Edge

[nashman]

Nah not memorized just common sense, which alot of posters on here seem to be lacking lately. But not you two 82 and Mulli you always add such insightful, intelligent posts.

 

[Mulli]

Insightful posts as usual 82 and Mulli, way to add to the thread!

 

[Mitch]

nash: hopefully Edge runs as hard and fast the rest of the way as he did versus Seattle. The team needs to rely on its veterans as it heads into the playoffs, and Edge is one of the only players on the team with playoff experience. The only worry I have is that he will cough up another fumble at a terrible time like he did at Carolina and like he did in the MNF Bears' debacle.

The one part of your weekly Edge argument that I think you may want to reconsider is...first, saying the Cards went into the tank right after Edge was benched, when, in fact, the Cardinals ran off the most important three game winning streak of its tenure in Arizona (2 of those games on the road, as well)...then, when this was pointed out to you, you basically downplayed the streak by saying that the wins were against, to use your words, "pathetic" teams.

Sure, the NFC West is down this year and has been for a while...but it wasn't so long ago that the Cardinals could be considered "pathetic." And we saw the last few weeks that this year's team can also look pathetic when it is not motivated and/or focussed.

Which makes the three game winning streak all the more meaningful in retrospect...and...if you go back and look at the context of each of these three games it makes the wins even more impressive:

(1) @ STL. The Rams were playing so well then that some pundits were predicting they would overtake the Cardinals for the NFC West title. They had beaten Washington at Washington (something the Cardinals couldn't do and haven't been able to do), they dominated Dallas at home and then they played the Patriots to the wire at New England.

Not only did the Cardinals win this key game before a fired up Rams' stadium...they won the game convincingly and took all the wind out of the Rams' sails...and Hightower was one of the stars of that game.

(2) Home versus SF on MNF. Battling the MNF jinx was one thing, but then a rejuvenated 49ers team coming off a bye week and the motivational head coaching switch from Mike Nolan to Mike Singletary...and seeing as the Cardinal/49er games are seemingly always close...this was a huge win especially in light of the way the game ended on the one inch line...with an unprecedented goal-line stand.

(3) @ SEA. When have the Cardinals ever been able to win there? And Matt Hasselbeck was back in the lineup. There was every reason to beleive that the Seahawks were more desperate to win this game than the Cardinals...and they played hard and tough...but the Cardinals prevailed, and with it put themselves in the driver's seat to win their first NFC West title.

To me, in light of the contexts, this was the most impressive three game winning streak in over 35 years. You can never take division opponents for granted...and since when could we ever take Cardinals' wins for granted?

 

[nashman]

Mitch the 3 game winning streak was important but fact is it was against BAD teams, and TH played terrible in 2 out of the 3. We were lucky to win the SF game period. My point is simply that the team that started the season and was 4 and 2 looked totally different than the team with TH starting and getting blown out. Shoot even the Jets game the offense was able to come back and put up a bunch of points. The team just looks and is different with Edge in at RB. And enough with the fumble, it happens and not like Edge coughs up the ball all the time, geesh people act like he is a turnover machine he has 2 fumbles, as does TH this season.

 

[Totally_Red]

nash: hopefully Edge runs as hard and fast the rest of the way as he did versus Seattle. The team needs to rely on its veterans as it heads into the playoffs, and Edge is one of the only players on the team with playoff experience. The only worry I have is that he will cough up another fumble at a terrible time like he did at Carolina and like he did in the MNF Bears' debacle.

The one part of your weekly Edge argument that I think you may want to reconsider is...first, saying the Cards went into the tank right after Edge was benched, when, in fact, the Cardinals ran off the most important three game winning streak of its tenure in Arizona (2 of those games on the road, as well)...then, when this was pointed out to you, you basically downplayed the streak by saying that the wins were against, to use your words, "pathetic" teams.

Sure, the NFC West is down this year and has been for a while...but it wasn't so long ago that the Cardinals could be considered "pathetic." And we saw the last few weeks that this year's team can also look pathetic when it is not motivated and/or focussed.

Which makes the three game winning streak all the more meaningful in retrospect...and...if you go back and look at the context of each of these three games it makes the wins even more impressive:

(1) @ STL. The Rams were playing so well then that some pundits were predicting they would overtake the Cardinals for the NFC West title. They had beaten Washington at Washington (something the Cardinals couldn't do and haven't been able to do), they dominated Dallas at home and then they played the Patriots to the wire at New England.

Not only did the Cardinals win this key game before a fired up Rams' stadium...they won the game convincingly and took all the wind out of the Rams' sails...and Hightower was one of the stars of that game.

(2) Home versus SF on MNF. Battling the MNF jinx was one thing, but then a rejuvenated 49ers team coming off a bye week and the motivational head coaching switch from Mike Nolan to Mike Singletary...and seeing as the Cardinal/49er games are seemingly always close...this was a huge win especially in light of the way the game ended on the one inch line...with an unprecedented goal-line stand.

