Draft grades

[sunsfan88]

Basically. However it has to happen....position ourselves to be higher in the draft to get a "chance" of getting a franchise player because drafting in the middle of the draft will guarantee us mediocrity indefinitely. Many people here believe we can't attract the likes of a LJ or pull off a blockbuster trade. If that is true...what's left? The draft right?

I don't completely disagree with you. The Cavs, 76ers, Bucks, Lakers, Celtics and Jazz can all be pleased in knowing that even if they don't attract LeBron or a Durant to their team, they still likely have a possible franchise caliber player.

What do the Suns have right now? The pleasure of knowing that their "young potential star player" Bledsoe is gonna be a RFA? Knowing that his knees and meniscus are a never ending story? Getting prepared for the best player Dragic (who is already 29 years old btw) to opt out next summer? All while knowing that it's not like we are even contending or close to it now?

Yea the Suns got close to the playoffs last season. But what exactly did that accomplish? Absolutely nothing. You don't see superstars saying "Oh hey the Suns almost made playoffs last season and have a lot of cap space and have a bunch of absolutely pathetic draft picks!! Lets go play for them!!".

 

[Covert Rain]

Saved me the typing & research. I knew that any picks in the latter half of the 1st rd were like throwing dice.

I need to go back and look at how we were a bad team, and were still unable to get into the top 5 with the exception of the one pick last year.

I updated the stats to be a little more clear and forgot to add 11-20. Added now.

I don't completely disagree with you. The Cavs, 76ers, Bucks, Lakers, Celtics and Jazz can all be pleased in knowing that even if they don't attract LeBron or a Durant to their team, they still likely have a possible franchise caliber player.

What do Suns fans have right now? The pleasure of knowing that Bledsoe is gonna be a RFA? Getting prepared for Dragic to opt out next summer? All while knowing that it's not like we are even contending or close to it now?

Yea the Suns got close to the playoffs last season. But what exactly did that accomplish? Absolutely nothing. You don't see superstars saying "Oh hey the Suns almost made playoffs last season and have a lot of cap space and have a bunch of absolutely pathetic draft picks!! Lets go play for them!!".

Preach on preacher!

 

[AzStevenCal]

I don't completely disagree with you. The Cavs, 76ers, Bucks, Lakers, Celtics and Jazz can all be pleased in knowing that even if they don't attract LeBron or a Durant to their team, they still likely have a possible franchise caliber player.

What do the Suns have right now? The pleasure of knowing that their "young potential star player" Bledsoe is gonna be a RFA? Knowing that his knees and meniscus are a never ending story? Getting prepared for the best player Dragic (who is already 29 years old btw) to opt out next summer? All while knowing that it's not like we are even contending or close to it now?

Yea the Suns got close to the playoffs last season. But what exactly did that accomplish? Absolutely nothing. You don't see superstars saying "Oh hey the Suns almost made playoffs last season and have a lot of cap space and have a bunch of absolutely pathetic draft picks!! Lets go play for them!!".

You're right, in this regard we've accomplished nothing. Well, nothing other than the fact that just a year ago we looked to have probably the worst future of any team in the league. And now we have hope for the future. I'll take it no matter how you want to label it.

I don't think there is a plan to take a team with zero talent and turn it into a contender overnight. There's a process. We are still very early in that process.

Steve

 

[Covert Rain]

You're right, in this regard we've accomplished nothing. Well, nothing other than the fact that just a year ago we looked to have probably the worst future of any team in the league. And now we have hope for the future. I'll take it no matter how you want to label it.

I don't think there is a plan to take a team with zero talent and turn it into a contender overnight. There's a process. We are still very early in that process.

Steve

I guess that depends on what you call a future? A future in mediocrity? A future of continuing the Suns legacy of one of the most winning franchise in all of sports without a title?

Steve, do you really consider that a future? Maybe some do and that's fair but anything short of a title is a failure to me.

By the way statistically since the Suns drafted 14, 18 and 27 it breaks down statistically like this:

• 14th pick (25% chance of star, 20% solid player, 25% role player, 10% bench warmer, 20% bust)
• 18th Pick (5% chance of star, 15% chance of a solid player, 25% Role Player, 40% chance of a bench warmer, 15% chance of a bust).
• 27th Pick (5% chance of star, 5% solid player, 25% role player, 60% bench warmer, 5% bust)

This is why the Suns need to draft higher to have a shot statistically of landing a franchise player.

 

[Superbone]

This guy is Ced Ceballos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbv92HJOmhM

I seriously can't wait to watch this guy this summer and on the Suns next season.

 

[Superbone]

Maybe because Marshall is a complete annoying d-bag. I don't think it only had to do with his lack of game, I think he didn't fit in the locker room.

LOL. Yeah, that.

