Draft Thursday: Cardinals' Thoughts

[Mitch]

1. Who is the DRC of this year's draft class? That is, the "special athlete" who brings extraordinary intangibles to the dynamics of the team. To me, without question, it is Cincinnati's OLB/DE/TE Connor Barwin.

Do yourself a favor and go to youtube and watch Barwin's highights and evaluate them versus Larry English's, Clay Matthews', Brian Cushing's, Aaron Maybin's, Everette Brown's and Brian Orakpo's.

BTW, you will see several of Barwin's highlight plays versus Rutgers...with the havoc Barwin wreaked in that game, one would think John McNulty has been raving about Barwin to Steve Keim, Bill Davis and Whiz.

Then, consider the following. Of all these top prospects (and any of these players would be a nice acquisition for the Cardinals)...

Barwin and Maybin are the tallest at 6035 (Matthews 6031, Orakpo 6030, Cushing 6027, English 6021, Brown 6014).

Barwin runs the fastest 40 at 4.52 at 255 lbs. (Matthews 4.62 at 240 lbs., Orakpo 4.63 at 263, Cushing 4.64 at 243, Brown 4.65 at 256, Maybin 4.78 at 249, English 4.82 at 255).

Barwin has the highest vertical jump at 40.5" ( Orakpo 39.5", Maybin 38", English 36", Matthews 35.5", Cushing 35", Brown 31").

Barwin has the longest broad jump at 10' 8"

225 Bench Press Reps: Orakpo 31, Cushing 30, Brown 26, English 24, Barwin 23, Matthews 23, Maybin 22. Not the best here, but respectable nonetheless.

Here's are highlights of the blurb on Barwin from NFL Draft Scout:

* Cincinnatti's 2008 MVP
* Team Captain
* Recorded 53 tackles (27 solos)
* Led the Big East in sacks with 12 for minus 74 yards (7th in NCAA)
* Led Cincinnat's defense to a 9th ranking nationally
* 2nd in the Big East for tackles for loss with 16 for minus 96 yards
* 1st in Big East with 20 QB pressures
* Led all Big East defensive linemen with 9 pass deflection (40" vert.)
* Recovered 3 fumbles
* 1st in Big East with 3 blocked punts
* Led a defense that only allowed 104.0 rushing yards per game

Now get this:

* Made 50 of his plays vs. the run, holding the opposition to minus 15 yards (-0.30 ypc), the lowest rushing yardage total allowed by a Bowl Division defensive lineman in 2008.
* 13 of his hits came on 3rd down running plays, 6 stops in the red zone and four stops on goal-line plays.
* Barwin allowed only 2 of 32 passes targeted into his area (6.06 %) to be completed for minus 11 yards (only player in college football to hold opponent to minus yardage during the 2008 season).

And to think he was an All Big East TE who was switched to DE for this season. All I can say is: wow.

If I am the Cardinals and he is on the board whenever we are picking #26 or #31...he's the first player I would take. I'd bring him in and tell him this, this year we are going to ask you to do three things:

1. Rush the QB on passing downs
2. Play situational pass catching TE
3. Be a ST ace.

At mid-season we can look at expanding your role on defense.

My worry is that the Patriots, who traded Mike Vrable, will pick Barwin with their #23 pick. I know the Patriots are also very high on Clay Matthews, as Bill Belichick coached Clay Matthews Jr. in Cleveland.

In addition: Whiz absolutely loves players with versatility. You can count on DRC playing WR more next season. And, Barwin would save a roster spot in that he would be the 4th TE.

2. It would surprise me at all if the Cardinals do acquire the #26 pick in a trade for Anquan Boldin that they take Barwin and English...and if Barwin is gone, Matthews and English as 1A and 1B. Or even Barwin and Matthews.

I have a gut feeling that despite all the talk about RB Donald Brown, and I do believe the Cardinals are high on him, that Steve Keim and his crew have both a RB and a WR they love whom they will be abe to take in later rounds.

3. The other OLB34 I am growing more and more enamored with is David Veikune of Hawaii. This kid is a stick of dynamite. At 6-2 257 pounds Veikune bench presses 455 pounds and squats 500. Watching him at the Senior Bowl, I was so impressed with his quickness on the edge and his ability to bullrush the OT when he needs to. He understands leverege extremely well and is a rugged tackler.

I am worried that Seattle is going to take him early in round three...in fact, that's where a couple of recent mocks have him going. And Seattle loves players like this. This is why if we still need an OLB34 when we are picking at #63, I am hoping the Cardinals take Veikune there.

What would be a very tough decision for me would be if both Veikune and Paul Kruger were available at #63. I love Kruger's game...it fits the Whiz criteria to a tee: smart, high character, physical. Plus, he is extremely versatile and another Mike Vrable type 34LB.