(3) @ SEA. When have the Cardinals ever been able to win there? And Matt Hasselbeck was back in the lineup. There was every reason to beleive that the Seahawks were more desperate to win this game than the Cardinals...and they played hard and tough...but the Cardinals prevailed, and with it put themselves in the driver's seat to win their first NFC West title.

To me, in light of the contexts, this was the most impressive three game winning streak in over 35 years. You can never take division opponents for granted...and since when could we ever take Cardinals' wins for granted?

In retrospect, that win over the Niners seemed a lot better than it did at the time. The Niners have really come on strong, I mean they dominated the Dolphins in Miami but couldn't punch the ball into the endzone. If I recall, they played that game without Frank Gore. No doubt the Cardinals were flat in that game, but they had enough to beat what turned out to be a surging team.

 

[Mitch]

Mitch the 3 game winning streak was important but fact is it was against BAD teams, and TH played terrible in 2 out of the 3. We were lucky to win the SF game period. My point is simply that the team that started the season and was 4 and 2 looked totally different than the team with TH starting and getting blown out. Shoot even the Jets game the offense was able to come back and put up a bunch of points. The team just looks and is different with Edge in at RB. And enough with the fumble, it happens and not like Edge coughs up the ball all the time, geesh people act like he is a turnover machine he has 2 fumbles, as does TH this season.

I guess you didn't get the gist of my post, nash. Since when have the Cards been so good they could automatically beat bad teams? And in this division the difference talent-wise between all four teams is not very significant at all. I still think you are taking way too much for granted here.

For the record, TH wasn't terrible in 2 out of the 3 games...the Cardinals were passing the ball all over the lot as they always do with Warner at QB and the WR Magi of #11, #81 and #15.

The Cardinals played to their strengths in those games...which at that time wasn't plunging Edge into the line for 3 yard gains.

 

[nashman]

Balanced attack is winning formula not throwing the ball all over the lot, I will leave it at that. Good teams have balance not one dimensional easily stopped offenses.

 

[Mitch]

Balanced attack is winning formula not throwing the ball all over the lot, I will leave it at that. Good teams have balance not one dimensional easily stopped offenses.

Nash: c'mon man you have to have better arguments than this...at which point this year has the Cardinals' "one-dimensional offense" been "easy to stop?" The offense is 2nd in the NFC in yards per game and also 2nd in the NFC in points per game @ 26.7 (which behind SD and NO is 3rd in the NFL).

No matter how a team does it, to win means scoring more points than the opponent. And the Cardinals are pretty darned good at putting up points (427 this year---a franchise record)...what they really need more of is sound, fundamental tackling and defensive stops.

At this point in the year, Nash, it would be foolish of the Cardinals to force the running game just for the sake of balance. One coaching mantra that is pretty wise is: "do what you do best."

You'd have a better case if the Cardinals were having trouble sustaining drives...but their short passing game is, IMO, even better than a solid running attack.

 

[nashman]

Mitch you may want to look at the NE, Minnesota game as perfect examples of NOT sustaining drives and they stopped our O. Any team with a solid D is going to be able to stop a one dimensional team, and by the way we will be seeing better D's in the playoffs. We have to be able to exploit a D if they decide to drop into heavy pass coverage, and also to take some of the pressure off Warner. It was pretty clear how much better Warner plays with a running game.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

In retrospect, that win over the Niners seemed a lot better than it did at the time. The Niners have really come on strong, I mean they dominated the Dolphins in Miami but couldn't punch the ball into the endzone. If I recall, they played that game without Frank Gore. No doubt the Cardinals were flat in that game, but they had enough to beat what turned out to be a surging team.

I said this right after the game and was laughed at. Somone even had a post where he countered my prediciton that SF would finish strong by saying they would be piss poor as usual and that we sucked because we got by the skin of our teeth.

Under Singletary (and with Hill under center) they were/are a completely different team

 

[Arizona's Finest]

And if I had better computer access I would have started this thread but lets call a spade a spade.

Nashman was right. His arguments, tone of posts, and name calling all sucked - but in the end he was right.

Edge should have been the guy all along and Wiz overreacted to that fumble against Carolina and Edges bad attitude. However maybe the benching is what led to this better running by Edge which has actually taken place the last three games and not just Sunday. It's kind of a chicken or the egg.

Getting down on TH is pretty ridiculous though. And seriously comparing him to Shipp should get your board membership taken away.

He is a rookie 5th round pick and has 10 TD's. He just should have been kept in the short yardage role and allowed to develop.

 

[Mulli]

And if I had better computer access I would have started this thread but lets call a spade a spade.

Nashman was right. His arguments, tone of posts, and name calling all sucked - but in the end he was right.

Edge should have been the guy all along and Wiz overreacted to that fumble against Carolina and Edges bad attitude. However maybe the benching is what led to this better running by Edge which has actually taken place the last three games and not just Sunday. It's kind of a chicken or the egg.

Getting down on TH is pretty ridiculous though. And seriously comparing him to Shipp should get your board membership taken away.

He is a rookie 5th round pick and has 10 TD's. He just should have been kept in the short yardage role and allowed to develop.

