dont feel bad, we got it too.

[LV-Suns]

Show me, I'm here to debate in a civil manner. Whatis the extent of Amare's ability to get off his own shot?

How about watching a game?
I'm not planning to go on youtube for it

 

[jbeecham]

Nice well thought out response

Still no answer to how many potential game winners Amare has taken, b/c he hasn't, he's never carried a team to the Finals. He never will until Nash retires.

You're forgetting the 1 major problem that Dallas has been lacking for years and that's an inside presence on offense. Amare brings that and Dirk never has. Dirk may be one of the top jumpshooters in the league, but he's not a force on the block that draws double teams in the paint to get shooters open on the wings. Amare can also provide his team with energy and excitement with his ferocious dunks and vicious blocks. Dirk is a great shooter, but he's really more of a 7ft SG/SF.

 

[greensborohill]

How about watching a game?
I'm not planning to go on youtube for it

I've watched a ton of Suns games

 

[Bufalay]

Show me, I'm here to debate in a civil manner. Whatis the extent of Amare's ability to get off his own shot?

he's pretty good at getting his own shot. It seems strange that you don't know that. He's quick off the dribble. If he doesn't get by his man with his first step, many times he can just elevate and hit a shot over them. It's a pretty effective offensive game.

Isn't he one of the most efficient offensive players in the NBA right now?

 

[greensborohill]

You're forgetting the 1 major problem that Dallas has been lacking for years and that's an inside presence on offense. Amare brings that and Dirk never has. Dirk may be one of the top jumpshooters in the league, but he's not a force on the block that draws double teams in the paint to get shooters open on the wings. Amare can also provide his team with energy and excitement with his ferocious dunks and vicious blocks. Dirk is a great shooter, but he's really more of a 7ft SG/SF.

Dirk draws double teams in the midpost and has become a good passer out of the post when the double comes (which now is all the time). Amare is a black hole in that sense is he not? Points in the paint have always been an issue. Kidd helps with that. To what extent? That remains to be seen.

I guess now I can accuse a suns fan of not watching Mavs games. Dirk has been killing people by finding the open man of the double for two years now.

 

[jbeecham]

Show me, I'm here to debate in a civil manner. Whatis the extent of Amare's ability to get off his own shot?

We've gone to Amare a lot at the end of games and let him create his own shot off of the dribble and he can usually score over or around whomever is trying to guard him or he's going to get a foul called on them. He can do it against anyone and he did it over Duncan today. Maybe he's not as clutch as Dirk shooting a jumper in the final seconds, but I have confidence in giving him the ball in the last 4-5 minutes of the game and letting him go to work.

He's really added to his arsenal also by becoming almost automatic on his 15-18ft jumper. Team's give him that shot because guys are afraid of his ability to drive past them off the dribble. Then once he's hitting that shot they have to play him closer and he uses his quickness to go right around them. He's still improving his back to the basket game and has added in a turn-around fadeaway jumper and occasionally a hook shot that are both pretty effective. Amare's been a real bright spot for us this season (one of the few).

Dirk is still a hell of a player, but he takes the power out of power forward.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Amare is an unstoppable offensive machine who eats Dirks for breakfast.

The only reason Dirk takes the game winning shot is because the rest of his team is unreliable, and he's seven feet tall. It's not Amare's fault that he has a great supporting cast, yet he still puts up great numbers and %s.

But you seem to forget he is nationally known as soft and a choker who folds under pressure, and didn't deserve his MVP award.

 

[greensborohill]

Amare is an unstoppable offensive machine who eats Dirks for breakfast.

The only reason Dirk takes the game winning shot is because the rest of his team is unreliable, and he's seven feet tall. It's not Amare's fault that he has a great supporting cast, yet he still puts up great numbers and %s.

But you seem to forget he is nationally known as soft and a choker who folds under pressure, and didn't deserve his MVP award.

