Durant to Suns

[95pro]

I was on the get rid of Beal wagon.

Now I’m also on the get rid Kd wagon.

This guy just takes us out of offense entirely making everyone ineffective on offense.

Iso sucks!

 

[Yuma]

The sucky part of being a 2nd apron team (aside from limited ability to get better) is you can’t get out from under it. KD expiring is the only way we can get below $190m because the three guys combined nearly equal the 2nd apron limit.

This is what I hated about the new CBA. Yes they should have a stick to deter teams from staying in the aprons. However, they make it extremely hard to get off it. For example, the matching salaries should have a greater margin allowed for teams over the second apron. We should be allowed to take back as little as 60 or 50 percent in return. Otherwise you are just moving deck chairs around.

 

[Hoop Head]

I was on the get rid of Beal wagon.

Now I’m also on the get rid Kd wagon.

This guy just takes us out of offense entirely making everyone ineffective on offense.

Iso sucks!

Beal is a bad fit in that he's redundant with Booker.

KD is a bad fit because he won't play within the offense and doesn't rebound like a PF.

A team can find a way to make Booker and Beal work and they both will work towards bettering the team, as we've seen since Beal was benched. KD only wants to do things his way, for better or worse.

 

[AZJ]

I was on the get rid of Beal wagon.

Now I’m also on the get rid Kd wagon.

This guy just takes us out of offense entirely making everyone ineffective on offense.

Iso sucks!

This might be one of the only ways we ensure not having to go through a longer rebuild once this is finally blown up. KD still has value and we can probably get a good deal of our future back. However, I have a hard time believing the FO would really be willing to do so.

 

[Hoop Head]

This is what I hated about the new CBA. Yes they should have a stick to deter teams from staying in the aprons. However, they make it extremely hard to get off it. For example, the matching salaries should have a greater margin allowed for teams over the second apron. We should be allowed to take back as little as 60 or 50 percent in return. Otherwise you are just moving deck chairs around.

We can take less back in a trade. Say KD for Middleton, who makes $30 million. That's legal provided Milwaukee can absorb the difference in salary. Legal trade rules apply though and deals must be within 15% of the traded amount, so we could legally deal KD for someone making $44 million without issue. We can't take back more than KD's, or anyone's salary. Less is ok within normal rules.

 

[Yuma]

We can take less back in a trade. Say KD for Middleton, who makes $30 million. That's legal provided Milwaukee can absorb the difference in salary. Legal trade rules apply though and deals must be within 15% of the traded amount, so we could legally deal KD for someone making $44 million without issue. We can't take back more than KD's, or anyone's salary. Less is ok within normal rules.

I saw that in the CBA, and I still think the take back salary is too high. I mean, you want teams under the apron. That is the ultimate goal of the CBA right? How can teams do that when they have to take the majority of a contract back in return? Say I have a $50 million plus salary and I am over the first apron, that amount listed may be OK. I am over the second apron, I need to be able to move more salary in one shot to get compliant.

 

[1tinsoldier]

I was on the get rid of Beal wagon.

Now I’m also on the get rid Kd wagon.

This guy just takes us out of offense entirely making everyone ineffective on offense.

Iso sucks!

you're hitching your wagon to the wrong horse. At least Durant gets off good looks. Why complain about Durant's 52% iso style ball when Booker's iso style ball is 44% (and Beal, who plays less iso is 49%)?

Durant has the best defensive rating of the 3. Booker is worst. And he is significantly worse in clutch shooting. Also, we're saddled with a worse salary commitment with Book, who probably won't even be an all-star and his career is most notable for leading the Sun's to their most historic meltdowns. Durant is still one of the league's best scorer's and is still playing at a superstar level.

it's amazing to me how much value local fans place on a player being "home-grown" when they all come from some other state anyway.

 

[Hoop Head]

I saw that in the CBA, and I still think the take back salary is too high. I mean, you want teams under the apron. That is the ultimate goal of the CBA right? How can teams do that when they have to take the majority of a contract back in return? Say I have a $50 million plus salary and I am over the first apron, that amount listed may be OK. I am over the second apron, I need to be able to move more salary in one shot to get compliant.

