Double Teaming Nash: The Solution?

[Absolute Zero]

So what is the Suns counter to the double teams on Nash? It seems like they've had a couple of chances now to come up with something effective, but haven't done it yet. We have to make them pay for it somehow.

 

[myrondizzo]

maybe we could try to hit a few of our open threes.

 

[Absolute Zero]

There you go. But if we are cold.... Isn't there some way our guys can attack the basket if Nash is drawing 2 defenders. I'm sure Diaw could whip an extra pass if necessary. We can't just rely upon outside shots totally.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

with our offense it's all about the threes. we're getting the looks we want. i mean, during the regular season we didn't get as many open looks at the three as we did last game. difference was, we made 'em. now we're ice cold. we don't really have finishers. diaw is okay around the rim, but still soft and misses layups b/c he's not going hard to throw it down. marion's hands have been clubs when he's been inside. it's one of the oddest things. he NEVER had butter fingers like this before this playoffs. i mean, when he went into his shell in the playoffs in previous seasons it was always his shot that deserted him, but when he had chances to finish around the hoop he was usually able to do so. this year he just can't catch the ball most of the time!

that said, i am confident that if they keep leaving our three point gunners this open we're gonna run 'em. we just need to get back to our norm. jeez, we don't even have to get hot, just back to our norm!

 

[Gaddabout]

Thomas and Marion have to take guys off the dribble ... and convert.

 

[Absolute Zero]

I haven't been able to watch any of the games, where are they bringing the double team on Nash from?

 

[Gaddabout]

I haven't been able to watch any of the games, where are they bringing the double team on Nash from?

Top of the key. They are forced into doing it when Cassell's on the floor. They're trying to pinch Nash to move the ball to the wing (either by passing or dribbling), which disrupts the timing and spacing of the offense.

 

[jbeecham]

I think Marion's gotten scared around the basket because the Lakers kept undercutting him when he went for alley-oops.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Thomas and Marion have to take guys off the dribble ... and convert.

i wish i could agree. unfortunately marion had difficulty taking KAMAN off the dribble. he does a stupid little stutterstep when he begins his move which slows him down and allows a defender to recover.

when i see marion with the ball and he doesn't shoot it immediately i automatically start thinking turnover. i hate that. that's the way i thought about chambers towards the END of his career.

i'd like to see thomas do it more often. he was fairly explosive in some of the lakers series. i think his leg is still bothering him a bit. not a lot, but just enough to slow his drives to the hole.

also, remember, brand has been an incredible defender thus far in this series. even when our "quicks" like barbs or nash get by him he's still quick and long enough to recover and swat our shots.

 

[Chaplin]

Thomas and Marion have to take guys off the dribble ... and convert.

Call me crazy, but the guy I think can take guys off the dribble when Steve is getting doubled is Raja Bell. When he gets the opportunity to handle the ball (which is rare), he usually makes very good decisions--his career game a couple days ago was a very good example of that. He really is known on this board as a defensive stopper and a guy that shoots 3s. But there's a lot more to his game that everyone has been ignoring. The Clippers expect Boris and Steve to handle the ball the most. Let's try giving it to Raja and see if he can create, draw some fouls, find some open men--those that are unguarded because the defenders are spending too much time on Nash.

 

[Chaplin]

I think Marion's gotten scared around the basket because the Lakers kept undercutting him when he went for alley-oops.

Totally disagree. He's not scared around the basket--the problem is his damn hands. They're like butter out there--I've never seen him fumble as many passes as he has during these playoffs.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

my other question is this . . . why not run the pick 'n roll to the interior rather than to the exterior. they keep running steve from key to outside where he's more likely to get trapped by the sideline. why not run the pick n' role from the wing to the paint where nash has more freedom and diaw can still roll to the hole at an angle?

 

[Gaddabout]

Call me crazy, but the guy I think can take guys off the dribble when Steve is getting doubled is Raja Bell. When he gets the opportunity to handle the ball (which is rare), he usually makes very good decisions--his career game a couple days ago was a very good example of that. He really is known on this board as a defensive stopper and a guy that shoots 3s. But there's a lot more to his game that everyone has been ignoring. The Clippers expect Boris and Steve to handle the ball the most. Let's try giving it to Raja and see if he can create, draw some fouls, find some open men--those that are unguarded because the defenders are spending too much time on Nash

Raja is a very underrated all-around player, but if he's left open, he needs to shoot the 3. The Clips left Marion unguarded in the corners in Game 2 and he tanked. They left him unguarded in Game 3 and he killed them. So they left Raja this team, and Raja poured in 30+, but the Suns lost. I think they'll probably continue taking their chances on Raja shooting behind the line while forcing Marion and Thomas -- especially Thomas -- to do something besides stand around waiting for an open 3-point look.

 

[Gaddabout]

my other question is this . . . why not run the pick 'n roll to the interior rather than to the exterior. they keep running steve from key to outside where he's more likely to get trapped by the sideline. why not run the pick n' role from the wing to the paint where nash has more freedom and diaw can still roll to the hole at an angle?

I'm wondering if they should run the offense through Diaw in the low-post, a little Princeton wrinkle. Let him find cutters or move the ball around a little more to force the Clips perimeter defenders to turn their hips away from the 3-point line.

 

[Chaplin]

Raja is a very underrated all-around player, but if he's left open, he needs to shoot the 3. The Clips left Marion unguarded in the corners in Game 2 and he tanked. They left him unguarded in Game 3 and he killed them. So they left Raja this team, and Raja poured in 30+, but the Suns lost. I think they'll probably continue taking their chances on Raja shooting behind the line while forcing Marion and Thomas -- especially Thomas -- to do something besides stand around waiting for an open 3-point look.

