Edwin Jackson throws ugly No-No

[Arizona's Finest]

8 walks and 149 pitches???

I'll take it. Congrats Edwin and Dbacks!

 

[bankybruce]

Even though the bullpen did not enter the game, I am surprised they did not find a way to blow the game.

 

[azsportsfan01]

Congrats to Edwin. Things like this can turn a season around. Players start having fun and playing loose. Not saying it will happen but it should be interesting to see how we come out for tomorrow's game.

 

[az jam]

Congrats to Edwin.

 

[Dback Jon]

Great job!!

 

[MigratingOsprey]

definitely a great effort - not quite as wild as AJ Burnetts no-no, but a good showing indeed

 

[TJ]

In a season where there has not been much to cheer about, this was a shot in the arm for us fans and hopefully the team.

Congrats EJ! Glad to have you on the team.

 

[Nasser22]

I hate that I always stick it through until the end on the heartbreakers and then miss these fantastic performances. Just shows you can't miss a game...not even one of the 162. Darn work.... Congrats Edwin! Keep it up; we'll probably need 149 pitches from you again.

 

[RichDawg]

Wow, just heard about this on the radio. I am so proud of EJ & the rest of the 'Backs. I remember tuning into RJ's perfect game against Atlanta as I was getting home from work, so not too many people were aware of that game, either.

So it took 149 pitches to accomplish this feat. Yeah, so effin what? Neither you, I, or Edwin Jackson owe anyone an apology for that. In fact, the other day, the blowhard host for the D-Backs post game show (AKA The Rhoda Hour) agreed with AJ Hinch for pulling Dan Haren after 110 pitches against the Yankees, in order to preserve his trade value. Of course, our bullpen promptly gave up 6 runs to put the game out of reach. Huh???

Anyways, I'm glad for a bright spot in a season full of negatives.

 

[Forrestham]

This proves a point about a theory I have. The worst thing to happen to baseball in this era is the pitch count. I remember as a kid pitches commonly threw complete games. Pitchers are too pampered. Instead of seeing a better starting pitcher we see a mediocre ot terrible reliever finish games. Congratulations to Edwin.

 

[splitsecond]

This is great, but also means hinch stays around longer.

 

[TJ]

This proves a point about a theory I have. The worst thing to happen to baseball in this era is the pitch count. I remember as a kid pitches commonly threw complete games. Pitchers are too pampered. Instead of seeing a better starting pitcher we see a mediocre ot terrible reliever finish games. Congratulations to Edwin.

100% agree

30 or so years ago, pitchers would throw 10 complete games/season and the team would only have a 4 man rotation. 125+ pitches was not taboo back then. In addition to the pitch count, the establishment of the "save" and "hold" stats really hampered the impact of a starter.

For pitchers who make millions/year and play once every 5 days, they need to be working harder IMO.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

This proves a point about a theory I have. The worst thing to happen to baseball in this era is the pitch count. I remember as a kid pitchers commonly threw complete games. Pitchers are too pampered. Instead of seeing a better starting pitcher we see a mediocre or terrible reliever finish games. Congratulations to Edwin.

I agree. As soon as the bullpen exposed itself this season I would have gone old school and had all of the starters pitch longer...even complete games. It is ridiculous how many games we have lost after great starting pitching...

 

[azsportsfan01]

100% agree

30 or so years ago, pitchers would throw 10 complete games/season and the team would only have a 4 man rotation. 125+ pitches was not taboo back then. In addition to the pitch count, the establishment of the "save" and "hold" stats really hampered the impact of a starter.

For pitchers who make millions/year and play once every 5 days, they need to be working harder IMO.

The biggest problem isn't really pitch counts, it is how kids today are being trained. Pitchers need to be throwing long distances, like 200 to 300 feet. You need to stregthen up the arm which is no longer happeninging. Nolan Ryan is trying to change the ways out in Texas which is just fantastic to see. Hopefully he can change every team.

 

[Bucaguy]

Great job EJ... Hopefully this will put some fire in the team

 

[devilalum]

This article gives some insight into how Hinch thinks and his inexperience.

Edwin Jackson's no-no
If you had told D-backs manager A.J. Hinch on Friday that by the end of the day, his starting pitcher would throw 149 pitches, "I would have bet my life savings against that," Hinch said Saturday.

"I was very focused on the history. This was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity."