Can we stop with the sensationalism and the jabs, and have you actually bring something to the discussion?

 

[Phade]

Nice well thought out response

Still no answer to how many potential game winners Amare has taken, b/c he hasn't, he's never carried a team to the Finals. He never will until Nash retires.

take dirks junk out of your mouth all i hear is mumbling..

 

[greensborohill]

take dirks junk out of your mouth all i hear is mumbling..

I'm not Shaq ordering dinner. I don't mumble.

Nice btw.

 

[greensborohill]

We've gone to Amare a lot at the end of games and let him create his own shot off of the dribble and he can usually score over or around whomever is trying to guard him or he's going to get a foul called on them. He can do it against anyone and he did it over Duncan today. Maybe he's not as clutch as Dirk shooting a jumper in the final seconds, but I have confidence in giving him the ball in the last 4-5 minutes of the game and letting him go to work.

He's really added to his arsenal also by becoming almost automatic on his 15-18ft jumper. Team's give him that shot because guys are afraid of his ability to drive past them off the dribble. Then once he's hitting that shot they have to play him closer and he uses his quickness to go right around them. He's still improving his back to the basket game and has added in a turn-around fadeaway jumper and occasionally a hook shot that are both pretty effective. Amare's been a real bright spot for us this season (one of the few).

Dirk is still a hell of a player, but he takes the power out of power forward.

I found the proof on youtube. Amare is very capable of creating his own shot, he just doesn't have to do it as often as Nowitzki does. . .which is a great luxury to have. Thank goodness for the arrival of Kidd.

 

[Phade]

I'm not Shaq ordering dinner. I don't mumble.

Nice btw.

lol i dont like dirk so of course i think amare is 300 times better than dirk..

i think agent zero has hit plenty of game winning shots that really doesn't mean anything..

 

[jbeecham]

I found the proof on youtube. Amare is very capable of creating his own shot, he just doesn't have to do it as often as Nowitzki does. . .which is a great luxury to have. Thank goodness for the arrival of Kidd.

Kidd is one of the best at creating for others and finding guys wide open. The real problem with Kidd is that he's an inconsistent outside shooter, especially with the game on the line. Luckily for you guys, you have Dirk, Howard & Terry all capable of making that final shot because Kidd's inability to hit a jumpshot or finish around the basket gets really annoying really fast once you've watched him for a while.

I think that's why most Suns fans were happy that you guys got rid of Devin Harris & Diop when you traded for Kidd. We know Kidd's limitations and how he can crack (or brick) under pressure. Now his defense (which used to be pretty good) has slowed with his age & after the microfracture and he can't stay with quick guards anymore (neither can Nash).

 

[greensborohill]

Kidd is one of the best at creating for others and finding guys wide open. The real problem with Kidd is that he's an inconsistent outside shooter, especially with the game on the line. Luckily for you guys, you have Dirk, Howard & Terry all capable of making that final shot because Kidd's inability to hit a jumpshot or finish around the basket gets really annoying really fast once you've watched him for a while.

I think that's why most Suns fans were happy that you guys got rid of Devin Harris & Diop when you traded for Kidd. We know Kidd's limitations and how he can crack (or brick) under pressure. Now his defense (which used to be pretty good) has slowed with his age & after the microfracture and he can't stay with quick guards anymore (neither can Nash).

There was obvious concern about that. But the folks at DB.com had an idea that just playing off of Dirk would make him a better shooter (this played out with JET, look at his stats w/ ATL compared to w/ DAL).

And so far it has played out with Kidd. He's shooting 47% from the field compared to 36% w/ NJN and he's 11 of 18 from 3. The real fear is his on the ball D which isn't as good as it used to be, but atleast he is a great ballhawk.

 

[SirStefan32]

Show me, I'm here to debate in a civil manner. Whatis the extent of Amare's ability to get off his own shot?