 

[Superbone]

The Suns are going to have to make their own magic in free agency, rather than expect anyone to trade them a dollar bill for a sockful of small change.

LOL. Love the analogy.

 

[Superbone]

You're right, in this regard we've accomplished nothing. Well, nothing other than the fact that just a year ago we looked to have probably the worst future of any team in the league. And now we have hope for the future. I'll take it no matter how you want to label it.

I don't think there is a plan to take a team with zero talent and turn it into a contender overnight. There's a process. We are still very early in that process.

Steve

I loved last season. I haven't enjoyed a season that much in a long time. Well, 2010 anyway. But it was seriously a blast. I hope this upcoming season is anywhere close to last years, playoffs or not.

 

[Mainstreet]

IMO, the grades given out my Spears is a joke. Kyle Anderson gets an "A." Come on. There are a number of unfair grades.

I'll give the Suns a "B." The selection of PG Tyler Ennis (a position of need) solidified my grade.

 

[devilalum]

LOL. Love the analogy.

Metaphor?

 

[BC867]

LOL. Love the analogy.

Analogy. That's what makes you sneeze, isn't it?

 

[FutureSuperstar]

I don't completely disagree with you. The Cavs, 76ers, Bucks, Lakers, Celtics and Jazz can all be pleased in knowing that even if they don't attract LeBron or a Durant to their team, they still likely have a possible franchise caliber player.

What do the Suns have right now? The pleasure of knowing that their "young potential star player" Bledsoe is gonna be a RFA? Knowing that his knees and meniscus are a never ending story? Getting prepared for the best player Dragic (who is already 29 years old btw) to opt out next summer? All while knowing that it's not like we are even contending or close to it now?

Yea the Suns got close to the playoffs last season. But what exactly did that accomplish? Absolutely nothing. You don't see superstars saying "Oh hey the Suns almost made playoffs last season and have a lot of cap space and have a bunch of absolutely pathetic draft picks!! Lets go play for them!!".

"Hello !!!!! ... You play to win the game! " - As Herm Edwards said. It's really that simple. But I guess I'll go on ... They won 48 games, a huge improvement over last season. That is accomplishing something. And I think a lot of players are looking at the Suns as an attractive destination - Of course you're not "seeing superstars" saying anything - I don't even know what that means; I haven't heard a quote from ANY player on where he wants to play, maybe except Kevin Love (according to "sources") .... So I guess that's 1 maybe ...

Either way, none of that is relevant. Your whole post seems to be complaining that the Suns actually played well ... This just in: You don't go from a 25 win team to a contender in 1 season ... Of course there will be at least 1 year in between of "mediocrity" , if you would call a 48 win team just that, or at least 1 year of getting close to the playoffs as you put it (which I guess means nothing) ...

How do you know the Suns won't make a leap next season and win 55+ games? You don't - You are assuming they are on a treadmill of mediocrity when they just started running ... The Suns have more promising young guys than any team in the whole league - They are seriously the last team in the NBA that you would worry about the direction they're going in ... Seriously, I think if someone ranked the "futures" of all 30 teams, they would be 1st - Considering the Heat / Thunder / Spurs reign may be ending soon and some of the other teams w/ young future stars are poorly managed / structured

 

[elindholm]

Seriously, I think if someone ranked the "futures" of all 30 teams, they would be 1st - Considering the Heat / Thunder / Spurs reign may be ending soon

Not a chance. The cores of the Thunder and Rockets are both plenty young. Cleveland now has three #1 overall picks on their roster. Philadelphia has two potential franchise centers in waiting, plus another high lottery pick next summer. The Pelicans have the most-likely next dominant player on their roster. Several other teams have young talents in waiting who are a clear notch ahead of Dragic, Bledsoe, or anyone else in Phoenix. The Suns would probably be above average on a "futures" list, but not far above -- maybe 10th-12th.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Not a chance. The cores of the Thunder and Rockets are both plenty young. Cleveland now has three #1 overall picks on their roster. Philadelphia has two potential franchise centers in waiting, plus another high lottery pick next summer. The Hornets have the most-likely next dominant player on their roster. Several other teams have young talents in waiting who are a clear notch ahead of Dragic, Bledsoe, or anyone else in Phoenix. The Suns would probably be above average on a "futures" list, but not far above -- maybe 10th-12th.

Yeah...how we're somehow ahead of the Thunder, Rockets, GS, Portland and the Clippers as far as future is concerned is beyond me...and that's just talking about the Western Conference. ALL those teams have younger building blocks then us and already better then us. Then, you automatically throw whatever Team LeBron is on for the next 3 years and that's five teams who immediately have a better future then us.

