Elton Brand Ruptures Achilles

[Mainstreet]

i don't think we'd make that move - otherwise we would have just kept KT. That's why I think a deal would probably have to involve Banks and that pick. I'd like to keep the ATL pick as well, and I wish we had some first rounders to blow, but we don't and I don't know if the Clippers wouldjust take a straight up TT for Banks deal, but I do know that TT is probably gonna be out there for someone to take now. The Clippers are in complete crap mode now and he is useless for a team that has no shot, and likely has no shot for the next couple years.

I think we basically agree. After the loss of KT, I was hoping the Suns could add a player like TT that would fit their running style. Apparently KT suddenly did not fit the Suns style (heavy dose of sarcasm here). Anyway I was wanting the Suns to do a semi-make-up-call by adding a cheaper big like TT. Moving Banks would be a plus if it could be done.

Actually I'm growing tired of trying to figure out how the Suns think and I'm beginning to think they are waiting for another Jumaine Jones type signing and really do not have any firm plans for adding a big that can play unless they get lucky.

 

[Cheesebeef]

And what happens when Thomas shows up overweight like last year? Fact is this has always been Thomas' M.O. until he resurrected his career in a few short months with the Suns.

first, if he shows up overweight at the beginning of the year (which I don't remember hearing about and I live in LA), then he's probably up and down for the first couple months, but by the end of the season, he's a valuable big off the bench, or in the starting lineup if there's injuries, just like he was for the Clippers down the stretch where he and Maggette turned their games on, just like he was with us and just like he's been for every team he's been on once they've gotten to the playoffs, where his game ALWAYS is raised.

TT gets a bad rap IMO not because of his play, but because of the contract someone foolishly bestowed upon him back in the day. People want to say that he got his contract and then never did anything else, but the truth of the matter is after he got his deal, his stats actually went UP. They just didn't match what people expected from a contract like his, but that ain't his fault. It's the fault of the idiots who signed him to it.

 

[CaptainInsano]

just like he was for the Clippers down the stretch where he and Maggette turned their games on, just like he was with us and just like he's been for every team he's been on once they've gotten to the playoffs, where his game ALWAYS is raised.

Damn right, it is hard to find players like Tim that seem to relish the aura of the playoffs, just ask marion.

And I am pretty sure I have said it before, but last year I watched a decent amount of clippers games (around 11 or 12) and in 2 of those one Tim was doing really damn good, and in another he single handedly won the clips the game with some ridiculous hot shooting. It was AWESOME.

 

[SunsTzu]

first, if he shows up overweight at the beginning of the year (which I don't remember hearing about and I live in LA),

He wasn't really overwieght but he missed time in training camp and preseason due to injury thus causing him to not be in game shape to start the season. And I agree TT's rap comes mainly from a contract he was give(though I doubt anyone in their right mind would turn down 100mil if offered) and partly due to his playoff antics(Fugazy and blowing kisses).

 

[Cheesebeef]

I also read on another rabid Suns board (not ESPN board) that Gambo said the Suns were willing to wait on PJ Brown until November 1st if need be.

Did anyone actually here this?

I really hope that's a) not the case or b) Brown makes his mind up a hell of a lot earlier than that, be it with us, or someone else. That would be an incredibly reactive way to go about building our team - more a move I would expect from a Cardinals FO than a Suns FO.

 

[Cheesebeef]

He wasn't realy overwieght but he missed time in training camp and preseason due to injury. And I agree TT's rap comes mainly from a contract he was give(though I doubt anyone in their right mind would turn down 100mil if offered) and partly due to his playoff antics(Fugazy and blowing kisses).

I know he missed time due to injury, but no one was talking about him being overweight in LA to my recollection.

 

[Cheesebeef]

They'd still be paying about 1/2 of what KT would have cost and TT would play more than KT.

hey, I'd be ALL for that, but I think the bottom line wouldn't allow it to happen. that's why I made the other suggestion. I think it's okay to be short-sighted when we're as close as we are and there's a piece out there that fits a glaring need to a relative T, while also ridding ourselves of Banks.

