Draft Combine Measurements for those interested

[JerkFace]

And the dinosaur arms award for this draft goes to Cody Zeller. This really is one of the worst I've ever seen and makes me wonder if he will drop pretty hard even in this terrible draft.

Height without shoes: 6 '10.75"
height with shoes: 7 '0.25"
standing reach: 8 '10"

I mean that's almost weird. I know there's more to a 4-5 then his standing reach, but I can't think of one starting caliber 4-5 in the league who had a standing reach under 9'0". If I'm a scout I don't even care about height. It's standing reach on frontcourt players and then wingspan and wingspan/standing reach on perimeter players. I'd also like to see a big set of mitts as a bonus.

Joe

I have zero desire to even consider drafting Zeller but as bad as his standing reach is the fact that he had the #1 standing verticle out of everyone is pretty impressive.

 

[slinslin]

And the dinosaur arms award for this draft goes to Cody Zeller. This really is one of the worst I've ever seen and makes me wonder if he will drop pretty hard even in this terrible draft.

Height without shoes: 6 '10.75"
height with shoes: 7 '0.25"
standing reach: 8 '10"

I mean that's almost weird. I know there's more to a 4-5 then his standing reach, but I can't think of one starting caliber 4-5 in the league who had a standing reach under 9'0". If I'm a scout I don't even care about height. It's standing reach on frontcourt players and then wingspan and wingspan/standing reach on perimeter players. I'd also like to see a big set of mitts as a bonus.

Joe

Olynyk is even more extreme. He is a legit 7' in shoes but his wingspawn is under 6'10.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I have zero desire to even consider drafting Zeller but as bad as his standing reach is the fact that he had the #1 standing verticle out of everyone is pretty impressive.

His standing vertical jump is the best for all big men (6'9+) in a decade. Plus, he outran Oladipo in a sprint. He has a lot to offer and the Indiana system did not fully reveal this guy's talents but I just don't think he'll be a real difference maker at the next level. He'll play and he's far better than the other Zellers but I think average starter is his ceiling.

Steve

 

[JCSunsfan]

Teams now talking about moving up to get Oladipo. Watch his interview. The guy shows maturity and intensity. He might be gone before we pick if things do not go right.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Teams now talking about moving up to get Oladipo. Watch his interview. The guy shows maturity and intensity. He might be gone before we pick if things do not go right.

I like Oladipo. When I thought we were drafting around 10th, he was the guy I was hoping would fall to us. But if we end up with the 2nd or 3rd pick and someone offers us fair market to move up to get him, we should jump on it enthusiastically. Oladipo will be a solid pro (above average starter in a few years) but he won't make us appreciably better and I just don't think he has the ceiling some of you apparently do. He's the kind of player you love to have as your 3rd or 4th best player but he's not the next James Harden or anything near that level, IMO.

Steve

 

[JCSunsfan]

I like Oladipo. When I thought we were drafting around 10th, he was the guy I was hoping would fall to us. But if we end up with the 2nd or 3rd pick and someone offers us fair market to move up to get him, we should jump on it enthusiastically. Oladipo will be a solid pro (above average starter in a few years) but he won't make us appreciably better and I just don't think he has the ceiling some of you apparently do. He's the kind of player you love to have as your 3rd or 4th best player but he's not the next James Harden or anything near that level, IMO.

Steve

Just curious what your justification is in saying that? To me, his impact will be Shawn Marion-like but from the 2 position instead of the 3. He will be an across the board stat stuffer and will cover the other team's best player at the 1-3 positions.

The difference between him and Marion is that he is smarter and more of a team leader.

He could be the best player in this draft when it is done.

 

[slinslin]

It's a big difference being that kind of player at the 3/4 like Shawn Marion has been in his career and being that type of player at the 2. The smaller you get in the positions the more skill is required to standout. A player like Faried at a guard position is a practice body in the NBA.

Besides Shawn Marion for his career has only been really effective on up-tempo teams.

I think you can say this: Among your starting point guard, shooting guard and small forward to be successful in the NBA you better have an outstanding shooter and at least another very good scorer/shooter. Oladipo will never be a great perimeter shooter I think.
This is exactly why I want McLemore - great athlete and shooter. He has proven in college that he can hit volume 3pt shots at a good efficieny. That is probably the best skill you can have at the position.

After the combine I'd be happy with Oladipo at #3 or maybe even at #2 over Noel since he scares me. But I am not ready to put Oladipo over McLemore.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Slin, I think you are probably right about McLemore over Oladipo. Oladiopo shot slightly better from the 3, but only took half the shots that McLemore did. And Ben was a freshman. Oladipo will be a very good outside shooter, but McLemore has a chance to be elite.

If they are both are available when we pick, I would probably take McLemore, but I would be worried. Something about him says "mental weakness" to me. So, if he is gone when we pick, I take Oladipo with more confidence. I know, sounds strange.

 

[slinslin]

Slin, I think you are probably right about McLemore over Oladipo. Oladiopo shot slightly better from the 3, but only took half the shots that McLemore did. And Ben was a freshman. Oladipo will be a very good outside shooter, but McLemore has a chance to be elite.