 

[Folster]

Not a chance. The cores of the Thunder and Rockets are both plenty young. Cleveland now has three #1 overall picks on their roster. Philadelphia has two potential franchise centers in waiting, plus another high lottery pick next summer. The Hornets have the most-likely next dominant player on their roster. Several other teams have young talents in waiting who are a clear notch ahead of Dragic, Bledsoe, or anyone else in Phoenix. The Suns would probably be above average on a "futures" list, but not far above -- maybe 10th-12th.

I agree with you on the future of the Suns, but you meant Pelicans and Davis right?

 

[Cheesebeef]

I agree with you on the future of the Suns, but you meant Pelicans and Davis right?

gotta assume yes.

 

[AzStevenCal]

"Hello !!!!! ... You play to win the game! " - As Herm Edwards said. It's really that simple. But I guess I'll go on ... They won 48 games, a huge improvement over last season. That is accomplishing something. And I think a lot of players are looking at the Suns as an attractive destination - Of course you're not "seeing superstars" saying anything - I don't even know what that means; I haven't heard a quote from ANY player on where he wants to play, maybe except Kevin Love (according to "sources") .... So I guess that's 1 maybe ...

Either way, none of that is relevant. Your whole post seems to be complaining that the Suns actually played well ... This just in: You don't go from a 25 win team to a contender in 1 season ... Of course there will be at least 1 year in between of "mediocrity" , if you would call a 48 win team just that, or at least 1 year of getting close to the playoffs as you put it (which I guess means nothing) ...

How do you know the Suns won't make a leap next season and win 55+ games? You don't - You are assuming they are on a treadmill of mediocrity when they just started running ... The Suns have more promising young guys than any team in the whole league - They are seriously the last team in the NBA that you would worry about the direction they're going in ... Seriously, I think if someone ranked the "futures" of all 30 teams, they would be 1st - Considering the Heat / Thunder / Spurs reign may be ending soon and some of the other teams w/ young future stars are poorly managed / structured

Our future is much brighter than it was a year ago but that's because we were at the bottom. Now, I think we're somewhere in the middle and I'm thrilled with the level of improvement we've seen in such a short time. We still have a ways to go though before we can even hope to be considered with the "haves" of the league.

Steve

 

[elindholm]

I agree with you on the future of the Suns, but you meant Pelicans and Davis right?

Yes, right, sorry. I'll change it.

 

[KloD]

Jesus... can we at least give McD and coach a few years to see what they can build? In one year they managed to not only increase the wins by 23, but they also changed the attitudes of the players. They brought in Plumlee, Green, and Bledsoe who IMO all 3 outplayed anyones expectations. They missed the playoffs by like a game and had a record of 3 less wins that G.S. who's supposedly far better than the Suns while missing their best or 2nd best (depending on who you ask) player for 1/2 the season. They aren't locked into bad contracts, they have 2 or 3 more 1st round picks next year, and they have some young talent. Will any of this years or last years picks end up being a "Star"? Probably not, but they are rare and there are some that I wouldn't want playing for the Suns anyway (Mello). Some here sound like spoiled little brats expecting everything now now now. All the doom and gloom, how do you get out of bed in the freakin' morning?!? It's entertainment, if you're not being entertained than change the damn channel. Find a new team. A different form of entertainment. My God, it's supposed to be fun, enjoyable.

All this hype about G.S. yet had Bledsoe been healthy all year the Suns likely would have out played them. They have 4 players taking up 80% of their cap in two years and 3 of them I wouldn't want, especially at those salaries. Sigh... man, I've never seen so much blubbering when a team doubles the expectations and their foreseeable future is looking pretty damn bright. Boo freakin' Hoo. Some of you take all the fun out of this. The end is nigh.

 

[Covert Rain]

Not a chance. The cores of the Thunder and Rockets are both plenty young. Cleveland now has three #1 overall picks on their roster. Philadelphia has two potential franchise centers in waiting, plus another high lottery pick next summer. The Pelicans have the most-likely next dominant player on their roster. Several other teams have young talents in waiting who are a clear notch ahead of Dragic, Bledsoe, or anyone else in Phoenix. The Suns would probably be above average on a "futures" list, but not far above -- maybe 10th-12th.

+2

 

[Cheesebeef]

Jesus... can we at least give McD and coach a few years to see what they can build? In one year they managed to not only increase the wins by 23, but they also changed the attitudes of the players. They brought in Plumlee, Green, and Bledsoe who IMO all 3 outplayed anyones expectations. They missed the playoffs by like a game and had a record of 3 less wins that G.S. who's supposedly far better than the Suns while missing their best or 2nd best (depending on who you ask) player for 1/2 the season. They aren't locked into bad contracts, they have 2 or 3 more 1st round picks next year, and they have some young talent. Will any of this years or last years picks end up being a "Star"? Probably not, but they are rare and there are some that I wouldn't want playing for the Suns anyway (Mello). Some here sound like spoiled little brats expecting everything now now now. All the doom and gloom, how do you get out of bed in the freakin' morning?!? It's entertainment, if you're not being entertained than change the damn channel. Find a new team. A different form of entertainment. My God, it's supposed to be fun, enjoyable.