 

[SunsTzu]

I know he missed time due to injury, but no one was talking about him being overweight in LA to my recollection.

Yeah, I certainly didn't see him look overwieght. He was working out all his time off during the '05-'06 season and I don't recall ever hearing his conditioning being a problem.

 

[CaptainInsano]

He wasn't really overwieght but he missed time in training camp and preseason due to injury thus causing him to not be in game shape to start the season. And I agree TT's rap comes mainly from a contract he was give(though I doubt anyone in their right mind would turn down 100mil if offered) and partly due to his playoff antics(Fugazy and blowing kisses).

His playoff antics were great, I didn't find them embarrasing and I was at a bar and I remember almost all the guys watching (most not even suns fans in the area I was in) laughing their asses off.

Thing is they are just what the suns need. It was great seeing that vs dallas but imagine that vs the spurs?! Pure heaven.

 

[Mainstreet]

Damn right, it is hard to find players like Tim that seem to relish the aura of the playoffs, just ask marion.

And I am pretty sure I have said it before, but last year I watched a decent amount of clippers games (around 11 or 12) and in 2 of those one Tim was doing really damn good, and in another he single handedly won the clips the game with some ridiculous hot shooting. It was AWESOME.

IMO, signing Banks instead of TT was quite foolish at the time and seems foolish now. What were the Suns thinking? I lay this in the lap of Griffin while D'Antoni napped

 

[SunsTzu]

hey, I'd be ALL for that, but I think the bottom line wouldn't allow it to happen. that's why I made the other suggestion. I think it's okay to be short-sighted when we're as close as we are and there's a piece out there that fits a glaring need to a relative T, while also ridding ourselves of Banks.

I just don't see TT as the final piece in making the Suns champions. And if they do a move like that and fail to win it all they pretty much have to blow up the team imo.

 

[CaptainInsano]

IMO, signing Banks instead of TT was quite foolish at the time and seems foolish now. What were the Suns thinking? I lay this in the lap of Griffin while D'Antoni napped

I hate looking at it that way. You know why?

Because I have to control the urge to vomit from disgust, everytime.

 

[CaptainInsano]

I just don't see TT as the final piece in making the Suns champions. And if they do a move like that and fail to win it all they pretty much have to blow up the team imo.

Tim Thomas was such a great freakin shooter man, remember the playoffs? We would have been sunk vs the lakers without his shooting. Now imagine him with Amare on the inside and hill/barbs doing the slashing?

That is a thing of offensive beauty. Screw the inside defensive presence when we are that dangerous.

 

[SunsTzu]

His playoff antics were great, I didn't find them embarrasing and I was at a bar and I remember almost all the guys watching (most not even suns fans in the area I was in) laughing their asses off.

Thing is they are just what the suns need. It was great seeing that vs dallas but imagine that vs the spurs?! Pure heaven.

Didn't bother me either and didn't even before he was on the Suns making those comments about KMart. I'm just saying it plays a part in his bad rap.

 

[Mainstreet]

I just don't see TT as the final piece in making the Suns champions. And if they do a move like that and fail to win it all they pretty much have to blow up the team imo.

I think the Suns plan to rebuild this team primarily through FA (e.g. Nash) or possible trades. It's pretty obvious the Suns do not value draft picks. I see this happening when Marion leaves.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I just don't see TT as the final piece in making the Suns champions. And if they do a move like that and fail to win it all they pretty much have to blow up the team imo.

i think he gives us a much better shot and if they do nothing (which is what it looks like right now), we ain't gonna be champions and they're gonna blow it up anyway. And personally, I have no faith that this FO/Coaching staff will be able to put together another era like this once Nash leaves, so I'm all for mortgaging the future for a move that puts us that much closer to win that title.