Yep.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Edge had a great game yesterday. That is the best he has looked in AZ.

As for next season, I still think we need two backs, and to run a two back system.

I don't think an "every down back" fits into the system. Yet, I don't think we have either of the two backs for the system. JJ might be a good speed guy, but he is incosistant. TH is not big enough to be a pure power back.

Still for this year, Edge has to be our man for the playoffs.

 

[nashman]

^yep except Nashmans posts and arguments were solid, the tone was understandably on Edge so to speak most of the time, and name calling? I didn't call anyone names unless they attacked me as usual. But the points about Wiz overreacting and Edge should have been the guy are spot on! Don't make to much out of 10 TD's they could have just as easily been Edges' or JJ's as most of them were all a couple yards away. I don't think TH is a bust and have said all along I just think he is a short yardage/goalline back, the comparison to Shipp is not that far off both lack vision and are just straight ahead short yardage backs.

 

[DevonCardsFan]

I think Edge is cool as hell, but from his qoutes I have read, This guy has a big ego and stats matter a ton to the guy. I think Edge is not happy, if the Cards win and he has 30 yards rushing on the day. Benching Edge I think refueled this Dudes fire, he basically is playing to show he still has it and is worth starting Spot somewhere in the NFL. I want to see a heavy dose of Edge saturday, to keep the 3rds manageble and the defense honest on the 3rd and 3's. Tim Hightower has shown, he is great for 3rd and short and in Goalline thats when he should be on the field. Bring JJ in as a change of back pace, JJ been playing good and I like when he comes in. But Edge also needs to play a ton, because he is a much better blocker then Tim.

Compared to when hightower played and when Edge play, I feel alot safer having the vet in there blocking for Kurt.

 

[Avondale Red Rage]

For us to be successful now (playoff W's) Edge needs to get on his horse. He has never really impressed me up until Sunday. I don't care what defense was on the field you could see he was acting like the hall of famer he wants to be.

With the way JJ has been running lately and Edge getting nasty, we may have the two-back short term burst we need to be successful.

 

[jstadvl]

Think people. Perhaps Whiz is better, and smarter than we think. Look at how he used the psych and rest points of coaching. Psych-just enuf to piss someone off to the "i'll show you" point. Then, didn't Edge look TOO fresh? Just READY for the playoffs.
Also, notice how vanilla we seemed the three prior games? One game before the playoffs and we just happen to show a bit more?AND, imho, I don't think we've seen it all yet.I think we see some extraordinary stuff against the Falcan'ts.

 

[jstadvl]

AND, I gotta agree with nash on one point. Balance the attack, stay with the run as much as possible. That means, if we're not down by 21 in the end of the third, keep running and throwing. Yes, our passing game IS our strength. But, when it's all we do, (shotgun) it's a detriment to our whole system, and not, imho, what Whiz wants.
Haley has to mix it up.

 

[nashman]

I think your kidding yourself if you think Whiz somehow had this as his masterplan. He made a mistake midseason and now hoas corrected it one can only hope it all works out for us.

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

We get it Nash... you're smarter than Dungy and Whis.. we get it!

 

[nashman]

Why do you feel the need to chime in? Do YOU think it was part of Whizs' plan? I don't think so, how is that saying I am smarter than Dungy or Whis? Some people just feel the need to be jerks on this board I get it so have a nice day SoCal!

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

You have been called a jerk by several people... Me? just you as far as I know.

 

[jstadvl]

OK, I've no idea where all the personal crap came from, but, normally-both sides, or eight sides in this case, have some thing to do with it.
Just open up a bit Nash, All of a usdden we're not blitzing the same, not showing different packages from the same look, things like that. The offense is SO watered down, there's no rythmn or life at all. Edge pouts, we see J.J. get a chance at doing a "Bush style" running back. Very well I might add. We get to see Hightower show some flashes, but obviously isn't a top dog yet. We see Edge get rested, angry, and show-every time he goes over 100yds. we win. When at the same time, everyone is saying -he's lost it, he's out etc.
Now comes the "must dominate" game, the warm up game for the playoffs, and we come out as blood thirsty as ever.
Now, I'm not saying it was a type of diabolical plan, but Whiz is already saying he might do exactly the opposite, of his normal tendencies, because he's known by the other team's staff. You don't think, maybe, just maybe, he may have gotten a bit of an experimental itch after winning the division?
AND, if what your saying, about his "mistake" is true, then we've got a coach that ponies up to his errors. That's a good thing.

 

[gohard83]

Darren Sproles will be available. He's a very good change of pace guy for either TH or Edge.

 

[jstadvl]

HMMM. I kinda like Sproles. The thing to keep watching, IMHO, is how the front office handles everything. They came very close to putting themselves in a "Ravens" F.A. fiasco. They need to start serious negotiations with some of our own, including Warner, as soon as we're done, in the playoffs. (S.B.?). Then start looking to fill the most important holes. D- Nose tackle, a stuffer, LB, Suggs anyone, another shut down corner.
Then the O. But, IMO, the biggest need is coaching special teams.