That's why there are multiple aprons and many questioned Ishbia disregarding them entirely when he traded for Beal. You know what you sign up for. The aprons are a deterrent and the aprons are well over the tax line. The second apron is $46 million over the salary cap. That isn't done easily or mistakenly. Ishbia said to hell with the apron though when he brought in Beal and we're now paying for that since it didn't result in wins like anticipated.

 

[Yuma]

That's why there are multiple aprons and many questioned Ishbia disregarding them entirely when he traded for Beal. You know what you sign up for. The aprons are a deterrent and the aprons are well over the tax line. The second apron is $46 million over the salary cap. That isn't done easily or mistakenly. Ishbia said to hell with the apron though when he brought in Beal and we're now paying for that since it didn't result in wins like anticipated.

Blowing up your whole roster to get under both aprons is not a light deal. It's a penalty in itself. You really hurt the fans when you don't allow the team to get back in compliance easily. You extend the malaise of the team longer. That's not good for the NBA either.

 

[1tinsoldier]

...speaking of meltdowns, the Suns just lost by 26. Booker had 6 turnovers on 6 of 14 shooting after forcing too many shots. Durant was 9 of 16.

 

[Hoop Head]

Blowing up your whole roster to get under both aprons is not a light deal. It's a penalty in itself. You really hurt the fans when you don't allow the team to get back in compliance easily. You extend the malaise of the team longer. That's not good for the NBA either.

That's on ownership, again. They shouldn't have exceeded the apron so much. They have shown a complete disregard for it though. That's not the leagues fault. The Suns are the only team $40 million + over the second the apron. Teams knew the line. The way some are trying to say the aprons are a bad thing sound like Laker fans. If Sarver owned the Suns still then the aprons would be viewed as a positive for a medium or small market team. Rich teams can't spend frivolously anymore.

 

[95pro]

you're hitching your wagon to the wrong horse. At least Durant gets off good looks. Why complain about Durant's 52% iso style ball when Booker's iso style ball is 44% (and Beal, who plays less iso is 49%)?

Durant has the best defensive rating of the 3. Booker is worst. And he is significantly worse in clutch shooting. Also, we're saddled with a worse salary commitment with Book, who probably won't even be an all-star and his career is most notable for leading the Sun's to their most historic meltdowns. Durant is still one of the league's best scorer's and is still playing at a superstar level.

it's amazing to me how much value local fans place on a player being "home-grown" when they all come from some other state anyway.

What do those offensive percentages add up to? Like 2-4 points difference?

Booker 25/4/6
KD 27/6/4

Booker isn’t an A player but he won’t bog this offense down with turnovers. He can initiate the offense too. He isn’t the system like KD.

KD just takes away everything from everyone. He negates having a point guard to initiate the tempo and offensive sets. He negates wide open wings by playing iso or deciding to make a crappy pass.

I know you hate Book. But KD is the bigger problem here. I know Book isn’t the guy to bring us home. But KD has gone and done more harm than good, even to the extent of how competitive we aren’t with a laid back culture.

 

[Hoop Head]

...speaking of meltdowns, the Suns just lost by 26. Booker had 6 turnovers on 6 of 14 shooting after forcing too many shots. Durant was 9 of 16.

And where were you when Booker had 5 games scoring over 30+? Oh yeah, that doesn't fit the narrative you push.

 

[Yuma]

That's on ownership, again. They shouldn't have exceeded the apron so much. They have shown a complete disregard for it though. That's not the leagues fault. The Suns are the only team $40 million + over the second the apron. Teams knew the line. The way some are trying to say the aprons are a bad thing sound like Laker fans. If Sarver owned the Suns still then the aprons would be viewed as a positive for a medium or small market team. Rich teams can't spend frivolously anymore.

I don't disagree with you. I think if the intent is to keep teams under the aprons, then it is hypocritical to make them take so much salary back in return.