All this hype about G.S. yet had Bledsoe been healthy all year the Suns likely would have out played them. They have 4 players taking up 80% of their cap in two years and 3 of them I wouldn't want, especially at those salaries.

you note that Bledsoe missed 30 games last season, but a) Bledsoe has missed a lot of time in three straight seasons b) the rest of our team was pretty much the picture of perfect health and c) the Warriors were better then us while dealing with a rash of injuries all season with Bogut and Lee missing 15 games a piece and Iggy missing 20. They're better, younger and more talented then us, even counting injuries to both teams. That's not hype. That's reality for now.

 

[KloD]

you note that Bledsoe missed 30 games last season, but a) Bledsoe has missed a lot of time in three straight seasons b) the rest of our team was pretty much the picture of perfect health and c) the Warriors were better then us while dealing with a rash of injuries all season with Bogut and Lee missing 15 games a piece and Iggy missing 20. They're better, younger and more talented then us, even counting injuries to both teams. That's not hype. That's reality for now.

I agree, they are better. I'm just saying that they get all kinds of hype, but looking at their future, I'm not seeing one as bright as ours. They have a lot of money wrapped up in those 3 players who missed a lot of time. Bogut is an injury waiting to happen or more a healthy player waiting to happen that rarely does. Iggy is on the downslope, and Lee... well, I think we can agree that he is over paid and won't be getting better. I'm wondering how they are going to pay Klay because I can't see anyone wanting Bogut, Lee, or Iggy down the road at what they are paid and with 4 players earning 80% of their cap in 2 years I'm not seeing a bright future there.

Anyway, my point was only that we are in a great position to get better and we just had a nice turn around season when the future looked pretty damn bleak 12 months ago.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I agree, they are better. I'm just saying that they get all kinds of hype, but looking at their future, I'm not seeing one as bright as ours. They have a lot of money wrapped up in those 3 players who missed a lot of time. Bogut is an injury waiting to happen or more a healthy player waiting to happen that rarely does. Iggy is on the downslope, and Lee... well, I think we can agree that he is over paid and won't be getting better. I'm wondering how they are going to pay Klay because I can't see anyone wanting Bogut, Lee, or Iggy down the road at what they are paid and with 4 players earning 80% of their cap in 2 years I'm not seeing a bright future there.

they have Klay locked up the next two years at their discretion and by the time his contract runs out, they'll only have three major salaries on the books, all of them moderately priced (by NBA standards) at 11 million per. Now, take into consideration that cap keeps rising. This year it went from 58 million to 63 million, a 7.7 percent increase, and even assuming average growth rate of 4.5% means that within two years the cap will be at roughly 69 million (and ikely will rise even more with a new TV deal in the works). So, in Thompson's FA year, your looking at a cap of 69 million while pretty much just having 3 guys on big deals, taking up 35 million. In other words, half of the cap. That's not bad, considering one of those guys is your superstar coming in at 11.5 per year in Curry.

I mean, even if they extended him this off-season, that contract still wouldn't kick in until 2015 when the cap will be 65 million with the Warriors showing 50 million bucks on the books before his contract is factored in. Now, throw in the fact that Lee's an expiring and could be moved and the fact that GS has already shown a willingness to go over the cap and spend around 72 million like they did this year and I really don't see an issue with them getting Klay signed.

 

[KloD]

they have Klay locked up the next two years at their discretion and by the time his contract runs out, they'll only have three major salaries on the books, all of them moderately priced (by NBA standards) at 11 million per. Throw in the fact that the cap keeps rising (and ikely will rise even more with a new TV deal in the works) and having 4 guys on 11 million dollar contracts really isn't that big of a deal.

I could be wrong, but in 15/16 the year Klay is due (after next year, not two) for his next contract they have Bogut @ $12m, Lee @ $15.5, Iggy @ $11.7, and Curry @ $11.3. That's around $50.5 just for those 4. If they do give Klay a max they won't have much left for the rest of the roster. Maybe $10? I know I wouldn't want Bogut, Lee, and Iggy as 3 of my 5 in two years with the rest of the roster not much to look at (not including Curry and Klay). Obviously things can change and they may be able to get rid of some of those contracts, but my point is IMO I like our future and I like it better than where I see theirs going.

 

[elindholm]

I agree that Golden State's future is probably not brighter than Phoenix's. They have Curry and the Suns don't, but other than that, it's a pretty mixed bag, once you get past the window of the next couple of years.