4. At #95 I have targeting LB Scott McKillop of Pittsburgh...it will be interesting to see what ILB the Cardinals take in this draft. I also like Dannell Ellerby of Georgia who has very good sideline to sideline range, but his off-field issues are a concern. And I think that if John Lott got his hands on Jasper Brinkley and got him in great shape, this kid could be a superb pro.

5. There should be some good OL candidates available later on in this draft. Two guards I like a lot are Jaime Thomas of Maryland and Trevor Canfield of Cincinnati. Thomas is a load but needs technique. Canfield fits the Whiz mode: smart, strong character and physical.

My guess at the second day RB and WR Steve Keim and company are targeting:

RB Bernard Scott of Abilene Christian, the 2008 Harlon Trophy Winner (Division II Player of the Year). One of the quicker RBs in this class, and is tougher than average.

WR Darius Passmore of Marshall. Not only is he one of the more gifted pass catchers in this draft, he ran the Wildcat at Marshall, and ran and passed out of it very well. Has good height and size 6-1, 190.

If you want a daily mock I will add one, let me know. You might be getting tired of the mocks, so I thought I'd leave it up to you.

 

[Mulli]

Go ahead with your bad self and mock away.

 

[WildBB]

Go ahead with your bad self and mock away.

Make it the final version. Where do you think Anquan winds up and for what?

Who can justify his salary demands?


Those are intriguing stats on Barwin. I still like English and Brown. But his versatility could put him over the hump with the FO evals.

They have stated they like the depth of the DE/OLBing corps more than the RB;s however.

 

[JeffGollin]

Who is the DRC of this year's draft class? That is, the "special athlete" who brings extraordinary intangibles to the dynamics of the team?
Maybe Barwin.

Maybe CB Darius Butler

Maybe WR's Maclin or Crabtree.

Maybe Michael Johnson.

"Maybe Maybin" (nice bumper sticker)

I remain a one-man minority in also saying: Maybe Pegues

Thing of it is - DRC looked All World in post season game tape, and then validated his game speed with a thru-the-roof Combine performance. In terms of both athleticism, aggressiveness breaking on the ball and other aspects of being a good CB, we got to see the whole package on the field.

Barwin, Johnson and Maybin may have tested really well in shorts, but I'm not sure any of them demonstrated on-the-field, in games that they can make the conversion from 4-3 down DE to OLB in a 3-4. Add to this the one-year-plus learning curve it takes to convert a DE to an OLB coupled with the pressure on teams to have their top choices contribute immediately and all three of these guys become riskier picks than DRC was.

Maclin and Crabtree are phenominal athletes who won't have to change positions and who figure to contribute earlier not later. (Note - Harvin probably belongs on this list too, but character issues may derail him).

 

[az jam]

I would love to see the Cards get both Barwin and English in the first round if they trade Boldin. Eventually they would start and change the face of our defense to a real 3 - 4.
I don't think the Cards will wait until day two for an RB. I think either Shaun Greene or Andre Brown (N.C. State) would be their pick in the second round. Its possible one could be there in the third but that is too much of a gamble.

I do like Don Brown but think the Cards would go for an OLB in the first round especially if they only have one pick. I really think they love Beanie Wells and may be the reason a Boldin trade is made while a team such as the Jets is on the clock.

What is your take on Clint Sintim from Virginia as the Cards pick at #31 if English and Barwin are off the board?? Many rate him as a low first round or early second round pick. There are mixed reviews on him but he was very productive.

 

[joeshmo]

I think Barwin is going to have a much greater learning curve then other players. He only played DE for one season, where as the others have played there for their whole college career. Those players already have a leg up concerning how to read offenses and just the instincts that come with playing defense their whole career. So you better be patient with him becuase I dont think he is going to start for you for 2 years minimum. Just look at Woodley who was a DE his whole career, it still took him a year before he broke out. Not to say he couldnt be productive for those two years as a rotational guy and special teamer though. It is also why he should only concentrate his practicing and film work at OLB and not even worry about TE. Its already hard enough for a player to make a jump mentally to the NFL you dont need for him have to much on his plate, I think it would stunt his growth. Let him practice a few red zone stuff at TE as the year goes on, but thats as far as it should go.

If we did get the Ravens #26 I would be very happy with Barwin and English being the picks. You can say hello to your new 2010 starting 3-4 OLB duo when Okeafer and Berrys contracts end. Now thats planning for the future while still helping the team this year with English and Barwin being pure pass rush specilists and special teamers their first year.

 

[bg7brd]

I would be more than happy with English and Barwin in the first. After watching Shonn Green's highlights again I'm convince this guy will be a very good RB in the NFL. He just doesn't go down on first contact and at times looked like a man amongst boys.

 

[Pariah]

So, Mitch, you're saying the Cards should draft Larry English?