I do think that TT as an 8th man takes a team that is likely the third best team in the league and vaults us over Dallas and SA, as well as boosts our depth on a team that seems unbelievably susceptible to injuries.

 

[Gaddabout]

TT gets a bad rap IMO not because of his play, but because of the contract someone foolishly bestowed upon him back in the day. People want to say that he got his contract and then never did anything else, but the truth of the matter is after he got his deal, his stats actually went UP. They just didn't match what people expected from a contract like his, but that ain't his fault. It's the fault of the idiots who signed him to it.

I'd rather have Thomas than Banks for the price, but no way would I give up the Atl pick to take a chance on Thomas being motivated. I think his reputation becomes a factor when you start laying out that pick. I'd much rather take a chance on getting a productive player at #14 on a rookie salary than be saddled with Thomas' salary if he doesn't pan out.

 

[SunsTzu]

I think the Suns plan to rebuild this team primarily through FA (e.g. Nash) or possible trades. It's pretty obvious the Suns do not value draft picks. I see this happening when Marion leaves.

Ah yes, the Kevin McHale approach to building a team.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I also think this team still misses a bit of the swagger/douchebaggity that TT brought to the team. And while he's a really mediocre defender (and that's being generous), he ain't afraid to step up and put someone on their ass if they come into the lane, which has shown to be the way to knock Parker off his game.

This team just seems too damn "sweet" to win a title IMO. You need more a-holes - we've got Raja, but we need a couple more. You know what they say about nice guys...

 

[SunsTzu]

i think he gives us a much better shot and if they do nothing (which is what it looks like right now), we ain't gonna be champions and they're gonna blow it up anyway. And personally, I have no faith that this FO/Coaching staff will be able to put together another era like this once Nash leaves, so I'm all for mortgaging the future for a move that puts us that much closer to win that title.

I do think that TT as an 8th man takes a team that is likely the third best team in the league and vaults us over Dallas and SA, as well as boosts our depth on a team that seems unbelievably susceptible to injuries.

I don't necessarily disagree with what you're saying, but I think it is a stupid way to run a team. I'm pretty much resigned to the fact the current team isn't likey to win it barring a Heatesque lucky playoff run.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'd rather have Thomas than Banks for the price, but no way would I give up the Atl pick to take a chance on Thomas being motivated. I think his reputation becomes a factor when you start laying out that pick. I'd much rather take a chance on getting a productive player at #14 on a rookie salary than be saddled with Thomas' salary if he doesn't pan out.

where has he not panned out though? Everywhere he's gone the guy has been slammed not because of his play, but because his play doesn't match the contract that he wasn't worth when he signed in the first place. Again, all of his numbers went up after he signed his big deal and his game is always raised in the playoffs, no matter how good or mediocre a team he's playing on. Put him on a good team or a team that's actually playing well and he's an incredibly valuable/flexible asset to have.

 

[Mainstreet]

The Suns effort to legitimately resign TT was pure spin. The Suns finally get a big man in TT that can play all three front line positions and we let him go to sign Banks. Sick, sick, sick.

 

[SunsTzu]

Again, all of his numbers went up after he signed his big deal and his game is always raised in the playoffs, no matter how good or mediocre a team he's playing on.

This is how he became overpaid in the first place.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I don't necessarily disagree with what you're saying, but I think it is a stupid way to run a team. I'm pretty much resigned to the fact the current team isn't likey to win it barring a Heatesque lucky playoff run.

okay, agree to disagree, kinda. i get what you're saying as well and ultimately I think we've just painted ourselves into a corner where we're gonna be like the pre-Barkley Suns unless we take a risk on something.

 

[Cheesebeef]

This is how he became overpaid in the first place.

true, but still not his fault though. I mean even those playoff numbers weren't so good that it warranted a MAX deal. I mean, at the time, I remember everyone in the NBA thinking that deal was insane.