate is these days, especially one with Zito's credentials. If Oswalt, Carpenter, Halladay, and Hudson got 13-15 mil a year which they did and guys like Meche get 11 mil, Zito is in their league so 13-14 million would seem reasonable to me for him. Who else are we going to spend the money on that's worth it?

 

[Espo]

Now that we are out of the Mulder sweepstakes, why not take a chance on Zito? He is the top FA left and is the ace on all but a hand full of clubs. What do you think a SP's rate is these days, especially one with Zito's credentials. If Oswalt, Carpenter, Halladay, and Hudson got 13-15 mil a year which they did and guys like Meche get 11 mil, Zito is in their league so 13-14 million would seem reasonable to me for him. Who else are we going to spend the money on that's worth it?

Where is the $100M to pay him going to come from?

 

[Diamondback Jay]

I'll lend them five bucks.

 

[overseascardfan]

Where is the $100M to pay him going to come from?

Wasn't there talk of going after Carlos Lee, and other FA's. Plus where did the money used to bid on Makasuka (sp??) come from? Did they offer a 1 million dollar bid, on him too?

 

[coyoteshockeyfan]

Wasn't there talk of going after Carlos Lee, and other FA's. Plus where did the money used to bid on Makasuka (sp??) come from? Did they offer a 1 million dollar bid, on him too?

The Matsuzaka bid was in the 8 figure range.

 

[Espo]

Wasn't there talk of going after Carlos Lee, and other FA's. Plus where did the money used to bid on Makasuka (sp??) come from? Did they offer a 1 million dollar bid, on him too?

Oh I agree I think that they should have the money but the claim is that they don't because of differed payments. If they can't find more than a million to offer a pitcher who wants to come here and may have accepted a little less to do so I just don't see them finding $100M for Zito. This is a horrible offseason for a cash strapped team because there aren't any real "bargains" .

 

[overseascardfan]

Oh I agree I think that they should have the money but the claim is that they don't because of differed payments. If they can't find more than a million to offer a pitcher who wants to come here and may have accepted a little less to do so I just don't see them finding $100M for Zito. This is a horrible offseason for a cash strapped team because there aren't any real "bargains" .

I just feel that with the talk last year of freeing up money for guys like Zito and Mulder was just a ploy to get everyone to not focus on this offseason rather than last years, and it was all for not. There was never any interest in Zito as a FA and the whole Mulder situation is a disaster but I don't blame the organization for Mulder. Just frusturating

 

[Diamondback Jay]

So, now that the Brewers have signed Jeff Suppan to a 4 year, 42 milliom dollar deal, makes you wonder what Zito's asking price is going to be.

Trust me, the term "DON'T FALL FOR IT" comes to life especially now.

 

[Forrestham]

I cant fault the dbacks for not getting in bidding wars for mediocre pitching. Is Suppan worth that kind of money. NO
It is better to let a good player walk then to overpay someone. Are some of you upset we did not win the bidding war for Gil Meche or Matthews Jr? they would nhot help us win a world series. Yes we do need pitching but not at that cost

 

[overseascardfan]

So, now that the Brewers have signed Jeff Suppan to a 4 year, 42 milliom dollar deal, makes you wonder what Zito's asking price is going to be.

Trust me, the term "DON'T FALL FOR IT" comes to life especially now.

Suppan - 4yrs 42 million
Meche - 5 yrs 55 million

Zito's 15 million demand is warranted with those two signings.

 

[Diamondback Jay]

It is warranted.. Does that mean I want Arizona to get in the bidding for him? Nope. I say let the Angels or Mets have him at that price tag.

 

[Stan C]

Using the ESPN salary figures, I figured the current salary is around $32,000,000. I've read reports ownership plans to stay near $60 mill, are they paying $20 million in deferred payments? I'm sure the ESPN salaries are not current or not completely accurate, but it's a big difference in what I see in the papers.
I think both some of the skepticism and optimism is warranted. However, if Eric Byrnes is the replacement for a crowd favorite like Gonzo, plus trading salary like Sean Green, and not finding a real slugger or pitcher they are going to lose a lot of following.
We may be new baseball town, but we don't have our heads in the sand. I've not been impressed so far, but I'll give it a year or so.

 

[Espo]

Using the ESPN salary figures, I figured the current salary is around $32,000,000. I've read reports ownership plans to stay near $60 mill, are they paying $20 million in deferred payments? I'm sure the ESPN salaries are not current or not completely accurate, but it's a big difference in what I see in the papers.
I think both some of the skepticism and optimism is warranted. However, if Eric Byrnes is the replacement for a crowd favorite like Gonzo, plus trading salary like Sean Green, and not finding a real slugger or pitcher they are going to lose a lot of following.
We may be new baseball town, but we don't have our heads in the sand. I've not been impressed so far, but I'll give it a year or so.

