Doug and Wolf : Kobe or Amare

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

So KTAR this morning had a piece of the Doug and Wolf show discussing the two rumors of KG and Kobe to the Suns.

They split on the issue, as Wolf said kobe was absolutely the best choice for the suns, and Doug saying KG was the obvious answer.

They then asked the question, "Ignoring budgets/trade formulas/etc, what player would you rather have on the Suns?"

I called in and said (in so many words):

KG, and Wolf needs to stop drinkin the koolaid and think rationally. The suns' weakness is defense in the paint and rebounds, if we stop those leaks we are invincible. KG is a power forward that brings playmaking ability and a dominant force for defense in the paint the suns have never seen. Kobe excels well in places we are already good at. We dont need a 3point shooter, we dont need an increase in pure scoring, we dont need a playmaker, we dont need an improvement in our FG%. Bringing Kobe to the team would only exaggerate what our weaknesses already are. Can you imagine a front court of KG Amare and Diaw? KG and Diaw average 4-5 assists per game as it is, and along with Amare and KGs ability to finish at the rim along with a great jumper, what could possibly go wrong? And if the going gets tough in the paint, just dish it back out to Bell/barbosa/nash for an almost guaranteed shazaam

Then wolf hung up on me.


There's no disputing what we need. And it just makes me hungrier and hungrier for a KG-Marion trade the more I think about it.

 

[boisesuns]

I think you were right on. I'd rather have KG at this point, Especially if it is for marion and extras. We need some more inside presence and he's a great post up scorer and rebounder. Imagine parker trying to come in the lane and Amare and KG are waiting for him. Or even Ginobili! He wouldn't know what direction to flop!

 

[mathbzh]

A starting five of Nash/Bell/Diaw/KG/Amare would be insane (Actually I would have Diaw on the bench). But I don't see it happen.
How could a KG/Marion trade work? Would it also take Barbosa? Diaw maybe?

 

[Maligzar]

Stop rationalizing. Kobe + Amare 2 man game and you could trade everyone else. That's an unstopable combination. That's the ultimate inside outside threat.

You're overhyping KG in an effort to weight your opinion. He's hardly known for being a strong finisher around the basket; and honestly with Amare it's totally unnecessary even if he was.

Kobe+Amare would be the biggest threat this league has seen since Magic and Kareem. Bigger, because Kobe is a better scorer than Magic.

That's why Kobe will never be a Sun as long as Amare is here and the Lakers have anything to say about it. You could give them Marion, Nash, and whatever else. It doesn't matter. You match up Kobe and Amare and it's practically an unguardable combination.

 

[mathbzh]

Stop rationalizing. Kobe + Amare 2 man game and you could trade everyone else. That's an unstopable combination. That's the ultimate inside outside threat.

You're overhyping KG in an effort to weight your opinion. He's hardly known for being a strong finisher around the basket; and honestly with Amare it's totally unnecessary even if he was.

Kobe+Amare would be the biggest threat this league has seen since Magic and Kareem. Bigger, because Kobe is a better scorer than Magic.

That's why Kobe will never be a Sun as long as Amare is here and the Lakers have anything to say about it. You could give them Marion, Nash, and whatever else. It doesn't matter. You match up Kobe and Amare and it's practically an unguardable combination.

If you give Nash... your Kobe /Amare combo will be out in the first round in PO

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

You're overhyping KG in an effort to weight your opinion. He's hardly known for being a strong finisher around the basket;

You cant accuse me of overhyping then turn around and underhype him!

Hardly known for being a strong finisher???? Are we talking about the same KG? With your "unguardable"(not that youre overhyping, I just like quote marks

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) scenario, you still get nowhere in the playoffs. We need defense, I am completely content with our unguardability as it currently is. We are the highest scoring team! Why throw all your resoucres into scoring more when youre already scoring the most?! Why not keep that scoring power as is and improve your defense and rebounds!?!?

I know us suns fans hate to hear it. But defense wins championships. Having a low post presence like KG in our arsenal acknowledges that. Solving the lack of defense with more offense seems a bit shortsided.

 

[boisesuns]

marks

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.

 

[azirish]

There is zero point in discussing the "offense versus defense" issue on this board. The "more offense" camp is always seeking an unstoppable team and figure the stops will come just enough to win.

The "more defense" camp has a bigger challenge because it cannot come at a serious loss of offensive fire power.

