Edge, Hood, LaBoy cut

[joeshmo]

The cap implications with these moves.... We don't know! Under the new rules the team can "move" up to two players from the normal cap rules to the after June 1st cap rules. If Graves decides to do this, cutting both LaBoy and Hood could create space under the cap.

We do know already. Also the June 1st rule does not apply this year, it is completely out of the rule books for this season and there is no such thing. And there is no such thing this year becuase of the 2010 uncapped year.

 

[Pariah]

I think what many of us saw in Hood, was that he was a solid starter...

There have been many posts pointing to stats that were backing up posters' opinions that he was one of the best CBs in the NFL. I think he's solid, but not anywhere near the top. I think he'd make a kick arse nickle.

 

[JeffGollin]

I think Ralph Brown is our 3rd CB right now, but it's still April. People are freaking out like the season starts this weekend.

I have a few pet theories -

Our 3rd CB:
Everyone likes Antrel Rolle's playmaking ability and the Cardinal coaching and media establishment had made favorable comments about his transition to FS, but I say "Not so fast." He'd occasionally take the wrong angles and get beaten deep.

What I'm thinking is that - Rashad Johnson (whom the coaches now say they would have taken a round earlier if Cody Brown hadn't been there at #63) is supposed to be natural "center fielder" and a field-smart player.

A smart move might be to move Rolle back into a permanent slot/nickel CB role (where he previously was "lights out") and - if and when he's ready - elevate Johnson to starting FS (with Rolle the #1 backup FS and Toler or another reserve backing up Rolle in a #4 CB role).

Why the Cuts
It should free up enough cap wriggle room to get at least 2 of the 3 contract re-do's done (hopefully all three).

One side point - There's only so much money and you can't keep everybody. So you prioritize. If you believe the moves were made in order to sign 2 or 3 more core players (Boldin, Dansby, Wilson), it just came down to Hood and LaBoy being further down the food chain (& with expendible cap baggage).

Final thing about Edge, LaBoy and Hood. We wouldn't have reached the Super Bowl if we didn't have them. That said - Hood was signed as a starter and wasn't going to be a starter. LaBoy was signed to give us a dozen sacks and couldn't do so (in part because he was injured and in part because he had to share time with B-Train). Edge was signed as a feature back and (for complicated reasons having a lot to do with our run blocking and being in the wrong place at the wrong time etc.) couldn't deliver what he was being paid to deliver and eventually got cranky about how little he was being used, so it was time to cut the cord. Funny thing, but I have fonder feelings for all three of these guys than I usually do when players leave us; yet at the same time, I think the moves were ones that had to be made.

Foote
Perhaps the Cards will feel they have enough cap flexibility to add former Steeler Foote to start inside with Hayes and possibly move Dansby back outside (or move him around from play to play).

 

[SuperSpck]

I have a few pet theories -

Our 3rd CB:
Everyone likes Antrel Rolle's playmaking ability and the Cardinal coaching and media establishment had made favorable comments about his transition to FS, but I say "Not so fast." He'd occasionally take the wrong angles and get beaten deep.

What I'm thinking is that - Rashad Johnson (whom the coaches now say they would have taken a round earlier if Cody Brown hadn't been there at #63) is supposed to be natural "center fielder" and a field-smart player.

A smart move might be to move Rolle back into a permanent slot/nickel CB role (where he previously was "lights out") and - if and when he's ready - elevate Johnson to starting FS (with Rolle the #1 backup FS and Toler or another reserve backing up Rolle in a #4 CB role).

In an interview after selecting Rashod Johnson, Defensive coordinator Bill Davis said that having Johnson allowed them to put him at nickle and keep Rolle back at safety.
Davis accidentally telegraphed the cuts it seemed, and already it seems that they like Johnson more than Brown if they're going to elevate him to Nickle already.

OTA's and TC will change a lot of plans of course, but in Davis' mind this is the plan for right now.

 

[joeshmo]

I have a few pet theories -

Our 3rd CB:
Everyone likes Antrel Rolle's playmaking ability and the Cardinal coaching and media establishment had made favorable comments about his transition to FS, but I say "Not so fast." He'd occasionally take the wrong angles and get beaten deep.

What I'm thinking is that - Rashad Johnson (whom the coaches now say they would have taken a round earlier if Cody Brown hadn't been there at #63) is supposed to be natural "center fielder" and a field-smart player.

A smart move might be to move Rolle back into a permanent slot/nickel CB role (where he previously was "lights out") and - if and when he's ready - elevate Johnson to starting FS (with Rolle the #1 backup FS and Toler or another reserve backing up Rolle in a #4 CB role).

If that is the thought process, its called putting the cart before the horse. Your relying on rookies who havent even been fitted for a helmet yet. Thats the sort of reasoning that would make sense after training camp, not 4 months before it.