What a valuable piece of advice.

Raja is NOT going to be open every single time he touches the ball. I'm saying that we should let him have a little bit more freedom to create when he has it--we've seen he can do it--I remember several fast breaks where he led the break and sometimes finished (something Nash had problems doing). And to say that whenever Raja has a big offensive game, we lose, is just nonsense.

 

[Chaplin]

I'm wondering if they should run the offense through Diaw in the low-post, a little Princeton wrinkle. Let him find cutters or move the ball around a little more to force the Clips perimeter defenders to turn their hips away from the 3-point line.

We could do that except for 2 things: 1) He isn't big enough to take Brand and/or Kaman down low, and 2) He would be doubled immediately because his length gives him the chance to score there. And can he handle double-teams yet?

 

[Gaddabout]

What a valuable piece of advice.

Raja is NOT going to be open every single time he touches the ball. I'm saying that we should let him have a little bit more freedom to create when he has it--we've seen he can do it--I remember several fast breaks where he led the break and sometimes finished (something Nash had problems doing). And to say that whenever Raja has a big offensive game, we lose, is just nonsense.

[passing the high-blood pressure pills to Chaplin]

Perhaps I didn't communicate well in the last post:

- The Clippers were leaving Raja open daring him to shoot. I suspect they'll continue to use his man for the double team.

- They're making a concerted effort to find Thomas and, after Game 3, Marion behind the line.

- I'm not saying Raja having a good O game = Suns loss, but I think they're less concerned about him doing that game-to-game. If Raja's going to be the Suns leading scorer, I think the Clips will take that. And if he drives, he's less likely to get the big guys in foul trouble than Thomas or Marion.

 

[elindholm]

- The Clippers were leaving Raja open daring him to shoot.

I don't think so. I think they were just losing track of him. Daring Bell to shoot is a very stupid idea, and I doubt that Dunleavy is that dumb.

Chasing Marion off of the three-point line is stupid, however. If I were an opposing coach, I'd say let him fire away. Even in his "good" game (Game 3), he was only 3-7 from long distance. Big deal.

 

[Nash]

Diaw needs to start getting aggressive like he did in a few playoff games -was it Game 6,7 vs the Lakers? He was driving to the hoop with his mind made up that he was going to dunk it over the defenders.
This will help bring another dimension to our game instead of depending purely on the 3 pointer.

I hope Thomas and Barbs get back their 3 pont shooting touch. If Thomas gets going, we could have a good game on our hands.

 

[Gaddabout]

Chasing Marion off of the three-point line is stupid, however. If I were an opposing coach, I'd say let him fire away. Even in his "good" game (Game 3), he was only 3-7 from long distance. Big deal.

I thought the same thing, but they were daring him to put the ball on the floor in Game 4. Of course, he kept shooting them with defenders in his face and went 0-for-4.

 

[Nash]

I have to agree with the fact that Raja is pretty good when he drives to the hoop. He showed glimpses of it in Game 7 against the Lakers. And once or twice the previous game.

Doing that on a regular basis would open up so many possibilities , make his defender stand further away to cover for the drive and add more dimension to our game.
We look flat when we keep jacking up bricks and seem to not know how else to score in such situations. We need to keep the scoreboard ticking and not let them go on 7-10 point runs.
We gifted a few points to them late last game when no one was guarding the post and guys like Radman were scoring at will. That needs to be tightened up.

Eddie House has had problems mainly because they guard him well and his lack of height blocks out his view of the basket. Probably do it the Harlem Globetrotters way with House hoisted on Pat Burke's shoulders for a few open 3's. This, to close out the quarters would be great!

 

[elindholm]

Probably do it the Harlem Globetrotters way with House hoisted on Pat Burke's shoulders for a few open 3's. This, to close out the quarters would be great!

LOL, is that even legal?

 

[jibikao]

- The Clippers were leaving Raja open daring him to shoot.

I don't think so. I think they were just losing track of him. Daring Bell to shoot is a very stupid idea, and I doubt that Dunleavy is that dumb.

Chasing Marion off of the three-point line is stupid, however. If I were an opposing coach, I'd say let him fire away. Even in his "good" game (Game 3), he was only 3-7 from long distance. Big deal.

Yes, not to mention Marion is our best offensive rebounder. Let him take long jumpers and we'll get no offensive rebounds at all.

 

[sly fly]

Concentrate on the glass, put some asses on their rebounders, stay out of foul trouble, and don't put them on the line....

... The Clippers won't have time to double Nash. PHX really needs to step up the full-court tempo to get some easy shots (which should help get things started from outside).

(I'm basically just repeating what's been said over and over and over. Don't need to be a rocket scientist to know that if PHX hits the jumper, they're tough to outscore.)

 

[Nash]

Probably do it the Harlem Globetrotters way with House hoisted on Pat Burke's shoulders for a few open 3's. This, to close out the quarters would be great!

LOL, is that even legal?

I don't know. The Harlems do it all the time. Wonder if there is a clause against lifting a player to help him make his shot. Lemme check the rules.

darn ! Check this out

"Section M - Illegal Assist in Scoring
1. A player may not assist himself to score by using the basket ring or back-board to lift, hold or raise himself.
2. A player may not assist a teammate to gain height while attempting to score.
PENALTY: Loss of ball. The ball is awarded to the opposing team at the free throw line extended."

The House plan just went down the drain.