My own view tends toward the more defense camp, though I think improved half court offense is essential. (Banks was brought in for his defense but his offense was just awful). At the same timel, I think the reason Rose did not play was because he was just not good enough on defense.

IMHO, the Suns cannot afford to get any smaller no matter how much fire powere they give up in return so Amare for Kobe is not feasible.

 

[Ballamania]

hell yeah! give me KG because of the all -around game, the defense in the post, the toughness and intensity. whoever says he cant finish must have only watched about 5 games of him. i have always thought he would be the perfect fit. he and amare could take turns at the post and elbow. he can create his own shot but is unselfish enough to blend right in to the style of the suns. kobe is a ridiculous offensive threat but if someone thinks that kobe and amare =championship is delusional because at some point you gotta stop someone, bottom line.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I honestly think that Camby would be a better fit for this team, than KG.

I'd rather have Camby at the 1/3 of the price of KG.

 

[azirish]

I honestly think that Camby would be a better fit for this team, than KG.

I'd rather have Camby at the 1/3 of the price of KG.

Price wise, you may be right. But in terms of talent, KG is light years more talented.

 

[OldDirtMcGirt]

So KTAR this morning had a piece of the Doug and Wolf show discussing the two rumors of KG and Kobe to the Suns.

They split on the issue, as Wolf said kobe was absolutely the best choice for the suns, and Doug saying KG was the obvious answer.

They then asked the question, "Ignoring budgets/trade formulas/etc, what player would you rather have on the Suns?"

I called in and said (in so many words):

KG, and Wolf needs to stop drinkin the koolaid and think rationally. The suns' weakness is defense in the paint and rebounds, if we stop those leaks we are invincible. KG is a power forward that brings playmaking ability and a dominant force for defense in the paint the suns have never seen. Kobe excels well in places we are already good at. We dont need a 3point shooter, we dont need an increase in pure scoring, we dont need a playmaker, we dont need an improvement in our FG%. Bringing Kobe to the team would only exaggerate what our weaknesses already are. Can you imagine a front court of KG Amare and Diaw? KG and Diaw average 4-5 assists per game as it is, and along with Amare and KGs ability to finish at the rim along with a great jumper, what could possibly go wrong? And if the going gets tough in the paint, just dish it back out to Bell/barbosa/nash for an almost guaranteed shazaam

Then wolf hung up on me.


There's no disputing what we need. And it just makes me hungrier and hungrier for a KG-Marion trade the more I think about it.

If we trade Marion, than we still have a big hole for another perimeter defender.

 

[BigDavis75]

I think KG is the better fit but Kobe is no slouch on the defensive end.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Price wise, you may be right. But in terms of talent, KG is light years more talented.

No one is debating that.

I'm thinking about in terms of what the Suns need. Camby's strengths are the Suns' weaknesses. There isn't a more perfect fit for this team in the league IMO.

 

[Chaplin]

If we trade Marion, than we still have a big hole for another perimeter defender.

Ha! I think that's the least of our small list of worries in a trade of Marion for KG. Perimeter defender? Hell, I'd let Boris, James Jones, Raja and Steve Nash patrol the perimeter all they want. With Amare and KG in the middle, nobody is going to drive the lane.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Ha! I think that's the least of our small list of worries in a trade of Marion for KG. Perimeter defender? Hell, I'd let Boris, James Jones, Raja and Steve Nash patrol the perimeter all they want. With Amare and KG in the middle, nobody is going to drive the lane.

That's a crazy idea...... it may even work.

/Tim Duncan & David Robinson

 

[Chaplin]

No one is debating that.

I'm thinking about in terms of what the Suns need. Camby's strengths are the Suns' weaknesses. There isn't a more perfect fit for this team in the league IMO.

If you completely throw out the money issue, I totally disagree. KG is the ultimate player for us. He's long, he can board, he's clutch, he plays good defense and he can score when nobody else can. He's also a superior athlete.

Camby can block shots and rebound, but is consistently injured.

Out of those two players, which is the better fit?

 

[OldDirtMcGirt]

If you completely throw out the money issue, I totally disagree. KG is the ultimate player for us. He's long, he can board, he's clutch, he plays good defense and he can score when nobody else can. He's also a superior athlete.

Camby can block shots and rebound, but is consistently injured.

Out of those two players, which is the better fit?

Don´t forget that KG is a great passer. He´s so versatile, he´s really the perfect fit for every system.

 

[nowagimp]

Stop rationalizing. Kobe + Amare 2 man game and you could trade everyone else. That's an unstopable combination. That's the ultimate inside outside threat.

