Enjoyable Kobe Article

George O'Brien

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I saw the Pistons focus more on trapping the ball out of Kobe's hands than forcing Shaq to give up the ball. And, defensively, Shaq should have had a tattoo of Clark Kent's black-framed glasses on his arm, not a Superman logo. The Pistons didn't shy away from attacking the rim and yet Shaq had all of three blocked shots in five games.

This seems pretty overstated. First, the Pistons did double Shaq quite a bit. Second, Shaq was fairly effective. Here are his stats in the finals:

26.6 ppg
63.1%
10.8 rpg

This is not exactly Clark Kent stuff.

On the other hand, Kobe shot only 38.1% from the field and 17.4% for three in scoring 22.6 ppg. Kobe took 113 shots to only 84 by Shaq. Concluding that the problem with the Lakers in the finals was Shaq seems like a reach.

A killer for the Lakers was that the rest of their team did so little. The third highest scorer was Fisher with only 6.4 ppg. IMHO, blaming Shaq for the loss makes very little sense.
 

Renz

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George O'Brien said:
This seems pretty overstated. First, the Pistons did double Shaq quite a bit. Second, Shaq was fairly effective. Here are his stats in The Finals:

26.6 ppg
63.1%
10.8 rpg

This is not exactly Clark Kent stuff.
You're forgetting that Shaq played almost no defense in The Finals. He averaged only 3.0 offensive RPG and .6 blocks while also committing 2.8 TO's.
 

George O'Brien

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Renz said:
You're forgetting that Shaq played almost no defense in The Finals. He averaged only 3.0 offensive RPG and .6 blocks while also committing 2.8 TO's.

I'm not convinced that it was Shaq's defense that killed the Lakers. Yes, he could have done better, but 63% of the points were scored by the Piston's outside guys. Billips averaged 21.0 ppg , Hamilton 21.4 ppg, and Prince averaged 10 ppg. Sheed Wallace averaged 13 ppg and Ben Wallace 10.8 ppg.

Perhaps Shaq could have done more against guys attacking the basket, but as the only reliable offensive threat who was struggling with foul trouble through the finals, I'm not sure that's realistic.
 

Joe Mama

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Frankly I think this is silly. If anybody deserves blame for the Lakers' loss in the finals it is Kobe Bryant. Yes, he was double teamed, but he continued to force shots. He also couldn't stand watching Shaquille O'Neal single-handedly destroyed the Pistons, said he refused to give him the ball for long stretches.

The Detroit Pistons were a good team, but I still think they were one of the weakest champions in a long time. Jason Kidd was injured or New Jersey , yet the Pistons barely got by them. They didn't get by Indiana until Jermaine O'Neal was hurt. Finally they faced the Lakers with a hobbled or without any Karl Malone... the guy that held that Lakers team together.

Joe Mama
 

George O'Brien

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Joe Mama said:
Frankly I think this is silly. If anybody deserves blame for the Lakers' loss in the finals it is Kobe Bryant. Yes, he was double teamed, but he continued to force shots. He also couldn't stand watching Shaquille O'Neal single-handedly destroyed the Pistons, said he refused to give him the ball for long stretches.

The Detroit Pistons were a good team, but I still think they were one of the weakest champions in a long time. Jason Kidd was injured or New Jersey , yet the Pistons barely got by them. They didn't get by Indiana until Jermaine O'Neal was hurt. Finally they faced the Lakers with a hobbled or without any Karl Malone... the guy that held that Lakers team together.

Joe Mama

I'm inclined to agree, although the failure of the rest of the Lakers to score certainly created problems since the Pistons could focus on defending only two guys.

Kobe has never really had to face a double team before and it showed. Rather than recognize it and pass to an open man, he would waste time trying to get away from Prince and someone else rather than passing the ball.

It will be interesting to see how Kobe responds to the post Shaq environment. The Lakers have enough talent to be a playoff team, but only if Kobe decides to play team basketball.
 
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baltimorer

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Joe Mama said:
Frankly I think this is silly. If anybody deserves blame for the Lakers' loss in the finals it is Kobe Bryant. Yes, he was double teamed, but he continued to force shots. He also couldn't stand watching Shaquille O'Neal single-handedly destroyed the Pistons, said he refused to give him the ball for long stretches.

Joe Mama

I disagree somewhat with that. If Kobe Bryant looked like he lost the finals for the Lakers, then credit the Detroit Pistons more than anything. If all Kobe had to do was pass the ball to the open man when he was double-teamed, he would've been able to do that. Sure, he had a healthy number of field goal attempts per game, but he didn't shoot the ball everytime he touched it. So if anybody other than Kobe and Shaq were making ANY shots in the series, those other guys would've made the Pistons pay for trapping Kobe so hard, and Detroit would've been forced to adjust. As it stood, nobody other than Shaq was scoring the ball, so it was either shoot the ball, pass it to Shaquille, or watch another missed shot clank off the rim. If you're Kobe Bryant, even if you're not shooting the ball well at all, you still have to believe that next shot is going in, because it was obvious to everybody watching the game that nobody else's shot was going to.

