Duane Washington Jr. signs a two-way contract with the Suns

[Chaplin]

With a 6'7 wingspan, so he is basically the same size as payne

He said he was 5 inches taller. That is incorrect. And I know Cam has a bad rep, but he is a far better player than Washington. At least he is until Washington proves he isn’t.

 

[Mainstreet]

This appears to be the Suns move to backup PG. I don't expect another move at this spot. If so, the Suns either think they found a diamond in the rough or don't think they need that much help at this position. If the Suns don't get KD, they still need some FC help. It's going to be interesting to see if they make any other moves.

I view the addition of Washington more like cheap insurance at the guard position.

Ideally, it would be nice to add a big man in the other two-way spot or the best player available.

I'd like to see the situation on Wainright clarified. As far as I know, the Suns have a regular roster spot available and one two-way spot.

 

[Covert Rain]

I view the addition of Washington more like cheap insurance at the guard position.

Ideally, it would be nice to add a big man in the other two-way spot or the best player available.

I'd like to see the situation on Wainright clarified. As far as I know, the Suns have a regular roster spot available and one two-way spot.

Looks like backup Guard by committee approach much like they did with the backup center last year. If I was a Suns fan I wouldn't hold out hope for anymore moves at this position barring a big trade moving several pieces out.

 

[Mainstreet]

Looks like backup Guard by committee approach much like they did with the backup center last year. If I was a Suns fan I wouldn't hold out hope for anymore moves at this position barring a big trade moving several pieces out.

I'd consider a trade with Utah for Jordan Clarkson and Jarred Vanderbilt if the Suns don't get Durant.

 

[Covert Rain]

He said he was 5 inches taller. That is incorrect. And I know Cam has a bad rep, but he is a far better player than Washington. At least he is until Washington proves he isn’t.

Based on one season for Washinton verse Payne's entire career? Not sure that is a good comparison. However, looking at last season it appears the only thing that Cam did much better during the season was Assists. That completely evaporated in the playoffs as at one point Cam had more turnovers than assists and had one of the worst turnover ratios in the entire playoffs. Although I agree he is a better passer than Washington.

I think Washington could compete to replace Cam. He is more efficient and turns the ball over less per game. I would like to see how the system impacts Washington's game. Now if Monty actually gives Washington a chance is an ENTIRELY different story. Monty didn't give Holiday much of a chance.

Rk	Player	From	To	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	2P	2PA	2P%	eFG%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS
1	Cameron Payne	2022	2022	58	12	22.0	4.1	10.1	.409	1.2	3.6	.336	2.9	6.5	.449	.469	1.3	1.5	.843	0.4	2.6	3.0	4.9	0.7	0.3	1.8	2.1	10.8
2	Duane Washington Jr.	2022	2022	48	7	20.2	3.6	8.9	.405	1.7	4.5	.377	1.9	4.4	.434	.500	1.0	1.3	.754	0.1	1.6	1.7	1.8	0.5	0.1	1.2	1.4	9.9

 

[Mainstreet]

In comparing Cam Payne to Duane Washington Jr. in regard to assists, one should look at the assist to turnover ratio.

Payne was clearly better in this regard,

In 2022 Payne had 4.9 assists to 1.8 turnovers.

Washington Jr. had 1.8 assists to 1.2 turnovers.

 

[Covert Rain]

In comparing Cam Payne to Duane Washington Jr. in regard to assists, one should look at the assist to turnover ratio.

Payne was clearly better in this regard,

In 2022 Payne had 4.9 assists to 1.8 turnovers.

Washington Jr. had 1.8 assists to 1.2 turnovers.

Cam is the better passer looking at overall career. That didn't help Cam from March on last year or in the playoffs. This will be Washington's first time in THIS system. If given a chance, he raises his assists totals and keeps his turnovers low (he averages less than Cam), I would expect the ratio to improve. Also, cam was playing a ton with McGee off the bench. Washington had no such luxury. I hope Monty gives him a shot unlike Holiday.

 

[Mainstreet]

Cam is the better passer looking at overall career. That didn't help Cam from March on last year or in the playoffs. This will be Washington's first time in THIS system. If given a chance, he raises his assists totals and keeps his turnovers low (he averages less than Cam), I would expect the ratio to improve. Also, cam was playing a ton with McGee off the bench. Washington had no such luxury. I hope Monty gives him a shot unlike Holiday.

We agree the Suns need additional help at point guard. I'm not comfortable going into the season without another distributor.

At least now the Suns have someone to groom as a facilitator, shot creator or at least another shooter.

I'm excited Phoenix addressed a position of need, if only on a two-way contract.

 

[Covert Rain]

We agree the Suns need additional help at point guard. I'm not comfortable going into the season without another distributor.

