Elysium

[Chaplin]

Ok screw it.

You are such an arrogant pompous ass when it comes to movies it's not even funny. You think you are so much better than everyone else including guys like chap and that's hard to do! You act as though because you've had some 50 dollar bit parts In a few commercials that you are the end all be all when it comes to movies and knowing what's going on, what was intended, knowing the exact message some writer you've never met or even talked to was trying to portray etc.. going on etc....

I'm surprised with how far that stick is shoved that you can enjoy any movie when you watch one. It really baffles me actually. Gauging the other responses I'm quite clearly sure I'm not the only one that feels this way. Sorry mods but it had to be said!

What the...? Is that payback for all the Adam Sandler jokes??

 

[Stout]

If I get around to watching this you can bet I'll keep my mouth shut about it. I don't want to be one of those poor souls that were too stupid to understand how brilliant this movie was.

Steve

I wasn't trying to give the connotation that if you didn't think it was brilliant you were stupid. I should have clarified that, so I'll apologize for that part of my message.

As for the rest, well, nobody in this thread has managed to plumb the depths of it yet, so no apologies for saying everyone missed the point.

All I missed was the fact that the citizens of Elysium could have provided medical attention to their fellow man all along. They could have send robot doctors down to help. They had no limitations to delivering care, as the ending showed us, they simply chose not to help. It wasn't about a strain on resources. It wasn't about a conscious effort to address the overpopulation issue. It was just spiteful. There were no layers, just sloppy storytelling.

So yeah, he stuck it to the man in the end. Sure, he got to redeem himself and ascend to Christ-like status, but based on how he responded to authority throughout the whole movie, I see that he was motivated more by giving the middle finger than redeeming himself.

It wasn't a nuanced tale about universal health care, overpopulation, human rights, or immigration. It was the movie equivalent of slapping a bunch of bumper stickers on the back of a car and believing that was the same as sophisticated political discourse.

You're right, it wasn't about any of that. Sure, it had that one-percenter political vibe, at least on the outside, but that wasn't the least bit what the movie was about. What this movie was about, and what layers it had, has only been very faintly hinted at in this thread thus far. The imagery and subtext is so obvious I'm surprised people haven't picked it out.

Stout has insight for the ages. Wow! What a brilliant mind. We all bow down to you.

I'll take your poor attempt at sarcasm as a compliment No, really, I see where people would take my message wrong, in a manner I certainly didn't mean. No worries.

Ok screw it.

You are such an arrogant pompous ass when it comes to movies it's not even funny. You think you are so much better than everyone else including guys like chap and that's hard to do! You act as though because you've had some 50 dollar bit parts In a few commercials that you are the end all be all when it comes to movies and knowing what's going on, what was intended, knowing the exact message some writer you've never met or even talked to was trying to portray etc.. going on etc....

I'm surprised with how far that stick is shoved that you can enjoy any movie when you watch one. It really baffles me actually. Gauging the other responses I'm quite clearly sure I'm not the only one that feels this way. Sorry mods but it had to be said!

That's an intelligent response, right? Eh, I was going to blast you here, but it isn't worth it. I misstated my post, you didn't give an intelligent response, I noted that when I shouldn't have, and you replied like a schoolboy. Fault on both sides, sure, with you ending up way out of line. Man, take a visit to your cardiologist before your heart explodes, eh?

Like District 9, this movie was dripping with social criticism--whether people want to complain that it glorifies socialism as the ideal vs. a very strict class separation is another debate. What District 9 did with racism is what Elysium did with the Upper/Lower class debate.

The thing that I think could have made it even more powerful is if you gave the upper class people more humanity--made them more sympathetic. I think it would be interesting to know that, yes, they were rich beyond imagination, but they at least worked for it, and while they are a bit selfish, I think it would have been far more interesting if they had even a passing sympathy for the lower classes on the planet. As it stood, though, the rich were portrayed as almost Nazi-like in their prejudices towards the poor.

If this was a simple social commentary film, then yes, I believe it would have been more powerful by giving those living in Elysium even the smallest smidgeon of humanity. I don't want to spoil anything for anyone, so I'll put what I took from the movie below.