Why the Cuts
It should free up enough cap wriggle room to get at least 2 of the 3 contract re-do's done (hopefully all three).

Cutting just James gives us 5 mill more in cap space to work with. Cutting all three gives us 5.5 mill to work with. An extra 500K in cap space was not the reason in terms of giving us more wiggly room to get 2-3 more contracts done. Cap space was not the reason. Payroll budget maybe, but not cap space.

 

[Goldfield]

I would rather of cut Rolle start Rook Rashad Johnson @ FS and kept a cheaper contract in Hood over Rolle.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Base:
DRC
McFaddan
Wilson
Rolle

Nickel:
DRC
McFaddan
Wilson
Rolle
Johnson or Brown

Dime:
DRC
McFaddan
Wilson
Rolle
Johnson
Brown

*** Like any other group of DB's they'll be as good as the pass rush dictates

 

[WildBB]

I have a few pet theories -

Our 3rd CB:
Everyone likes Antrel Rolle's playmaking ability and the Cardinal coaching and media establishment had made favorable comments about his transition to FS, but I say "Not so fast." He'd occasionally take the wrong angles and get beaten deep.

What I'm thinking is that - Rashad Johnson (whom the coaches now say they would have taken a round earlier if Cody Brown hadn't been there at #63) is supposed to be natural "center fielder" and a field-smart player.

A smart move might be to move Rolle back into a permanent slot/nickel CB role (where he previously was "lights out") and - if and when he's ready - elevate Johnson to starting FS (with Rolle the #1 backup FS and Toler or another reserve backing up Rolle in a #4 CB role).

Why the Cuts
It should free up enough cap wriggle room to get at least 2 of the 3 contract re-do's done (hopefully all three).

One side point - There's only so much money and you can't keep everybody. So you prioritize. If you believe the moves were made in order to sign 2 or 3 more core players (Boldin, Dansby, Wilson), it just came down to Hood and LaBoy being further down the food chain (& with expendible cap baggage).

Final thing about Edge, LaBoy and Hood. We wouldn't have reached the Super Bowl if we didn't have them. That said - Hood was signed as a starter and wasn't going to be a starter. LaBoy was signed to give us a dozen sacks and couldn't do so (in part because he was injured and in part because he had to share time with B-Train). Edge was signed as a feature back and (for complicated reasons having a lot to do with our run blocking and being in the wrong place at the wrong time etc.) couldn't deliver what he was being paid to deliver and eventually got cranky about how little he was being used, so it was time to cut the cord. Funny thing, but I have fonder feelings for all three of these guys than I usually do when players leave us; yet at the same time, I think the moves were ones that had to be made.

Foote
Perhaps the Cards will feel they have enough cap flexibility to add former Steeler Foote to start inside with Hayes and possibly move Dansby back outside (or move him around from play to play).

Agree with everything here. Hopefuly something gets done on more than one contract front.

 

[82CardsGrad]

There have been many posts pointing to stats that were backing up posters' opinions that he was one of the best CBs in the NFL. I think he's solid, but not anywhere near the top. I think he'd make a kick arse nickle.

Just curious... who, aside from DRC was better at CB for the Cards last season than Hood?

 

[Mulli]

Just curious... who, aside from DRC was better at CB for the Cards last season than Hood?

McFadden can be just as good as Hood was. Probably maybe.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Just curious... who, aside from DRC was better at CB for the Cards last season than Hood?

Well, DRC excepted, given the number of passing TD's given up they all tied for last. Ergo: McFaddan & Johnson, et al

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

I suppose I could accept this if there was a significant cap savings, or we had people ready to step in that weren't drafted 2 days ago. Lets also not forget that Whiz isn't infallible, and while by far the best coach we've had since Coryell, he was still only 8-8 and 9-7. Also if we are to believe Whis has complete control over personnel, then he's responsible for the Johnson, Hood, Laboy, and Holt signings.

Of course he isnt infalliable, but we knew what we were getting when he was hired. It isnt a coincidence that Whiz has brought ex-steelers, ex-steelers coaches, and (starting this year I believe) will revamp the defense to be more in the traditonal 3-4 Steeler mold. So why then does it suprise everyone when we let Hood (money), LaBoy (Injuries), and Edge loose? Because the coaches believe they can take guys (Ralph Brown, Cody Brown) and teach them the system.

And although it may not clear a ton of space this year, that money is accelerated and off the books next year when there are a bunch of guys that need to be locked up (Dansby, Quan, Watson)

I wouldnt make too much of this other than Whiz putting more of his stamp on this team to mold it into the team he envisioned when he took the job.

Have we forgot the Cards went to the Superbowl last year?

 

[82CardsGrad]

McFadden can be just as good as Hood was. Probably maybe.

Damm I hope at minimum he's as good as Hood... But Pariah seems to be discounting Hood to a large extent. I was just curious as to where he saw Hood in the context of the team itself last season...
IMO, while Hood's performance dropped from the '07 season, I still thought he was better than average at the position and frankly, more often than not I was pleased with his performance.