 

[bg7brd]

I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Cards selected Brinkley or Ellerbe in the 3rd. Either would be a good backup or replacement for Dansby. Ellerbe did have an off field issue back in 06 but he could be a big sleeper.

 

[joeshmo]

I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Cards selected Brinkley or Ellerbe in the 3rd. Either would be a good backup or replacement for Dansby. Ellerbe did have an off field issue back in 06 but he could be a big sleeper.

Brinkley would not be a good backup or replacement for Dansby. He would be a backup or replacement for Hayes. Brinkley is a thumper who struggles greatly in coverage, which is not what you want for your WILB. Now Ellerbe you are right on the money IMO.

 

[bg7brd]

Brinkley would not be a good backup or replacement for Dansby. He would be a backup or replacement for Hayes. Brinkley is a thumper who struggles greatly in coverage, which is not what you want for your WILB. Now Ellerbe you are right on the money IMO.

Good call Joe. I must have been thinking of Jason Phillips (who isn't much better )

 

[Stout]

A workout warrior who may, MAY eventually grow into the OLB position. Casserly (not the fake so-called experts) said that he'll probably take 2-3 years to convert into a good OLB, IF he eventually does. He's a project, and we need more than a project at OLB. If we're picking one in the 1st, that is. If he's on the board in the 2nd, I'd take him in a flash.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

If we took Barwin and Brown, i would be kind of worried taking 2 players from the Big East in round 1.They don't exactly play the best level of competition in that conference until about mid-november with a round ball. I wouldn't hate the Barwin pick but i want more of a polished product in round 1. It's hard to project how he'll transition to the NFL.

I do like Cincy's head coach. Brian Kelly is going to become a hot commodity in the coaching ranks within a couple years.

 

[CardShark]

My preference for the first round is Moreno, Wells, Barwin and English, in that order. Moreno would have that greatest impact in the beginning, but I think if we brought Barwin along like DRC or Doucet that his upside is huge. He's the freak athlete and he has good hands that allow him to drop into coverage. For some reason I think of Jamir Miller in terms of athleticism.

In the second, I hope the player that we take if he manages to drop or we move up is Jarron Gilbert. I think the first round is really going to determine where we go for the next three rounds. If we manage to get Moreno or Wells I could see us going all defense after that. If not then they'll address RB in one of those rounds. I think RB is pretty much the same in the later rounds. Not one of them comes without concerns and I don't see any being an elite back down the road. I think we are really fortunate with the depth in the defensive pool this year. This draft can put us in the top echelon of the NFL for years.

If Boldin does get traded I would love to get Moreno and Barwin in the first. If no team wants to give up the third along with the first then maybe we could at least move up in the second and/or third rounds.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

I would love to see the Cards get both Barwin and English in the first round if they trade Boldin. Eventually they would start and change the face of our defense to a real 3 - 4.
I don't think the Cards will wait until day two for an RB. I think either Shaun Greene or Andre Brown (N.C. State) would be their pick in the second round. Its possible one could be there in the third but that is too much of a gamble.

I do like Don Brown but think the Cards would go for an OLB in the first round especially if they only have one pick. I really think they love Beanie Wells and may be the reason a Boldin trade is made while a team such as the Jets is on the clock.

What is your take on Clint Sintim from Virginia as the Cards pick at #31 if English and Barwin are off the board?? Many rate him as a low first round or early second round pick. There are mixed reviews on him but he was very productive.

He is also the only one of the top rated OLB/DE's who actually played in a 3-4.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

If we do trade Q I don't see anyway we don't get back a dynamic offensive player in either the form of a 1st round RB or a trade for Tony G.

We need to replace at least some of that production from the loss of Q.

Be wary of lessons of the Phoenix based basketball team. In an effort to become more defensive they stripped away pieces of what made them special offensively. And now they are just above mediocre at both and out of the playoffs.

I am obviously not against the idea of trading Q but I am a firm beleiver in maintaining our offensive identity. And Q's production has to be replaced in the form of a 1st round pick or trade IMO.

 

[Shogun]

Barwin is possibly this year's DRC is regards to athleticism, but he's much rawer than DRC was. Like joe said, he won't be a starter for a while because he'll have to learn the position.

I like Veikune because he smooth and is always around the ball, but he doesn't seem second round worthy. I don't see upside with him and his athleticism is only average. 4th round? Yep, but not in the second.

I agree about your inside linebackers. I'm starting to think that McKillop is not far off from Rey.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

If we do trade Q I don't see anyway we don't get back a dynamic offensive player in either the form of a 1st round RB or a trade for Tony G.

We need to replace at least some of that production from the loss of Q.

Be wary of lessons of the Phoenix based basketball team. In an effort to become more defensive they stripped away pieces of what made them special offensively. And now they are just above mediocre at both and out of the playoffs.

I am obviously not against the idea of trading Q but I am a firm beleiver in maintaining our offensive identity. And Q's production has to be replaced in the form of a 1st round pick or trade IMO.

