Durant to Suns

[Superbone]

I am almost more confident. This gives us a chance to peak in the playoffs Warriors style.

 

[Outerlimits]

I'm not sure why some of you guys are in panic mode. Hell, the Suns played a phenomenal game against the Thunder(plus Thunder scored least amount of points in about a month.). Booker has been on fire, and even Paul showed up and had a good game. They will be fine and Durant will be back in a couple weeks.

I admit though I don't follow basketball to the same extent as other sports. Perhaps I'm being too optimistic?

 

[Proximo]

I'm not sure why some of you guys are in panic mode. Hell, the Suns played a phenomenal game against the Thunder(plus Thunder scored least amount of points in about a month.). Booker has been on fire, and even Paul showed up and had a good game. They will be fine and Durant will be back in a couple weeks.

I admit though I don't follow basketball to the same extent as other sports. Perhaps I'm being too optimistic?

Because that was one game and the Thunder minus Shai is not a very good team.

We only have a 3 game lead in the loss column over the play in. If things go even a bit wrong, we could find ourselves out of the playoffs.

 

[JohnnyCakes]

It's funny that this is the time you feel the Republic is a bastion of journalistic integrity.

When did I say that?

 

[JohnnyCakes]

Durant out 3 weeks minimum . Will be "re-evaluated" after 3 weeks.

I miss Bridges..

 

[Pokinmik]

Because that was one game and the Thunder minus Shai is not a very good team.

We only have a 3 game lead in the loss column over the play in. If things go even a bit wrong, we could find ourselves out of the playoffs.

Nah we would have to lose every single game plus some other combo of highly unlikely math. There are so many teams between us and the bottom of the playoffs. Don’t forget those teams all play eachother too and will be taking losses.

We’re going to be totally fine as long as Durant is fully healthy in 3-4 weeks at the latest. But of course it sucks we don’t get to watch him for 8-12 games or so.

 

[Covert Rain]

Because that was one game and the Thunder minus Shai is not a very good team.

We only have a 3 game lead in the loss column over the play in. If things go even a bit wrong, we could find ourselves out of the playoffs.

No, they would have to go REALLY REALLY wrong. You are assuming all of the teams between us and them go on a winning streak and we go completely in the tank. We will be in the playoffs. Where is the question. However, if Book keeps playing like he is, CP3 resurgence continues? We should be fine until KD comes back.

 

[Proximo]

No, they would have to go REALLY REALLY wrong. You are assuming all of the teams between us and them go on a winning streak and we go completely in the tank. We will be in the playoffs. Where is the question. However, if Book keeps playing like he is, CP3 resurgence continues? We should be fine until KD comes back.

All it takes is one Booker hamstring pull, and we are completely screwed.

 

[Covert Rain]

All it takes is one Booker hamstring pull, and we are completely screwed.

Yeah but that's also true of any of the teams on that list. If their star goes down? Same result. I just hope Monty manages Book's minutes. To me that is the bigger danger in this stretch.

 

[TJ]

Durant out 3 weeks minimum . Will be "re-evaluated" after 3 weeks.

I miss Bridges..

You can always go root for the Nets

 

[JohnnyCakes]

You can always go root for the Nets

I'd rather the Suns just stop trading away good young players for old players who get hurt.

 

[Covert Rain]

I'd rather the Suns just stop trading away good young players for old players who get hurt.

Can we see how this all turns out first?

 

[AzStevenCal]

Can we see how this all turns out first?

If you think it's a good trade based on how we do over the next 3.5 years, yes it's too early to call this is a bad trade. If you think it's a bad trade because we grossly overpaid for a 34 year old with serious injury risks, then no, we don't need to see how it turns out first. As fans all we can do is hope that we beat the injury odds and this little setback for KD doesn't really change anything in the long run.

 

[Covert Rain]

If you think it's a good trade based on how we do over the next 3.5 years, yes it's too early to call this is a bad trade. If you think it's a bad trade because we grossly overpaid for a 34 year old with serious injury risks, then no, we don't need to see how it turns out first. As fans all we can do is hope that we beat the injury odds and this little setback for KD doesn't really change anything in the long run.

Half agree with you. I don't think you can say we "overpaid" if it leads to a title. The value of a trade is ultimately measured on the success your team has as a result of that trade (i.e. a title).

 

[AzStevenCal]

Half agree with you. I don't think you can say we "overpaid" if it leads to a title. The value of a trade is ultmiately measured on the sucess your team has as a rsult of that trade (i.e. a title).

And this is what gets me here. If you take a shot from 60 feet with 20 seconds left on the clock while trailing by 1 point, that's a bad shot whether you make it or not. You can be happy after the fact if it wins the game but it doesn't change the fact you unnecessarily risked the outcome on a huge long shot.

Durant's health history, even without the fact that his Achilles injury makes him more prone to lower body injuries than other players, means he's a huge risk. IMO just swallowing KD's salary should have given the Brooklyn Nets enough return on the deal to make it worthwhile (not that they'd see it that way). But every asset we included just made the deal that much worse. KD is great when he plays the game but he's great at NOT playing the game too.