Hinch's decision really came down to a conversation with Jackson and Arizona pitching coach Mel Stottlemyre Jr. after the seventh inning. Jackson's pitch count was at 117, and Hinch asked Jackson and Stottlemyre to go out of the dugout so that the three of them could talk about the situation out of sight of the cameras.

Jackson argued to stay in the game, to continue on. "[Beep] it, I'm going out there until I give up a hit or the game is in jeopardy," Jackson said. And Hinch stressed as they talked that this wasn't only about a no-hitter but also about trying to win the game. And so Hinch had his mind made up that the instant Jackson allowed a hit, he'd pull him immediately. Yet, he wanted to give him the opportunity to finish the no-hitter.


Getty Images
A.J. Hinch had some serious discussions to make during Edwin Jackson's no-no, and he knew that.
"Once I sent him out for the eighth inning, I was pretty much committed to riding out" the no-hit bid, Hinch said.

The D-backs' manager also believes that there is a lot about Jackson that makes him a candidate to throw a lot of pitches: He has a really clean arm and a clean delivery, and he's very athletic.

"Last year, when I first got this job, I was zeroed in on this 100 to 105 pitch count, almost to a fault," Hinch said. This year, Hinch has tried to adjust that, looking to get pitchers to aim for 115-pitch outings, because that number will get them an extra inning of work.

But Hinch is also aware of the inherent pressures that weigh on a manager as he assesses pitch counts and the possible risk of leaving pitchers in the game too long. "What gets instilled in the managers is how difficult it is to replace pitching," Hinch said. "With expansion, with the dilution of pitching, it might be a cliff dive to the next wave of pitching available to you."

Because of that, managers routinely are conservative in protecting their pitchers. As Friday's game progressed, however, standard operating procedure went out the window. As that game moved into the last innings, Hinch and Stottlemyre talked about how the Diamondbacks have an off day coming up, how they could bump back Jackson's next start to give him some extra rest in the aftermath of his monumental effort.

"It was a little gut-wrenching," said Hinch, who is well aware of the vortex he stepped into with his decision.

"If I hadn't sent him out for the eighth inning, I'd be the villain, the most hated man in baseball. If he comes up [hurt] in the next month, I'm going to get crushed."

The Diamondbacks decided to push back Jackson's next start to give him some extra rest.

 

[MigratingOsprey]

The biggest problem isn't really pitch counts, it is how kids today are being trained. Pitchers need to be throwing long distances, like 200 to 300 feet. You need to stregthen up the arm which is no longer happeninging. Nolan Ryan is trying to change the ways out in Texas which is just fantastic to see. Hopefully he can change every team.

I agree - I think the pitch counts are more of a symptom than the disease

kids are putting more and more stress on their arms at younger ages for a longer duration

you now have kids pitching year around, learning more taxing pitches at younger ages, etc

also, hitting has become so advanced that pitchers need to have multiple pitches that they can throw effectively from a consistent motion and arm slot (as to not tip your pitches) .... all of this adds more and more stress

 

[DWKB]

I agree - I think the pitch counts are more of a symptom than the disease

kids are putting more and more stress on their arms at younger ages for a longer duration

you now have kids pitching year around, learning more taxing pitches at younger ages, etc

also, hitting has become so advanced that pitchers need to have multiple pitches that they can throw effectively from a consistent motion and arm slot (as to not tip your pitches) .... all of this adds more and more stress

This is a great post. Pitching today is much more stressful on a per pitch basis than anytime in baseball history as the game has continually progressed from a "batter vs defense" to a "batter vs pitcher" focus.

It would be insane to expect a SP to throw the amount of IP and starts that SP in the past did. It's also rather misguided IMO to think that RP strategy is a faulty one over leaving SP in the game on any macro level.

 

[DWKB]

I agree. As soon as the bullpen exposed itself this season I would have gone old school and had all of the starters pitch longer...even complete games. It is ridiculous how many games we have lost after great starting pitching...

Our SPs are some of the most taxed SP in the league this year and they're falling apart because of it.

 

[BC867]

It is now four weeks after the no-hitter. I have been a fan of Edwin Jackson ever since he arrived.

But, man, when I saw him make back-to-back throwing errors on bunts tonight against the Giants, I have to wonder.

He was a position player when he was younger, if I remember right.

He is, except for Upton and perhaps Young, the most athletic player on the team.

But he can't throw out two runners from the infield?

That's lack of attitude or confidence. Nothing else. He needs a checkup from the neck up.

And that would be the main reason for not getting rid of Haren at this time.