It is closer to a third than half (1.9 3pta vs 4.7) and for the 2nd half of the season Oladipo shot only 33% from the college 3.

The difference in shooting is also obvious in FT% 75% vs 87%.

 

[JCSunsfan]

It is closer to a third than half (1.9 3pta vs 4.7) and for the 2nd half of the season Oladipo shot only 33% from the college 3.

The difference in shooting is also obvious in FT% 75% vs 87%.

I'm just not a fan of taking selected selected portions of a season to make my point. I could just as easily say that VO shot well over 50% from the 3 for the first half of the season. Neither stat paints a full picture.

Anyway. It looks like we agree pretty much at this point.

 

[Superbone]

I have had enough of the Zeller brothers to even consider the measurements on Cody. I guess Lance Blanks did that to me, saying something like that Luke Zeller is the greatest shooter in the world. If the Suns draft a big man I want him to be tough enough to play inside.

I'd love to see Luke Zeller and Dan Langhi in a shooting contest. But only in practice, not a real game.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I'm just not a fan of taking selected selected portions of a season to make my point. I could just as easily say that VO shot well over 50% from the 3 for the first half of the season. Neither stat paints a full picture.

Anyway. It looks like we agree pretty much at this point.

I'd agree except there are times when it is very telling and I think this might be one of those times. Victor entered the season with a reputation as a defense only player. After stepping up big early in the season against a couple of top opponents he started drawing more attention from the defense, something that McLemore faced all season. Your comparison to Marion is probably in the ballpark but I think it's just a bit higher than Ben's ceiling. I certainly won't be devastated if we draft Victor, I'm just hoping for a little more than a number 3 guy. With this draft group though, I might be shooting too high.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

I'd love to see Luke Zeller and Dan Langhi in a shooting contest. But only in practice, not a real game.

Of course.

Somehow Sean Marks seems like he should somehow fit in with these two players, sort of a big man without a home. However, I guess Sean Marks would be a star in comparison.

 

[SirStefan32]

I don't like the Marion comparison, although I can see why it makes sense on surface.

Major knock on Marion was that he was a knucklehead. Certainly not on the level of Michael Beasley, but his basketball IQ (and work ethic, for that matter) has always been questionable.

Oladipo is an extremely smart player, and from what I've read, he is an extremely hard worker. He seems to be a gym rat, and we can see evidence of him improving- last season, he was an outstanding defender, and nothing more. He improved his shooting a lot this year, and while he is still not a great shooter, I am absolutely positive he will continue to improve.

I think Steven hit the nail on the head- we are all hoping to get a game-changer in this draft, which is probably not going to happen. I'll be happy to grab a solid, defensive-minded player who is not completely useless on offense. That means we will still need to draft/sign/ trade for that number one (and number two) option(s), but every good team needs guys like Oladipo, Porter, etc as well.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I don't like the Marion comparison, although I can see why it makes sense on surface.

Major knock on Marion was that he was a knucklehead. Certainly not on the level of Michael Beasley, but his basketball IQ (and work ethic, for that matter) has always been questionable.

Oladipo is an extremely smart player, and from what I've read, he is an extremely hard worker. He seems to be a gym rat, and we can see evidence of him improving- last season, he was an outstanding defender, and nothing more. He improved his shooting a lot this year, and while he is still not a great shooter, I am absolutely positive he will continue to improve.

I think Steven hit the nail on the head- we are all hoping to get a game-changer in this draft, which is probably not going to happen. I'll be happy to grab a solid, defensive-minded player who is not completely useless on offense. That means we will still need to draft/sign/ trade for that number one (and number two) option(s), but every good team needs guys like Oladipo, Porter, etc as well.

You just have to take the best the draft offers you. That's all you can do.

 

[slinslin]

I am most worried about Oladipo how his offensive game translate to the NBA.

in college clearly :
- he was more of a role player in the offense on a very fast paced team
- he was very selective shooting only open set shots
- he was living off of garbage points in the paint, on fastbreaks

I can't imagine him being able to play that style succesfully in the NBA. In college he can get away with playing close to the rim a lot and without being an expert on Indiana I assume he played a decent amount of minutes at forward in college even at his size.

How effective is Oladipo going to be when he is forced on the perimeter offensively.

 

[Errntknght]

Oladipo looks to be one of the top athletes in the draft if not the very top and he's reputed to have a high bball IQ - I think he'll find many ways to score. For one thing SG's are not noted for blocking out their men on rebounds and in his case they may worry much more about getting back ahead of him than blocking him out.

I noticed in his DX draft video that he was inclined to operate on the baseline and already quite effective. He doesn't avoid contact and finishes fairly well in traffic. Baseline play is a neglected art in the NBA and I'm not expecting him to be another Ced Ceballos but with his quickness and hops he could be a nightmare of a different sort. Especially if he developes a corner three that one has to respect. There's the nice little curl up to the FT line, like Grant Hill used so effectively, too. Baseline players are almost by definition secondary scorers because you need someone out front who attracts lots of attention but 16-17 efficient ppg is nothing to be sneezed at.