 

[Covert Rain]

And this is what gets me here. If you take a shot from 60 feet with 20 seconds left on the clock while trailing by 1 point, that's a bad shot whether you make it or not. You can be happy after the fact if it wins the game but it doesn't change the fact you unnecessarily risked the outcome on a huge long shot.

Durant's health history, even without the fact that his Achilles injury makes him more prone to lower body injuries than other players, means he's a huge risk. IMO just swallowing KD's salary should have given the Brooklyn Nets enough return on the deal to make it worthwhile (not that they'd see it that way). But every asset we included just made the deal that much worse. KD is great when he plays the game but he's great at NOT playing the game too.

You are trying to compare a single play in a single game to an overall outcome of a trade that can net you a title(s)? Having said that? Let's look at games in general. The majority of fans after looking down a list of games in the W or L column don't after the fact obsess over the risks game to game. Each game is a story in itself but only a small piece of what happens over the course of a season. They simply look at the outcomes during a stretch or at the end of the season. Why? Because that's what matters the most. RESULTS.

I am not going to disagree with you on all the risks aspects of the trade. At the end of the day what is the goal? Every coach and NBA player will tell you a title. If a move no matter how risky or high priced it was gets you a title then it was a good move and worth the price. It's all conditional naturally on the outcome of the next couple seasons.

 

[AzStevenCal]

You are trying to compare a single play in a single game to an overall outcome of a trade that can net you a title(s)? Having said that? Let's look at games in general. The majority of fans after looking down a list of games in the W or L column don't after the fact obsess over the risks game to game. Each game is a story in itself but only a small piece of what happens over the course of a season. They simply look at the outcomes during a stretch or at the end of the season. Why? Because that's what matters the most. RESULTS.

I am not going to disagree with you on all the risks aspects of the trade. At the end of the day what is the goal? Every coach and NBA player will tell you a title. If a move no matter how risky or high priced it was gets you a title then it was a good move and worth the price. It's all conditional naturally on the outcome of the next couple seasons.

You made your point well, I disagree completely though. Relying on blind luck is no way to run a sports team or a business and IMO any real analysis shows we didn't adequately factor risk into the equation. We paid for a superstar in his prime and it's highly unlikely we'll see much of that. We'll see some of that, yes, but not enough to warrant paying full price for damaged goods.

 

[Covert Rain]

You made your point well, I disagree completely though. Blind luck is no way to run a sports team or a business and IMO any real analysis shows we didn't adequately factor risk into the equation. We paid for a superstar in his prime but it's highly unlikely we'll see much of that. We'll see some of that, yes, but not enough to warrant paying full price for damaged goods.

Blind luck is taking it way too far. He is a HOF player and one of the best in the entire NBA. I am sure the Suns did weigh risk. They felt that the potential outweighed the risk. We have no idea if that was a good analysis on their part...YET.

If Durant nets zero titles and is hurt the entire time he is here? I think it's fair for some people to say it was a bad trade. For me personally? I will still say it was worth the risk because IMO these are the types of risk a team like the Suns have to make to get a chance. 55 Years of no titles proves that.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Blind luck is taking it way too far. He is a HOF player and one of the best in the entire NBA. I am sure the Suns did weigh risk. They felt that the potential outweighed the risk. We have no idea if that was a good analysis on their part...YET.

If Durant nets zero titles and is hurt the entire time he is here? I think it's fair for some people to say it was a bad trade. For me personally? I will still say it was worth the risk because IMO these are the types a risk a team like the Suns have to make to get a chance. 55 Years of no titles proves that.

Yes we do, that's been my point all along. We have his age and history of injuries along with the medical evidence on basketball players following an Achilles rupture available. Yet we apparently either ignored those facts or we choose to gamble even though the odds were well against us.

And the idea that we had to make this trade because we've never had a title seems misguided to me. How many times have you seen a team succeed by trading away key players and a bunch of picks for an injury riddled superstar near the end of his career? Some team wins an NBA title every single season but I can't recall a single time the winner did something like this.

 

[Covert Rain]

Yes we do, that's been my point all along. We have his age and history of injuries along with the medical evidence on basketball players following an Achilles rupture available. Yet we apparently either ignored those facts or we choose to gamble even though the odds were well against us.

And the idea that we had to make this trade because we've never had a title seems misguided to me. How many times have you seen a team succeed by trading away key players and a bunch of picks for an injury riddled superstar near the end of his career? Some team wins an NBA title every single season but I can't recall a single time the winner did something like this.

Unless you can predict the future we really don't. I am not saying that you are or are not likely to be right but you have no idea how this is going to turn out and I don't either. The team has taken 55 years of shots to get this done. Some people thought we were crazy to trade for Barkley with all his issues. Some people thought we were crazy for paying Nash what we did. Seems like the best shots we have ever had came with risk.