As far as him "not being able to stand Shaq destroy the Pistons," that's certainly not a fair statement at all. Keep in mind, the Lakers had won 3 times previous. If Kobe didn't want to see Shaq play well, this fact would not have ever been allowed to happen. Everybody makes such a huge deal about Kobe and Shaq not being able to coexist, but they proved that they not only could do that, but they could succeed together. Kobe's approach to the game was no different in the Detroit Finals than it had been in any of the four previous years, it was only the result that changed. But to say that he "couldn't stand" seeing Shaq play well makes it sound like he purposely sabotaged the series, and that is a simple falacy. And considering it was O'neal's worst Finals appearance of his entire career, I can't really fault Kobe for shooting some forced shots. He didn't play well, but either did anybody else on the team. The Lakers were dominated in every game but the second one, and for one guy to be the culprit of such a poor showing seems calculated and far-fetched to me.

But hey, that's just my opinion I could be wrong.
 

Joe Mama

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I think you are reading my post a little too literally. I don't know if Kobe Bryant truly "couldn't stand" to see Shaquille O'Neal destroy the Pistons I just know that through the first half of several of those games Shaq was shredding Detroit only to have his teammates, especially Kobe Bryant, inexplicably freeze him the rest of the game.

I'm not trying to put the entire weight of the LA Lakers' Finals loss on Kobe Bryant's shoulders. I do however believe that he didn't play particularly well, and he did play selfishly. In fact I think the Karl Malone injury was the biggest factor in their loss.

Joe Mama
 
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baltimorer

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Joe Mama said:
I think you are reading my post a little too literally. I don't know if Kobe Bryant truly "couldn't stand" to see Shaquille O'Neal destroy the Pistons I just know that through the first half of several of those games Shaq was shredding Detroit only to have his teammates, especially Kobe Bryant, inexplicably freeze him the rest of the game.

I'm not trying to put the entire weight of the LA Lakers' Finals loss on Kobe Bryant's shoulders. I do however believe that he didn't play particularly well, and he did play selfishly. In fact I think the Karl Malone injury was the biggest factor in their loss.

Joe Mama

I agree with you on most of what you just said. The Lakers needed to get Shaq the ball much, much more than they did during the 2004 NBA Finals. That had been the Lakers' problem since before they won a single championship with Kobe and Shaq, and during their run it was their main problem as well, they were just so good that they could win despite this flaw.

Kobe didn't play well in the Finals, I'll concede that to you. I just don't think Kobe Bryant is a selfish player. He was on the court with Shaquille O'neal and 3 other scrubs at all times, and because of that, he wasn't able to get anything decent going towards the rim. The bottom line is, Kobe's job on the court is, above all else, to score the basketball. He simply did not have the opportunity to do that in the Detroit series. You know, I've seen great players get tripple teamed and have nothing going from a scoring standpoint, so they do other things. They make the extra pass, they kick the ball out of the post when they get trapped, they make stops on defense, they dive on the ground, and they will their teams to win in other ways besides scoring. Michael Jordan could do it (although most of the time he could just score anyway), Magic Johnson did it, Isiah Thomas did it, Anfernee Hardaway did it at one time, and I've seen Kobe Bryant do it. Unfortunately for him, in this case it wasn't an option. The other guys just weren't getting it done. Sure, he should've passed the ball to Shaq more, but who knows if Shaquille could've been effective with more touches. Considering the constant beating he takes, and the minutes he was playing (42.6 mpg, up from 36.8 in the regular season), and the sluggish way he was playing on the defensive end, he may have been giving LA all he could already. Hell, if you really want to put the "weight" of the Lakers' loss on anybody, you know a significant portion of it had to go to O'neal. Namely, around the midsection, under his chin, and probably on his thighs. :p

Basically, it was a really poor performance on behalf of every single Laker that took the court last June. They were totally dominated mentally by a team that had as much NBA Finals experience as I do. They didn't look like they believed they could win it, and that was probably their most dooming shortcoming. Maybe if Karl Malone played he would've made a big difference, who knows. But Gary Payton lost all confidence, their young guys were totally overwhelmed. Even Luke Walton, who had such an inspiring Game 2, was confused and bamboozled once Detroit adjusted. Derek Fisher was ineffective, Horace Grant looked old, Shaq looked fat on D and Kobe looked like crap.
 
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