 

[1tinsoldier]

i said, speaking of meltdowns. Today was a meltdown. And why should i talk about Booker's 5 good games when he had a dozen bad ones recently including shooting 14 for 52 just before the last 5 games. The temperature's dropped down to the 30's this week. I'm not going to get rid of my shorts and t-shirts.

 

[1tinsoldier]

What do those offensive percentages add up to? Like 2-4 points difference?

Booker 25/4/6
KD 27/6/4

you mean, what do those offensive and defensive stats add up to?

and the answer = wins and losses
when the worst part of those stats happens in crunch time
WHERE BOOKER IS WORST ON THIS TEAM
and this team IS WORST IN THE LEAGUE this year and last year
because Booker takes over the point guard role in crunch time, like he did most of last season
and he makes bad decisions

2 games ago we won in crunch time because Booker hit some crunch shots for a change
but during that period we almost blew our lead because Booker initiated 3 bad possessions in a row

the "you hate Booker" excuse doesn't cut it. Refute the facts or just say "i enjoy rooting for Booker" and i can accept that.

i'm happy that you can be happy that he's soon going to be the Sun with the most points after 10 years
but it's going to be 55 to 60 years of no Suns championship if your heart is still set on building around Devin Booker and his super-max salary

despite Durant's flaws, he's probably the most talented player Booker will ever have the opportunity to play with again (especially with his salary)

you want to get rid of Batman and keep Robin -- or, for most of this season, he's more like the time Alfred dressed up as Batman.
Alfred was never given his own show. And i'm tired of watching the Booker show. Boring. Been there, done that for a decade.

 

[1tinsoldier]

i was 100% against the Durant trade. And if we could get back the value we traded i'm in on trading him in consideration of the future. But for competing for a championship now, our current slim chance is better with Durant than if we had Cam Johnson and Bridges back. Those 2 and Booker were part of the meltdown crew. It was a relatively healthy CP3 at the core of our Conference Championship season.

 

[Mainstreet]

i was 100% against the Durant trade. And if we could get back the value we traded i'm in on trading him in consideration of the future. But for competing for a championship now, our current slim chance is better with Durant than if we had Cam Johnson and Bridges back. Those 2 and Booker were part of the meltdown crew. It was a relatively healthy CP3 at the core of our Conference Championship season.

And who was a part of the Finals crew? Hint, it wasn't Durant.

 

[Covert Rain]

you're hitching your wagon to the wrong horse. At least Durant gets off good looks. Why complain about Durant's 52% iso style ball when Booker's iso style ball is 44% (and Beal, who plays less iso is 49%)?

Durant has the best defensive rating of the 3. Booker is worst. And he is significantly worse in clutch shooting. Also, we're saddled with a worse salary commitment with Book, who probably won't even be an all-star and his career is most notable for leading the Sun's to their most historic meltdowns. Durant is still one of the league's best scorer's and is still playing at a superstar level.

it's amazing to me how much value local fans place on a player being "home-grown" when they all come from some other state anyway.

There is some truth to this. Booker cannot be your best player. We are not in the finals or make it without CP3. FULL STOP. We went out and got Durant because we needed another Tier 1 player next to Book. Durant was available and wanted to come here. So, say we get rid of Durant. Then what? What is the point? You still have to get a #1 player in here to play with him. I give Ishbia credit for going all out but it has not worked. Bulter won't solve it. I don't want Butler, I don't want Durant to get a 2 year extension. There is no point to that either. You are not getting any major value back for Durant or Beal. Booker is the only asset we have on this team to bring back pieces. His value is never going to get higher. He has had his worst year in terms of consistency. To me the only choice is to ride this out or blow it up.

 

[GatorAZ]

If the Nets get their asking price of two 1st rd picks for Cam J they will have received 11 first rd picks in totality from trading KD.

 

[Mainstreet]

If the Nets get their asking price of two 1st rd picks for Cam J they will have received 11 first rd picks in totality from trading KD.

I've been waiting for the grand total. At least 8 first round picks will be unprotected.