Is this the riskiest? I could buy that argument and don't disagree.

Why else do the Suns make this trade then? You don't think the front office and ownership are well aware of the teams 55 year history? EVERYBODY IS. They are well aware this is one of the most winning franchise IN ALL OF SPORTS without a title.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Unless you can predict the future we really don't. I am not saying that you are or are not likely to be right but you have no idea how this is going to turn out and I don't either.

Why else do the Suns make this trade then? You don't think the front office and ownership are well aware of the teams 55 year history? EVERYBODY IS. They are well aware this is one of the most winning franchise IN ALL OF SPORTS without a title.

Of course we made the deal in hopes of winning a title, I'm not disputing that. I'm talking about the analysis they either didn't do or (more likely) disregarded when the new owner said make the deal anyway.

If we'd included Booker instead of CamJ would you finally say, hell no? Or would you still say, there's no predicting the future and we have never won a title so we have to take a risk? We both know the answer. I'm just saying given the risks our outgoing package was already well past the reasonable point. You're disagreeing. Anything else is smoke and mirrors.

 

[Covert Rain]

Of course we made the deal in hopes of winning a title, I'm not disputing that. I'm talking about the analysis they clearly didn't do (or disregarded when the new owner said make the deal anyway).

If we'd included Booker instead of CamJ would you finally say, hell no? Or would you still say, there's no predicting the future and we have never won a title so we have to take a risk? We both know the answer, I'm just saying our outgoing package was already well past the reasonable point. You're disagreeing. Anything else is smoke and mirrors.

I know that is your opinion they overlooked risk or disregarded risk but that simply isn't realistic. I am just not sure how you can say that. I mean just between fans on this forum it's debated. It just seems a bit ridiculous to think that everyone in that organization at every level didn't discuss this trade and weigh all of that.

The Suns could very well have blown their analysis. I am not saying that isn't possible.

The only thing unreasonable to me is trying to judge the outcome of the trade before we even see how this plays out. When KD's time is done and gone? It's fair game.

 

[Mainstreet]

Yes we do, that's been my point all along. We have his age and history of injuries along with the medical evidence on basketball players following an Achilles rupture available. Yet we apparently either ignored those facts or we choose to gamble even though the odds were well against us.

And the idea that we had to make this trade because we've never had a title seems misguided to me. How many times have you seen a team succeed by trading away key players and a bunch of picks for an injury riddled superstar near the end of his career? Some team wins an NBA title every single season but I can't recall a single time the winner did something like this.

We pretty much agree eye-to-eye about the Suns giving up too much in the trade for Durant. I've been trying to move past it but it's been hard.

I keep reading the linked article below, which contains an interview with new Suns owner Mat Ishbia. I guess I don't think the Suns made the right decision based upon the best available information. Do I hope I am wrong? Every day. I think there is plenty of risk.

I felt the Suns were very close to a championship, and a lesser trade could have got them there without sacrificing a huge chunk of their future.

Chris Mannix Feb 21, 2023, Sports Illustrated:

However I don't look at it like a risk at all. I know what the vision is. I'm going to own this team for 50 years, so like zero [risk]. I don't need to come in and win in the first year. But at the same time, there's nothing in my life that I don't want to win at. We're going to try to win everything we do. And so I don't look at it as risk at all. Everyone can say what they want to say. If something happened and we didn't win, it was still the right thing. You make the decision with the best available information you have at the time, you make the decision and then you run with it and you try to make it work.

https://www.si.com/nba/2023/02/21/mat-ishbia-suns-mercury-owner-interview

 

[AzStevenCal]

I know that is your opinion they overlooked risk or disregarded risk but that simply isn't realistic. I am just not sure how you can say that. I mean just between fans on this forum it's debated. It just seems a bit ridiculous to think that everyone in that organization at every level didn't discuss this trade and weigh all of that.

The only thing unreasonable to me is trying to judge the outcome of the trade before we even see how this plays out. When KD's time is done and gone? It's fair game.

I really don't believe the ones that did the analysis ignored the risk. IMO that analysis was the reason we couldn't get the deal done. Until Ishbia disregarded it and overruled JJ. And I seriously expect that we will eventually learn that he leaned heavily on input from his basketball idol in making this overcall.

 

[Covert Rain]

We pretty much agree eye-to-eye about the Suns giving up too much in the trade for Durant. I've been trying to move past it but it's been hard.

I keep reading the linked article below, which contains an interview with new Suns owner Mat Ishbia. I guess I don't think the Suns made the right decision based upon the best available information. Do I hope I am wrong? Every day. I think there is plenty of risk.

I felt the Suns were very close to a championship, and a lesser trade could have got them there without sacrificing a huge chunk of their future.

Chris Mannix Feb 21, 2023, Sports Illustrated:

https://www.si.com/nba/2023/02/21/mat-ishbia-suns-mercury-owner-interview

"You make the decision with the best available information you have at the time, you make the decision and then you run with it and you try to make it work."

This seems to say it all to me.