Spoiler

The religious and mythological layers and parallels in this film were stunning. Elysium, a type of Greek heaven separate from the other world of the afterlife, Hades, represents just that kind of heaven we find in the movie--where life is easiest for people. The regular citizens of earth were relegated to normal, ordinary lives at best, or hellish lives at worst. This fits completely with Greek mythology and ancient Greek beliefs. The inhabitants of Elysium also sat atop their Olympus, like Gods, and looked down their noses at, disregarded, and brutally treated those beneath them. Life under the Greed gods was much the same as under the rulers of Elysium.

But that's just the Greek angle. There you have a nun, regarding a heaven in the shape of a pentacle (I don't think I need to go over the religious symbolism from many different belief systems, good and bad, of the pentacle) explaining to the boy she tells has a destiny that Elysium isn't meant for him. Explaining how beautiful humanity looks from heaven. The boy then goes on to a huge chunk of lost life before his transformation and acceptance of his role as savior of all humanity. Remember, Jesus raged against his fate before the end, wondering why it had to be him. The parallel is clear, and his mental journey is also clear throughout the movie. It isn't just one moment of cheap payoff in the end.

My friend argued with me that the nun was the Mary figure, with this young boy without a father, but I disagreed. The mother of the sick little girl is the Mary figure in the movie, IMO. The nun represents God early on, and intermittently, but the mother of the sick little girl--with a fatherless child who ends up adopted in a protective manner by the woman's nominal mate--fills the Mary role, IMO. The immaculate conception connotation there seemed pretty obvious. I thought it was just there, but my friend thought it was both with the nun and with the mother. Could have been both, I suppose, but it got us talking, which is part of how good the movie was.

Getting back to the inhabitants of Elysium, a parallel I drew is how humanity would be treated by those fallen angels who felt themselves superior to mere humans, who were favored by God when they were not. The computer (God, of course--THAT is crystal clear in the movie) favored the citizens of Elysium instead of humanity, a nice reversal of classic biblical literature. Their treatment of humanity is much how I feel it would have been had their roles actually been reversed in the bible. Of course, once humanity manages to reprogram God (man, I enjoyed how this was portrayed), the Elysians were cast out of favor, giving humanity all of the power as in classic biblical literature.

Getting back to the Greeks, the Elysians also evoked powerful connections with the Lotus Eaters, those who reveled in their soft, comfortable existences in a supposed paradise. As the movie showed, however, it was a very flawed paradise. The three soldiers (fantastic characters, by the way) can represent the wrath and displeasure of the Gods in a metaphysical sense, or they can represent vengeful deities themselves. Copley himself has an Ares feel. Of course, Copley's character can easily be seen as a Lucifer or Satan figure. On one hand, he's cast out of favor of heaven, and strikes back at his creator (more of the Lucifer vibe); on the other hand, he's a straight up devil figure, evoking more of a cruel Satan vibe. Man, I could go on about them more, but I'm already rambling.

There were also smaller little bits here and there. The medical machines strongly evoke God's ability to work miracles. Jodie Foster's character had a Judas moment, refusing medical care perhaps to atone for her grave sins. The list goes on.

I could type more on the subject, but I suspect not many have read this far I'll probably also think of more allusions to religion, and my friend will definitely email me more observations. Suffice it to say, the religious layers were what I was referencing with my earlier post.

I'll finish by saying once again that I didn't mean to say people were stupid for not thinking this movie was brilliant. I meant to say I thought it was brilliant and also that everyone else missed what the movie really went into. I'm often very bad at expressing myself accurately on here, so I apologize for the confusion.

 

[Chaplin]

Very interesting take on the film, and I can see some of that. However, I'm not quite sure whether you are giving the writers more credit than perhaps they deserve.

I personally didn't get all the religious references--like I said, I was more concentrated on social commentary, which is what this film (and District 9 before it) is. IMO, of course.

 

[Mulli]

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[Stout]

Very interesting take on the film, and I can see some of that. However, I'm not quite sure whether you are giving the writers more credit than perhaps they deserve.

I personally didn't get all the religious references--like I said, I was more concentrated on social commentary, which is what this film (and District 9 before it) is. IMO, of course.

Cool. One of the reasons I think the movie works well is because there are many different opinions to be had.