Well, he can post up and play the power game. If you put a bigger guy on him, he will drive to the hoop and dunk on you. If you back off, he will shoot a jumper. As different as Dirk and Amare are, they have that in common- they can score on anybody in every way imaginable. Amare is tougher and stronger, and Dirk is an amazing shooter.

Dirk is THE MAN on his team; Amare is not. You see Dirk taking big shots because he is the best player on his team. Amare doesn't get to because Nash is the man on his team.

While Dirk is an amazing player, there is no chance I would take him over Amare. It's hard to objectively compare the the because they are so different, but in my book, being a stong, athletic power forward is better than a shooter. Again, it's subjective, but it's just my opinion.

 

[greensborohill]

Alright Suns Nation.

Be happy, great win for you guys 2night. I will talk to you later!

 

[arwillan]

Dirk draws double teams in the midpost and has become a good passer out of the post when the double comes (which now is all the time). Amare is a black hole in that sense is he not? Points in the paint have always been an issue. Kidd helps with that. To what extent? That remains to be seen.

I guess now I can accuse a suns fan of not watching Mavs games. Dirk has been killing people by finding the open man of the double for two years now.

i think he meant down on the low block, not on the high or mid block. Amare actually is a very good passer out of double teams (which looks even better than it is because he is surrounded by good shooters). I watch dallas all the time because i like kidd a lot. i know just how good dirk is and has been, but as i said earlier you simply can't compare amare and dirk. they're far too different. Ignore suns fans who hate dirk and say stupid things about him. The guy has got game, and we've known this for years. if i was looking for a solid leader for my team who i can look for to, at very least, have the nuts to take the game-winner give me dirk any day. If i want youth athleticism, explosiveness, inside scoring, and energy give me amare. That's the only comparison is between the two.

Nice to see you back green.

 

[jbeecham]

There was obvious concern about that. But the folks at DB.com had an idea that just playing off of Dirk would make him a better shooter (this played out with JET, look at his stats w/ ATL compared to w/ DAL).

And so far it has played out with Kidd. He's shooting 47% from the field compared to 36% w/ NJN and he's 11 of 18 from 3. The real fear is his on the ball D which isn't as good as it used to be, but atleast he is a great ballhawk.

A motivated Kidd is a great thing, he plays well with a chip on his shoulder. When the Suns 1st traded him to NJ, he was pissed and focused and played out of his mind (getting NJ to the finals twice in the weak east). Right now he feels like he has something to prove again since most experts bashed the trade (like Shaq). Mavs fans just have to hope that he keeps that motivation and that Devin Harris doesn't turn into the next Tony Parker in the next year or two.

I kinda feel bad for Mavs fans though because I'm sure they have to see constant closeups of Kidd's big headed children sitting in the stands.

 

[passenger]

I think Kidd will help the Mav,

the guy passes the ball perfectly,averages rebound almost like a PF-center,the only think about him is his scoring,he has never been a threat behind the arc.

Mavs' Terry and Stackhouse has to step up more.Even Howard is not playing as good as earlier this year.

And they have to get rid of D.George,fans dislike him after he blocked the trade.

 

[arwillan]

I think Kidd will help the Mav,

the guy passes the ball perfectly,averages rebound almost like a PF-center,the only think about him is his scoring,he has never been a threat behind the arc.

Mavs' Terry and Stackhouse has to step up more.Even Howard is not playing as good as earlier this year.

And they have to get rid of D.George,fans dislike him after he blocked the trade.

they can't get rid of george anymore, it's too late. they won't wave him now because he is contributing somewhat, and you can never have enough defenders come playoff time. also, kidd is a threat from beyond the arc. he shoots 38% this year (same as raja) and 34% from his career. while he is no shooting juggernaut, he has to be respected.