At least now the Suns have someone to groom as a facilitator, shot creator or at least another shooter.

I'm excited Phoenix addressed a position of need, if only on a two-way contract.

Certainly, being a better passer would be gravy. However, he can put some points on the board when our starters are sitting. Plus, in almost every loss during the regular season we averaged I think 19 turnovers per game (I think is what I read or something like that). If he can put some points on the board, limit turnovers off the bench? It could help. I would like to see them make another move at the FC position KD or no KD.

 

[Fumats20]

The question is will Monty play him? Will Monty be patient to let him develop? I assume Monty still wants to win after he lost McGee who Jones said was better than a developing player in a world where bigs are considered of no value. Now we talking the position of most importance and a player who is looking for more than a 2 way contract everytime he gets in the game. Does Monty trust him to run the offense?

 

[Mainstreet]

Certainly, being a better passer would be gravy. However, he can put some points on the board when our starters are sitting. Plus, in almost every loss during the regular season we averaged I think 19 turnovers per game (I think is what I read or something like that). If he can put some points on the board, limit turnovers off the bench? It could help. I would like to see them make another move at the FC position KD or no KD.

It's interesting the Suns go into almost every season with the same two needs: point guard/shot creator and power forward.

If the Suns don't trade for Durant, I hope they will strengthen these two positions.

 

[Muggz]

It's interesting the Suns go into almost every season with the same two needs: point guard/shot creator and power forward.

If the Suns don't trade for Durant, I hope they will strengthen these two positions.

This is where I'm at. Same positions needed for the past couple of seasons.
If we start the season AS IS, I'm not impressed.

I hoping that sooner or later Monte will realize he needs to use and develop the bench.
You cant have or expect a competitive bench in the playoffs if they didn't get playing time during the season.
Fingers crossed after last season Monte figured it out.

 

[AzStevenCal]

This is where I'm at. Same positions needed for the past couple of seasons.
If we start the season AS IS, I'm not impressed.

I hoping that sooner or later Monte will realize he needs to use and develop the bench.
You cant have or expect a competitive bench in the playoffs if they didn't get playing time during the season.
Fingers crossed after last season Monte figured it out.

The NBA is positionless, has been for a long time so it's not like there are five positions and we're always searching for the same two.

Pretty much every team is looking for the same upgrades each year that we are. In today's NBA, you need lead guards that can get their own shot and create for others, and power players that can score and defend on the perimeter but still bang down low when needed. Oh, and tall, athletic two way wings. That's pretty much it, every team's shopping list. We all have those players, we all just want more of them. And there isn't enough quality to go around for all of us.

 

[Covert Rain]

The question is will Monty play him? Will Monty be patient to let him develop? I assuming Monty still wants to win after he lost McGee who Jones said was better than a developing player in a world where bigs are considered of no value. Now we talking the position of most importance and a player who is looking for more than a 2 way contract everytime he gets on the game. Does Monty trust him to run the offense?

That's the million-dollar question and I admit I have little hope considering Monty's previous actions.

 

[Chaplin]

Based on one season for Washinton verse Payne's entire career?

Of course! Payne is still the 2nd PG after CP3, Washington is on a 2-way. Again, if Washington is better he has to prove it. One season on a bad team doesn’t make him better than cam Payne even if their stats are comparable in 2021-2022.

 

[Mainstreet]

I do like Washington has a floater when he can't get all the way to the rim.

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[Muggz]

The NBA is positionless, has been for a long time so it's not like there are five positions and we're always searching for the same two.

Pretty much every team is looking for the same upgrades each year that we are. In today's NBA, you need lead guards that can get their own shot and create for others, and power players that can score and defend on the perimeter but still bang down low when needed. Oh, and tall, athletic two way wings. That's pretty much it, every team's shopping list. We all have those players, we all just want more of them. And there isn't enough quality to go around for all of us.

Not worried about other teams, I only care what the Suns need.

 

[Covert Rain]

Of course! Payne is still the 2nd PG after CP3, Washington is on a 2-way. Again, if Washington is better he has to prove it. One season on a bad team doesn’t make him better than cam Payne even if their stats are comparable in 2021-2022.

He is already comparable except in assists. That doesn't jibe with "FAR" better. Cam Payne in his first year? He was 5/1.9 a night guy. Not a very logical comparison any other way to a guy's rookie year otherwise IMO.

 

[Hoop Head]

Everybody asking if Monty will give him a chance but the Suns aren't in a position to give players chances. They're competing for a championship. A player has to earn minutes and if they can't earn minutes then it's on them. I'm not going to blame Monty for not playing some raw kid who isn't very good. It makes sense to go with who has proven themselves already.

We also don't see practices. So no one here can say for certain that Washington is a better option than Payne, for example. Seeing Washington do something in garbage minutes isn't an indicator he'll be capable of doing that when minutes matter and teams are competing at their peak.