 

[crisper57]

I wasn't trying to give the connotation that if you didn't think it was brilliant you were stupid. I should have clarified that, so I'll apologize for that part of my message.

As for the rest, well, nobody in this thread has managed to plumb the depths of it yet, so no apologies for saying everyone missed the point.



You're right, it wasn't about any of that. Sure, it had that one-percenter political vibe, at least on the outside, but that wasn't the least bit what the movie was about. What this movie was about, and what layers it had, has only been very faintly hinted at in this thread thus far. The imagery and subtext is so obvious I'm surprised people haven't picked it out.



I'll take your poor attempt at sarcasm as a compliment No, really, I see where people would take my message wrong, in a manner I certainly didn't mean. No worries.





That's an intelligent response, right? Eh, I was going to blast you here, but it isn't worth it. I misstated my post, you didn't give an intelligent response, I noted that when I shouldn't have, and you replied like a schoolboy. Fault on both sides, sure, with you ending up way out of line. Man, take a visit to your cardiologist before your heart explodes, eh?



If this was a simple social commentary film, then yes, I believe it would have been more powerful by giving those living in Elysium even the smallest smidgeon of humanity. I don't want to spoil anything for anyone, so I'll put what I took from the movie below.

Spoiler

The religious and mythological layers and parallels in this film were stunning. Elysium, a type of Greek heaven separate from the other world of the afterlife, Hades, represents just that kind of heaven we find in the movie--where life is easiest for people. The regular citizens of earth were relegated to normal, ordinary lives at best, or hellish lives at worst. This fits completely with Greek mythology and ancient Greek beliefs. The inhabitants of Elysium also sat atop their Olympus, like Gods, and looked down their noses at, disregarded, and brutally treated those beneath them. Life under the Greed gods was much the same as under the rulers of Elysium.

But that's just the Greek angle. There you have a nun, regarding a heaven in the shape of a pentacle (I don't think I need to go over the religious symbolism from many different belief systems, good and bad, of the pentacle) explaining to the boy she tells has a destiny that Elysium isn't meant for him. Explaining how beautiful humanity looks from heaven. The boy then goes on to a huge chunk of lost life before his transformation and acceptance of his role as savior of all humanity. Remember, Jesus raged against his fate before the end, wondering why it had to be him. The parallel is clear, and his mental journey is also clear throughout the movie. It isn't just one moment of cheap payoff in the end.

My friend argued with me that the nun was the Mary figure, with this young boy without a father, but I disagreed. The mother of the sick little girl is the Mary figure in the movie, IMO. The nun represents God early on, and intermittently, but the mother of the sick little girl--with a fatherless child who ends up adopted in a protective manner by the woman's nominal mate--fills the Mary role, IMO. The immaculate conception connotation there seemed pretty obvious. I thought it was just there, but my friend thought it was both with the nun and with the mother. Could have been both, I suppose, but it got us talking, which is part of how good the movie was.

Getting back to the inhabitants of Elysium, a parallel I drew is how humanity would be treated by those fallen angels who felt themselves superior to mere humans, who were favored by God when they were not. The computer (God, of course--THAT is crystal clear in the movie) favored the citizens of Elysium instead of humanity, a nice reversal of classic biblical literature. Their treatment of humanity is much how I feel it would have been had their roles actually been reversed in the bible. Of course, once humanity manages to reprogram God (man, I enjoyed how this was portrayed), the Elysians were cast out of favor, giving humanity all of the power as in classic biblical literature.

Getting back to the Greeks, the Elysians also evoked powerful connections with the Lotus Eaters, those who reveled in their soft, comfortable existences in a supposed paradise. As the movie showed, however, it was a very flawed paradise. The three soldiers (fantastic characters, by the way) can represent the wrath and displeasure of the Gods in a metaphysical sense, or they can represent vengeful deities themselves. Copley himself has an Ares feel. Of course, Copley's character can easily be seen as a Lucifer or Satan figure. On one hand, he's cast out of favor of heaven, and strikes back at his creator (more of the Lucifer vibe); on the other hand, he's a straight up devil figure, evoking more of a cruel Satan vibe. Man, I could go on about them more, but I'm already rambling.