See, slin, that is one way he could be effective in the NBA without being forced to the perimeter offensively, and its not foreign to his game. In fact it plays right to his continuing to live off garbage points in the paint.

Of course, what I'm really interested in is his defensive prowress. I was suitably impressed with what the video showed but I know he'll be facing bigger, stronger and faster players in the NBA so I try to keep from getting too excited. I can't really say that is working because I think I'd pick him if he was available, period. Over anyone else in this draft.

 

[slinslin]

See, slin, that is one way he could be effective in the NBA without being forced to the perimeter offensively, and its not foreign to his game. In fact it plays right to his continuing to live off garbage points in the paint.

See I don't think that is a good way at all for a SG to operate in the NBA unless you have tremendous perimeter shooters around him it messes up spacing an I also don't think a shooting guard in the NBA can crash the board offensively so much without being burned in transition.

 

[Joe Mama]

I think what we really have to wonder is whether we will continue our proud tradition of drafting siblings of other NBA players. If that's the case we might as well end this thread and pencil in Zeller, Plumlee, and Curry with the three draft picks.

Anybody heard anything about what the Suns plan to do with Wesley Johnson?

Joe

 

[SirStefan32]

I think what we really have to wonder is whether we will continue our proud tradition of drafting siblings of other NBA players. If that's the case we might as well end this thread and pencil in Zeller, Plumlee, and Curry with the three draft picks.

Anybody heard anything about what the Suns plan to do with Wesley Johnson?

Joe

If Curry is available at #57, I'd take him.

 

[Superbone]

I think what we really have to wonder is whether we will continue our proud tradition of drafting siblings of other NBA players. If that's the case we might as well end this thread and pencil in Zeller, Plumlee, and Curry with the three draft picks.

Anybody heard anything about what the Suns plan to do with Wesley Johnson?

Joe

There's a new sheriff in town. The tradition ends.

 

[slinslin]

And the dinosaur arms award for this draft goes to Cody Zeller. This really is one of the worst I've ever seen and makes me wonder if he will drop pretty hard even in this terrible draft.

Height without shoes: 6 '10.75"
height with shoes: 7 '0.25"
standing reach: 8 '10"

I mean that's almost weird. I know there's more to a 4-5 then his standing reach, but I can't think of one starting caliber 4-5 in the league who had a standing reach under 9'0". If I'm a scout I don't even care about height. It's standing reach on frontcourt players and then wingspan and wingspan/standing reach on perimeter players. I'd also like to see a big set of mitts as a bonus.

Joe

Cody Zeller has a smaller standing reach than Markieff Morris, do you need to know more about Zeller?

Zeller 8'10"
Morris 8'10 1/2"
Amare 9' 1/2"

The funny thing is that Olynyk is the same height as Zeller , has an even smaller wingspawn 6'9 3/4 vs 6'10 3/4 but somehow has a 9' standing reach.

Conclusion Zeller is a Giraffe.

 

[Errntknght]

See I don't think that is a good way at all for a SG to operate in the NBA unless you have tremendous perimeter shooters around him it messes up spacing an I also don't think a shooting guard in the NBA can crash the board offensively so much without being burned in transition.

That's where his basketball smarts come into play. He can't go crashing the boards willy-nilly. He has to be aware of how dangerous his man is on the break and whether one of the forwards has rotated out high to defend against the break - in addition to deciding quickly what his chances of gathering in the rebound are. But don't forget his man is going to be in his vicinity so he's not spotting him 25 feet in the sprint down floor.
One of the unappreciated beauties of baseline play is that while you've drawn your defender close to the basket he's got his back turned to most of the action so its hard for him to help his teammates while you have a very good view - naturally when he peeks is when you pounce. And you use movement to make sure his attention is on you when something is developing, like a shot going up.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Cody Zeller has a smaller standing reach than Markieff Morris, do you need to know more about Zeller?

Zeller 8'10"
Morris 8'10 1/2"
Amare 9' 1/2"

The funny thing is that Olynyk is the same height as Zeller , has an even smaller wingspawn 6'9 3/4 vs 6'10 3/4 but somehow has a 9' standing reach.

Conclusion Zeller is a Giraffe.

Zeller did very well at the combine. He is a much better athlete than Markieff Morris. His leaping ability, speed, and agility are nearly the best in the history of the draft (yes the history of the draft) for a player of his size. Yes, his wingspan is not that great. But its the only negative thing to come out of the draft regarding him.

I don't want the Suns to draft him, but I think he has a good career ahead of him as a pf.

 

[Errntknght]

Joe Mama,

Anybody heard anything about what the Suns plan to do with Wesley Johnson?

I haven't heard anything and I rather hope it stays that way - I don't care for his game. He's not much of a defender and doesn't work at it. He's also very inefficient on offense in spite of his pretty shot. I'd rather have him than Beasley but not by a large margin.