But yea - McFadden BETTER be an upgrade...

 

[Evil Ash]

Hood told me this morning that he had earned a play-time incentive that would have boosted his salary by $2 million. That means he would have made $5 million in salary and his cap number would have been $5.5 million in 2009. That's too much to pay for a backup cornerback.

http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/KentSomers/52110

Well that explains why Hood was cut. $3 million for a backup is tough but liveable, $5.5 mill is WAY too much

 

[Goldfield]

They should of at the very least let McFadden & Hood battle it out in TC. We have no idea if McFadden will be as good as Hood in our system.

Everyone like to call Hood our nickle CB. But he was our #1 CB until the middle to end of last year. I think some people are to quick to forget how well he played for us most of the time.

 

[82CardsGrad]

http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/KentSomers/52110

Well that explains why Hood was cut. $3 million for a backup is tough but liveable, $5.5 mill is WAY too much

Agreed...

 

[Renz]

Agreed...

+2

If those numbers are right, it would be stupid NOT to cut Hood.

 

[Mulli]

See there is a value in remaining calm until all information comes to light.

 

[Duckjake]

Of course he isnt infalliable, but we knew what we were getting when he was hired. It isnt a coincidence that Whiz has brought ex-steelers, ex-steelers coaches, and (starting this year I believe) will revamp the defense to be more in the traditonal 3-4 Steeler mold. So why then does it suprise everyone when we let Hood (money), LaBoy (Injuries), and Edge loose? Because the coaches believe they can take guys (Ralph Brown, Cody Brown) and teach them the system.

And although it may not clear a ton of space this year, that money is accelerated and off the books next year when there are a bunch of guys that need to be locked up (Dansby, Quan, Watson)

I wouldnt make too much of this other than Whiz putting more of his stamp on this team to mold it into the team he envisioned when he took the job.

Have we forgot the Cards went to the Superbowl last year?

That is exactly why we are talking about this. We are now down 5 guys who contributed to the Super Bowl run (starting CB, starting RB, #1 or #2 OLB, starting DE, and our speed back and kick returner) and are banking on very young or new guys to replace them.

It is a risk. Probably a well calculated one based on Whisenhunt's results to date. But anytime a team takes a risk like this it is going to foster discussion, wonderment, and some dissent.

 

[Renz]

That is exactly why we are talking about this. We are now down 5 guys who contributed to the Super Bowl run (starting CB, starting RB, #1 or #2 OLB, starting DE, and our speed back and kick returner) and are banking on very young or new guys to replace them.

It is a risk. Probably a well calculated one based on Whisenhunt's results to date. But anytime a team takes a risk like this it is going to foster discussion, wonderment, and some dissent.

Why are those players gone? Because we are trying to upgrade those positions. You know, get better!

The only player we've lost this offseason that we might miss is Antonio Smith, IMO, and he wasn't actually a difference maker.

 

[joeshmo]

http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/KentSomers/52110

Well that explains why Hood was cut. $3 million for a backup is tough but liveable, $5.5 mill is WAY too much

So they did to Hood(cut him before his incentive was due) what they should have done to Laboy a month ago when he got his 1.5 roster bonus.

By the way the cap spreadsheet is still correct because Hood wasnt due the extra 2 mill until May 1st according to my source.

 

[WildBB]

That is exactly why we are talking about this. We are now down 5 guys who contributed to the Super Bowl run (starting CB, starting RB, #1 or #2 OLB, starting DE, and our speed back and kick returner) and are banking on very young or new guys to replace them.

It is a risk. Probably a well calculated one based on Whisenhunt's results to date. But anytime a team takes a risk like this it is going to foster discussion, wonderment, and some dissent.

You add Anquan Boldins name to those and we have a big reason for concern. Now I'm not too worried about our personell decisions.

 

[Mulli]

You add Anquan Boldins name to those and we have a big reason for concern. Now I'm not too worried about our personell decisions.

good point

 

[Renz]

So they did to Hood(cut him before his incentive was due) what they should have done to Laboy a month ago when he got his 1.5 roster bonus.

By the way the cap spreadsheet is still correct because Hood wasnt due the extra 2 mill until May 1st according to my source.

Why would one player get a roster bonus and not another? Wouldn't they all be due at the same time?

 

[joeshmo]

Why would one player get a roster bonus and not another? Wouldn't they all be due at the same time?

Depends on what is written into the contract. An agent worth his salt will get the roster bonus due to his player before free agency starts, while a bad one will get you one after free agency starts or after the draft.

But Hood wasnt going to get a bonus his base salary was going to raise due to an incentive/escalator clause. It was going to go from 3 mill to 5 mill. We technically could have cut him afterwards and still got all 5 mill back because it was his base salary and not a bonus, but why delay the inevitable.