I'm sorry but anyone who is upset over Gonzo being gone is being more sentimental than actually being a baseball minded fan. Byrnes is cheaper than Gonzo and is going to give better production plus is less of a defensive liability. The team is young and upcoming and this isn't a great market to pick up good talent at good prices. Plus most of the following this team gained after the World Series had gone away in the last 4 years anyways.

 

[coyoteshockeyfan]

Suppan - 4yrs 42 million
Meche - 5 yrs 55 million

Zito's 15 million demand is warranted with those two signings.

You are running under the assumption that Zito will only command $15M.

 

[overseascardfan]

You are running under the assumption that Zito will only command $15M.

I've heard 6 yrs 100 million which equals 16.667 million, sorry.

But if he gets 6 yrs 90 million then it would be 15 million a year.

 

[shoewizard]

Using the ESPN salary figures, I figured the current salary is around $32,000,000. I've read reports ownership plans to stay near $60 mill, are they paying $20 million in deferred payments? I'm sure the ESPN salaries are not current or not completely accurate, but it's a big difference in what I see in the papers.
I think both some of the skepticism and optimism is warranted. However, if Eric Byrnes is the replacement for a crowd favorite like Gonzo, plus trading salary like Sean Green, and not finding a real slugger or pitcher they are going to lose a lot of following.
We may be new baseball town, but we don't have our heads in the sand. I've not been impressed so far, but I'll give it a year or so.

Pos   Player   Salary    
C    Snyder     400,000    
1b   Jackson    400,000    
2b   Hudson   5,000,000   Est. Arb 
3b   Tracy    2,750,000    
ss   Drew       700,000    
lf   Byrnes   5,000.000    
cf   Young      380,000    
rf   Quentin    380,000    
 
Bench          
c    Montero    380,000    
u1   Callaspo   380,000    
u2   Hammock?   380,000    
of   Davanon  1,250,000    
1b   Clark    1,000,000    
 
Rotation          
1   Webb      4,500,000    
2   Hernandez 7,000,000    
3   Davis     4,500,000   Est. Arb 
4   En. Gon?    380,000    
5   Ed.Gon ?    380,000    
 
Bullpen          
Cl  Valverde  1,200,000   Est. Arb 
RHP Viscaino  2,300,000   Est. Arb 
RHP Medders     380,000    
RHP Pena        380,000    
RHP Cruz      1,200,000   Est. Arb 
LHP Lyon      1,200,000    
LHP Slaten      380,000    
 
Callups       1,000,000 
S Green       5,000,000 
Ortiz         8,000,000 
Total        56,200,000

 

[coyoteshockeyfan]

I've heard 6 yrs 100 million which equals 16.667 million, sorry.

But if he gets 6 yrs 90 million then it would be 15 million a year.

Ok, let's assume Barry Zito would sign for $100M with the Diamondbacks. Not only would that be the only major free agent signing we could make this season, it would be the only major free agent signing we could make for the next 2-3 seasons, perhaps longer. In essence, we would be putting all of our eggs in one basket. Is Zito the one guy you are willing to put such a marquee tag on for the next several years? If the Diamondbacks are going to spend that kind of money on one player, they are going to have to make it count. If it doesn't work, this franchise will be set back another several seasons.

 

[overseascardfan]

Ok, let's assume Barry Zito would sign for $100M with the Diamondbacks. Not only would that be the only major free agent signing we could make this season, it would be the only major free agent signing we could make for the next 2-3 seasons, perhaps longer. In essence, we would be putting all of our eggs in one basket. Is Zito the one guy you are willing to put such a marquee tag on for the next several years? If the Diamondbacks are going to spend that kind of money on one player, they are going to have to make it count. If it doesn't work, this franchise will be set back another several seasons.

Okay your misunderstanding me, I said he is asking for that much, I did not say the D-back's will sign him for that much because I know they won't. I would love to have him for 15 million because aces that actually do make to FA will be asking for that much if not more next year. Do I want to risk signing him and no one else for awhile, um let me think, sure. Who did they sign last year, this year, I'll wait. Who will they sign next year, probably no one because premier players won't reach FA, ie Vernon Wells. Plus those that reach FA will want more than 15-16 million because salaries and contract offers increase every year to where most teams will overpay and leave the D'backs high and dry and saying wait until next year.

Coyote, do you think Zito is worth 15-16 million? Or should I say is that a fair deal for someone with his credentials, mind you this isn't Meche or Suppan.

 

[Stan C]

where did you get the 2007 figures? Not questioning you, just always looking for better sources.