There are a half dozen pass catching TE's expected to go in the 2nd and third round. So there is an opportunity to draft someone who helps maintain the team's identity and for a longer term than Tony G.

 

[lauraw]

Cardshark, I second that! Mitch, another fine write up! Do your Cardinal's Mock Draft officially!!

 

[Arizona's Finest]

There are a half dozen pass catching TE's expected to go in the 2nd and third round. So there is an opportunity to draft someone who helps maintain the team's identity and for a longer term than Tony G.

Much like teams on the precipice of a title in NY and Philly who desire to go the vet route with Q rather then a rookie (who has a 1/10 chance of producing #1 WR numbers in his first year) I think it would be a almost laughable mistake to rely on a 2nd or 3rd round TE to replace the loss of Q's offense.

We are not that far. And while I see the value of trading Q now - as we have shown we can win with out him and his value will never be higher - if you think the value Tony G would provide in this offense for even 2 years is not 10X more then a even Chase Coffman I don't know what to tell you. We only have Warner for 2 years max anyway so why not get him a weapon like Gonzalez to play with?

I think Tony G would be a must have here if we lose Q because a) leadership in locker room b) solidify the position c) make teams have to defend the TE in the passing game d) and the fact that he would be playing with his hair on fire to get a ring.

PLus its a lot closer to his home in San Diego and for a contender.

Makes too much sense IMO.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Much like teams on the precipice of a title in NY and Philly who desire to go the vet route with Q rather then a rookie (who has a 1/10 chance of producing #1 WR numbers in his first year) I think it would be a almost laughable mistake to rely on a 2nd or 3rd round TE to replace the loss of Q's offense.

We are not that far. And while I see the value of trading Q now - as we have shown we can win with out him and his value will never be higher - if you think the value Tony G would provide in this offense for even 2 years is not 10X more then a even Chase Coffman I don't know what to tell you. We only have Warner for 2 years max anyway so why not get him a weapon like Gonzalez to play with?

I think Tony G would be a must have here if we lose Q because a) leadership in locker room b) solidify the position c) make teams have to defend the TE in the passing game d) and the fact that he would be playing with his hair on fire to get a ring.

PLus its a lot closer to his home in San Diego and for a contender.

Makes too much sense IMO.

Care to give us the cost of your Tony G... dream?

(PS) you can't speak to whether Tony G would be a leader in the locker room, and teams will have to defend any TE who runs good routes.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Much like teams on the precipice of a title in NY and Philly who desire to go the vet route with Q rather then a rookie (who has a 1/10 chance of producing #1 WR numbers in his first year) I think it would be a almost laughable mistake to rely on a 2nd or 3rd round TE to replace the loss of Q's offense.

We are not that far. And while I see the value of trading Q now - as we have shown we can win with out him and his value will never be higher - if you think the value Tony G would provide in this offense for even 2 years is not 10X more then a even Chase Coffman I don't know what to tell you. We only have Warner for 2 years max anyway so why not get him a weapon like Gonzalez to play with?

I think Tony G would be a must have here if we lose Q because a) leadership in locker room b) solidify the position c) make teams have to defend the TE in the passing game d) and the fact that he would be playing with his hair on fire to get a ring.

PLus its a lot closer to his home in San Diego and for a contender.

Makes too much sense IMO.

No need to concern yourself with this scenario:

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9490416/Sources:-Chiefs-agree-to-deal-Gonzalez-to-Falcons

 

[Arizona's Finest]

No need to concern yourself with this scenario:

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9490416/Sources:-Chiefs-agree-to-deal-Gonzalez-to-Falcons

Saw that. Sucks.

To answer your original question if we would have gotten a 1st and a 3rd for Q - I would have traded our 2nd at the end of the round.

 

[WildBB]

If we took Barwin and Brown, i would be kind of worried taking 2 players from the Big East in round 1.They don't exactly play the best level of competition in that conference until about mid-november with a round ball. I wouldn't hate the Barwin pick but i want more of a polished product in round 1. It's hard to project how he'll transition to the NFL.

I do like Cincy's head coach. Brian Kelly is going to become a hot commodity in the coaching ranks within a couple years.

That Big East cnference has gotten pretty tough from top to bottom. There's alot of legit football talent there too.

 

[WildBB]

Barwin is possibly this year's DRC is regards to athleticism, but he's much rawer than DRC was. Like joe said, he won't be a starter for a while because he'll have to learn the position.

I like Veikune because he smooth and is always around the ball, but he doesn't seem second round worthy. I don't see upside with him and his athleticism is only average. 4th round? Yep, but not in the second.

I agree about your inside linebackers. I'm starting to think that McKillop is not far off from Rey.

I don't see McKillop lasting to our 3rd. That's why we'd need a 3rd at least in any trade.