 

[PoolBoy]

lol i didnt realize youtube was good for analyzing talent. did you guys see that squirrel that waterskis on youtube? olympics are right around the corner for that guy. give me a break. dirk cannot score inside, hes a 7 foot good shooter who feasts on being taller than everyone and guarding small forwards. when are people going to wake up about this guy. he's highly overrated. and greensboro talks about carrying a team to victory? losing to the 8 seed last year. theres an MVP.

 

[Lorenzo]

this is a silly debate. I side with the folks who say this is apples and oranges. but the things that make them different give each respective teams problems when they play each other. dirk is the mavs' head scorer and offensive leader. even with kidd here now....anyone who has truly watched dallas can't say dirk doesn't carry this team on his shoulders offensively. and he has averaged about 30 per game with kidd even in games that he shot the ball horribly because he's playing closer to the basket. nothing wrong with dirk's outside game. he is a freak of nature and no one can stop him when his shot is falling. and dirk choking? amare has choked in the playoffs a few times as well.

 

[jbeecham]

Amare has choked in the playoffs a few times as well.

I'd like to see some stats to back this up. Now if you mean defensively then I guess you have a point, but the guy averaged 37ppg against the Spurs the year before he had microfracture. Amare has always seemed to step up his scoring and rebounding in the playoffs.

Here's some numbers for you:

06-07 - He averaged 25.3 ppg and 12.1 rpg in last years playoffs, up from 20.4 ppg and 9.6 rpg in the regular season.

04-05, 29.9 ppg and 10.7 rpg in the playoffs. Up from 26 ppg & 8.9 rpg in the regular season.

02-03 (his rookie year), he averaged 14.2 ppg and 7.8 rpg against Tim Duncan & the Spurs.

We didn't make the playoffs in 03-04 after trading Marbury & Penny mid-season for cap space and he missed 05-06 after the microfracture.

 

[greensborohill]

lol i didnt realize youtube was good for analyzing talent. did you guys see that squirrel that waterskis on youtube? olympics are right around the corner for that guy. give me a break. dirk cannot score inside, hes a 7 foot good shooter who feasts on being taller than everyone and guarding small forwards. when are people going to wake up about this guy. he's highly overrated. and greensboro talks about carrying a team to victory? losing to the 8 seed last year. theres an MVP.

It sux that we lost to G State, but for you to say Dirk didn't carry his team to the Finals is a joke and to see that he doesn't carry his team now is a joke. Look at the stark contrast between the recent Jazz, Lakers, & Spurs games with the Rox loss. You tell me he didn't "carry" the Mavs past the Suns in game 5 of the 2006 Playoffs when he dropped 50 on Timmy T's head. You tell me he didn't will himself to the rim on that and 1 versus the Spurs in GAME 7 of the WC Semis. Please, with a straight face tell me that that isn't carrying his team and taking the burden of the wins and losses. The crap part is, all of you (and by this I mean the media (except Stein) and fans of other teams) choose to remember G State and the Finals (and even some of you have admitted that the Finals were a joke where Wade and Dirk did not receive fair treatment) when there are even more instances where he has come up huge when nobody else could get it done.

I'm telling you right now, from someone who's watched all the games in the past 5 seasons, Dirk is the franchise, he's the go to guy, and he is the leader. Avery spewing his "we need a vocal leader" BS is wearing thin with fans and with the team. All we really need is a coach who won't choke and make bone head decisions like a) move the teams hotel during the Finals b) Play small versus GState c) Sit Kidd in the final seconds versus SAS. And most of all we need a coach that is willing to take as much accountability as his start player does.

But I digress. . . . . Dirk is as good as everyone else has been saying he is.

And to your point about feasting on smaller players. . . . go ahead and put the bigs on him and see what happens then? He's a matchup nightmare.

Lastly, be sure to answer my question about those playoff instances and whether or not you think they constitute Dirk carrying a team. Because I'd love to see how you explain them away.

K, thnx

 

[cobbler]

Amare is an unstoppable offensive machine who eats Dirks for breakfast.

unstoppable unless he's going against Bynum. *grin*