I'm not saying I hope this kid doesn't pan out. I hope he's a legit player who can lighten the load for others on the team but I'm not going to fault Monty if he doesn't cut it either.

 

[Mainstreet]

It's good to have another point guard option in addition to Cam Payne.

Since Washington is on a two-way contract, there is not much risk involved. No one is handing him a standard roster spot or giving him playing time. Still, it's nice to have options.

If I'm the Suns, I'm still looking for additional players that can facilitate/create and added front court depth.

It's all complicated by the Suns need to maintain flexibility while they pursue Durant or contemplate trades.

 

[Covert Rain]

Everybody asking if Monty will give him a chance but the Suns aren't in a position to give players chances. They're competing for a championship. A player has to earn minutes and if they can't earn minutes then it's on them. I'm not going to blame Monty for not playing some raw kid who isn't very good. It makes sense to go with who has proven themselves already.

We also don't see practices. So no one here can say for certain that Washington is a better option than Payne, for example. Seeing Washington do something in garbage minutes isn't an indicator he'll be capable of doing that when minutes matter and teams are competing at their peak.

I'm not saying I hope this kid doesn't pan out. I hope he's a legit player who can lighten the load for others on the team but I'm not going to fault Monty if he doesn't cut it either.

They are in the PERFECT position to do this during camp, practices and the regular season. That is how you normally earn minutes. The problem with Monty is he is fiercely loyal to players. For example, many NBA analyst has said that Holiday looked impressive during Suns practices, and he looked good here in there in games. Yet, Monty never really gave him the chance out of loyalty to Payne. He did something similar with Frank the year before. Nobody knows if this kid will pan out or could beat out Payne but Monty seems to limit those opportunities out of loyalty for some players.

Go back and read the forums the past couple years. You will see post after post about Frank the year before and Holiday this past season even though the players ahead of them were playing like complete crap or couldn't stay on the court for stretches.

 

[Hoop Head]

They are in the PERFECT position to do this during camp, practices and the regular season. That is how you normally earn minutes. The problem with Monty is he is fiercely loyal to players. For example, many NBA analyst has said that Holiday looked impressive during Suns practices, and he looked good here in there in games. Yet, Monty never really gave him the chance out of loyalty to Payne. He did something similar with Frank the year before. Nobody knows if this kid will pan out or could beat out Payne but Monty seems to limit those opportunities out of loyalty for some players.

Go back and read the forums the past couple years. You will see post after post about Frank the year before and Holiday this past season even though the players ahead of them were playing like complete crap or couldn't stay on the court for stretches.

I saw it with Frank. I was pissed he was cut from the rotation entirely in the 2021 playoffs.

I saw a lot of posters calling for Holiday but don't recall any reporters saying he looked good or anything like that. He looked decent in limited minutes during the season but he very rarely played PG. He was typically out there with Payne, Paul, or Booker and playing off the ball. Holiday isn't a PG. There's a reason Washington gave him away for nothing. I don't fault Monty for sticking with Payne in the playoffs.

Teams don't play 13 deep. Monty was already going 9-10 deep with the starters, Payne, Shamet, Cam J, Craig, and McGee. Ish, Biyombo, Holiday, and Payton rounded out the roster and frankly if I'm coaching in a playoff atmosphere then I'll go back to my starters earlier than going deeper on the bench. I can't think of any coach who goes deeper in the bench in those scenarios.

That's not to say he couldn't make adjustments between games but there's limited time available and size was an issue in both playoff series this year. Going smaller with Holiday wasn't going to help considering he's the same height as Paul and look at how defenses threw him off.

 

[Chaplin]

He is already comparable except in assist. That doesn't jibe with "FAR" better. Cam Payne in his first year? He was 5/1.9 a night guy. Not a very logical comparison any other way to a guy's rookie year otherwise IMO.

Lol

The suns obviously disagree with you since they didn’t sign him to a regular contract.

 

[Phrazbit]

Cam averaged 14-9 on solid shooting stats as a starter last year, the year before he was one of the best back up point guards in the league. Last year he was still among the upper tier of backup point guards. If his shooting stats recover to where they were from 2019-2021 he will again be one of the best back up point guards in the league.

He sucked in the playoffs... along with almost everyone else.

 

[Mainstreet]

Cam averaged 14-9 on solid shooting stats as a starter last year, the year before he was one of the best back up point guards in the league. Last year he was still among the upper tier of backup point guards. If his shooting stats recover to where they were from 2019-2021 he will again be one of the best back up point guards in the league.

He sucked in the playoffs... along with almost everyone else.

Payne can get frustrated when opponents take away the drive to the basket.

He needs to figure out some other shots to supplement the 3-pointer.