You're overhyping KG in an effort to weight your opinion. He's hardly known for being a strong finisher around the basket; and honestly with Amare it's totally unnecessary even if he was.

Kobe+Amare would be the biggest threat this league has seen since Magic and Kareem. Bigger, because Kobe is a better scorer than Magic.

That's why Kobe will never be a Sun as long as Amare is here and the Lakers have anything to say about it. You could give them Marion, Nash, and whatever else. It doesn't matter. You match up Kobe and Amare and it's practically an unguardable combination.

I agree that the suns would have an incredible team with Kobe, but not to give up Nash. Kobe would run the offense with Nash out, and sometimes with Nash in, set up on the 3 pt line as a 3 pt shooter(imagine the spacing with Nash at the 3 pt line). Kobe is younger than KG, and is a better go to guy, no doubt. The matchups against the spurs would be sick, with bowen on Kobe, who would guard Nash? No more would the other teams best defender be on Nash, sweet! Kobe also would give the suns the ultimate weapon against the Jazz, potent offense from the '2', the jazz are weak defensively there. The spacing the suns could create for Kobe would be much better than he got in LA. Kobe's mid range game would counter the spurs 3 point defensive strategy, punish it. The suns dont have much in a mid range game from the 1,2,3 spot except Nash. Kobe might shoot 55% in the suns system and be able to play harder on defense. When the oppositon succeeded in slowing the game down, Kobe and Amare set up high/low with Nash on the wing, OMG, that'd be sick. I also think Kobe could score more on the move with Nash feeds than smushs. Alot of teams shade Nash with 3 guys, doing that with kobe roaming around would be suicide. Kobe also has something to prove, and only winning will do that. I'll take KG without giving up amare, that'd be great, but I'd rather have kobe. I could put aside my natural dislike for him as an opponent if he was a sun. But .... its not going to happen.

 

[cly2tw]

Yea, I don't think Lakers would give us Kobe even for Marion, Nash and Bell.

On the other hand, KG is exactly what we need to stop the Spurs and the Mavs. His paint defense alone would make us the champ and his offense is good enough to warrant double teaming from time to time. In particular, Parker can't guard anybody but Nash then. It'd be insane and unfair to to league I may say.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

If you completely throw out the money issue, I totally disagree. KG is the ultimate player for us. He's long, he can board, he's clutch, he plays good defense and he can score when nobody else can. He's also a superior athlete.

Camby can block shots and rebound, but is consistently injured.

Out of those two players, which is the better fit?

I agree'd with you, until you said that KG is clutch. He really isn't clutch. He doesn't take over in the 4th. He does have that "fire" in him to win, but that doesn't mean that he delivers when it counts.

KG would come in and be the 3rd option behind Amare and Nash, just like Marion. I don't consider him anymore clutch than Nash/Amare.

He is obviously a more talented player, and a superior athlete to Camby. You don't have to field a team of all stars to win a championship. You need quality role players, and Camby fits that role to a T. Just like Marion does.

Without factoring injuries, (which he was quite healthy this year) Camby is the better fit IMO.

 

[azirish]

I agree'd with you, until you said that KG is clutch. He really isn't clutch. He doesn't take over in the 4th. He does have that "fire" in him to win, but that doesn't mean that he delivers when it counts.

KG would come in and be the 3rd option behind Amare and Nash, just like Marion. I don't consider him anymore clutch than Nash/Amare.

He is obviously a more talented player, and a superior athlete to Camby. You don't have to field a team of all stars to win a championship. You need quality role players, and Camby fits that role to a T. Just like Marion does.

Without factoring injuries, (which he was quite healthy this year) Camby is the better fit IMO.

Since neither are coming to the Suns, we'll never know.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Since neither are coming to the Suns, we'll never know.

Pretty weird when KG has a better chance of being a Sun, than Camby.

 

[D-Dogg]

I agree'd with you, until you said that KG is clutch. He really isn't clutch. He doesn't take over in the 4th. He does have that "fire" in him to win, but that doesn't mean that he delivers when it counts.

I was going to say the exact same thing. It is his one flaw...he defers in crunchtime. It's weird. Not that it would matter on the Suns, since Nash is clutch (or the Lakers, with Kobe).

But on his own, as the go to guy, he isn't as comfortable as you'd expect a guy as talented as he is to be.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

a flawed premise and a non issue for the suns.