There were also smaller little bits here and there. The medical machines strongly evoke God's ability to work miracles. Jodie Foster's character had a Judas moment, refusing medical care perhaps to atone for her grave sins. The list goes on.

I could type more on the subject, but I suspect not many have read this far I'll probably also think of more allusions to religion, and my friend will definitely email me more observations. Suffice it to say, the religious layers were what I was referencing with my earlier post.

I'll finish by saying once again that I didn't mean to say people were stupid for not thinking this movie was brilliant. I meant to say I thought it was brilliant and also that everyone else missed what the movie really went into. I'm often very bad at expressing myself accurately on here, so I apologize for the confusion.

Ok. You win. I didn't peel back the social commentary to look at the metaphysical references. Of course, I also have about 5 beers in me when I watched it (after the Cards first preseason game), but that is not relevant here!

 

[Cheesebeef]

Ok screw it.

You are such an arrogant pompous ass when it comes to movies it's not even funny. You think you are so much better than everyone else including guys like chap and that's hard to do! You act as though because you've had some 50 dollar bit parts In a few commercials that you are the end all be all when it comes to movies and knowing what's going on, what was intended, knowing the exact message some writer you've never met or even talked to was trying to portray etc.. going on etc....

I'm surprised with how far that stick is shoved that you can enjoy any movie when you watch one. It really baffles me actually. Gauging the other responses I'm quite clearly sure I'm not the only one that feels this way. Sorry mods but it had to be said!

I totally agree! Everyone knows that I'M the end all be all as far as movies are concerned!

 

[BigRedRage]

you are all wrong. This was about the eternal fight between bert and ernie on if they are gay or just puppets. I cant believe you didnt see that. Do you just watch the movie or something? What kind of moviegoer doesnt bring a notepad and compare it to the deepest topic they can find through the 6 degrees of kevin bacon? Go back to your M night shamalan stuff

 

[Stout]

you are all wrong. This was about the eternal fight between bert and ernie on if they are gay or just puppets. I cant believe you didnt see that. Do you just watch the movie or something? What kind of moviegoer doesnt bring a notepad and compare it to the deepest topic they can find through the 6 degrees of kevin bacon? Go back to your M night shamalan stuff

Oh yeah, I forgot that part too

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

I totally agree! Everyone knows that I'M the end all be all as far as movies are concerned!

You suck...ya jackass!

 

[Russ Smith]

Brings to mind a story a friend of mine told me last year. He's an author, he's at some show and he wanders over to another booth and someone starts talking about books by the author at that booth. they then say it reminds me of and brings up a book HE wrote. The guy then proceeds to tell him what the book was really about and he says "not exactly."

The guy then tells him he knows nothing about writing and he responds "you may be right ,but I know that book, I'm the author, check the picture on the back if you don't believe me" and then walked away.

 

[Chaplin]

Brings to mind a story a friend of mine told me last year. He's an author, he's at some show and he wanders over to another booth and someone starts talking about books by the author at that booth. they then say it reminds me of and brings up a book HE wrote. The guy then proceeds to tell him what the book was really about and he says "not exactly."

The guy then tells him he knows nothing about writing and he responds "you may be right ,but I know that book, I'm the author, check the picture on the back if you don't believe me" and then walked away.

Is that a true story, or are you quoting Woody Allen and Marshall McLuhan?

 

[Stout]

Brings to mind a story a friend of mine told me last year. He's an author, he's at some show and he wanders over to another booth and someone starts talking about books by the author at that booth. they then say it reminds me of and brings up a book HE wrote. The guy then proceeds to tell him what the book was really about and he says "not exactly."

The guy then tells him he knows nothing about writing and he responds "you may be right ,but I know that book, I'm the author, check the picture on the back if you don't believe me" and then walked away.

Great story. It reminds me of the time I met the author Terry Brooks as a kid. He was signing books at a mall, and as he was signing the Sword of Shannara for me, I said, "I really love the Sword of SHAN-nara". He thanked me but said it was the "Sword of Shah-narah". I almost let slip that no, he was incorrect, that two n's indicate a hard 'N' sound, but stopped. He's the author, after all

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

I still need to see this, if only to give context to the conversation here.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I still need to see this, if only to give context to the conversation here.

why bother? pretty sure you're not going to get it (the movie...or the conversation) anyway you halfwit!

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

why bother? pretty sure you're not going to get it (the movie...or the conversation) anyway you halfwit!

I know it doesn't have Schwarzenegger in it, but I should still be able to follow it...jackass!

 

[Covert Rain]

Great story. It reminds me of the time I met the author Terry Brooks as a kid. He was signing books at a mall, and as he was signing the Sword of Shannara for me, I said, "I really love the Sword of SHAN-nara". He thanked me but said it was the "Sword of Shah-narah". I almost let slip that no, he was incorrect, that two n's indicate a hard 'N' sound, but stopped. He's the author, after all

This reminds me of a story as well. A friend of mine went to San Diego Comic Con about 6 or 7 years ago (I forget). He had never been to any kind of show like that before. Really were not into that kind of thing at that level but still fans of much of the stuff there. He is very much just a casual fan but went because he thought it would be fun.

He bought an actual script used during filming of a short lived show. He noticed this average looking guy standing by who asked him if he ever watched that show. He said him and his wife loved the show and were so mad it was cancelled. He talked about how he loved the writers previous two shows. They asked if he liked them and he said "ofcourse" (like he was shocked at the question).

After that they both kind of just watched people pass by for about a minute or so. The guy then asked him, "so....do you want me to sign that?" Not really knowing anything about the creative side, he thought about it and just said "Umm...yeah I guess"....thinking it must be someone who worked on the show. The guy signed the script, said thank you and walked away.

His wife asked "who was that?" and he said he had no clue. He pulled out the script and read the signature.

The signature read.....Joss Whedon. LOL. He was walking the floor and used to have a reputation of doing so back then to mingle with the fans. Freaking unbelievable. Any of my other friends or I would have recognized him instantly. Him and his wife had no clue. They were approached by a few people who watched the entire thing and were offered big bucks to get the signed Firefly script. They said no and still have it.

BASTARD.

 

[Russ Smith]

Is that a true story, or are you quoting Woody Allen and Marshall McLuhan?

No true story I went to highschool with the guy.

It was as some convention the guy talking to him had no idea who he was and was telling him what a book was really about, not knowing he was telling the author of the book what his own book was about.

He said it's quite common he has lots of friends who are authors who have had similar experiences with fans of books. It makes sense, I never look at the back to see what the author looks like.

It basically just spells out we all interpret books our own way and are convinced we're right. If it makes the book work for us great, but it doesn't mean that's what the author actually meant.

 

[Stout]

No true story I went to highschool with the guy.

It was as some convention the guy talking to him had no idea who he was and was telling him what a book was really about, not knowing he was telling the author of the book what his own book was about.

He said it's quite common he has lots of friends who are authors who have had similar experiences with fans of books. It makes sense, I never look at the back to see what the author looks like.

It basically just spells out we all interpret books our own way and are convinced we're right. If it makes the book work for us great, but it doesn't mean that's what the author actually meant.

Yeah, I'm a writer, and a lot of writers say that, once your material is out of your hands, it isn't your work any more; it's the readers'.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I guess I'm one who didn't "get" the movie. thought it was okay, fell asleep at one point.

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

I guess I'm one who didn't "get" the movie. thought it was okay, fell asleep at one point.

That doesn't surprise me. I don't see a blockhead like you getting a British comedy.

 

[Gee!]

I just read this whole thread for the first time.. I had to check what I was reading by the end to make sure I wasn't in a Mr Bean thread.. Haha

 

[UncleChris]

The bride and I watched this today and both gave it a 3.5 out of 5. It felt like an opportunity lost. Good effects and solid performances by Damon and Foster, but the shaky-cam and plot holes kind of took the steam out of it for us. It could have been a much better picture.

 

[Covert Rain]

Finally went to see this yesterday. Very pedestrian. Cool concept and it had legs but the second half of the movie degraded rapidly into cartoonish bad guy versus good guy. Jodie Foster's character was wasted.

 

[Superbone]

Finally went to see this yesterday. Very pedestrian. Cool concept and it had legs but the second half of the movie degraded rapidly into cartoonish bad guy versus good guy. Jodie Foster's character was wasted.

Yep. Yep. Yep.

Unless you're Stout in which case it was a masterpiece in subtlety.