ESPN Insider Article - Suns 3rd Worst Franchise for the Future?

[SunsTzu]

Again, nobody could sign all 3 of them.

I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying that Miami as an example isn't really a strong argument.

If the argument is players are more interested in playing in a large market then it is a pretty strong statement to the contrary. There are factors more important than market size as was shown by how FA played out.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Phoenix is still a destination for players, Grant Hill (and Channing Frye) has proved that in recent times.

The problem really has nothing to do with the Suns, it has to do with the greed of the NBA, its teams and the players. Unfortunately, the "small market" theories out there hold a lot of credence now more than ever.

c'mon chap . . . grant hill joined us when we thought we were still a contender. frye joined us b/c seemingly no one else wanted him and phx was his hometown. i don't think those type of considerations will typically play out over the next few years.

 

[Chaplin]

c'mon chap . . . grant hill joined us when we thought we were still a contender. frye joined us b/c seemingly no one else wanted him and phx was his hometown. i don't think those type of considerations will typically play out over the next few years.

I'm refuting the blanket statement that Phoenix is no longer a place where athletes would like to go. If you disagree like SunsTzu, that's fine. It's no big deal. I just don't believe Phoenix isn't an attractive destination anymore. You can say that arguably Josh Childress can be proof of that considering he was being courted by more than a few teams.

 

[Manu4five]

I don't think the Spurs would have had any trouble landing a major FA during TD's prime but since they drafted so well they had to retain their players and never had the money available whenever there were big time FA. They still got the same type of ring chasing vets that the Lakers and Celtics got.

As a Spurs fan I can assure you this isn't true. Before the "big three" was formed we went after big name FAs and even when Parker was a rookie we went after the likes of Kidd, trying very hard just to see him sign somewhere else. The most important signing of the Spurs was Bowen who was certainly not a premier FA. We just got lucky/had a smart FO and I think that's what it takes for small market teams.

 

[SunsTzu]

As a Spurs fan I can assure you this isn't true. Before the "big three" was formed we went after big name FAs and even when Parker was a rookie we went after the likes of Kidd, trying very hard just to see him sign somewhere else. The most important signing of the Spurs was Bowen who was certainly not a premier FA. We just got lucky/had a smart FO and I think that's what it takes for small market teams.

You went after Kidd but couldn't offer him nearly as much money as NJ. Kidd would have been a bad fit anyways but had they been able to match the Nets offer he would have gone to the Spurs.

With the exception of Artest who was willing to take the MLE the Lakers/Celtics FA gains haven't been any more impressive than what the Spurs were at their peak.

 

[slinslin]

Phoenix is still a destination for players, Grant Hill (and Channing Frye) has proved that in recent times.

The problem really has nothing to do with the Suns, it has to do with the greed of the NBA, its teams and the players. Unfortunately, the "small market" theories out there hold a lot of credence now more than ever.

That's great but championship teams are build through the draft and not through free agency.

There are hardly any exceptions really..

Lakers - Kobe, Magic
Spurs - Duncan, Robinson, Ginobili, Parker
Miami - Wade
Chicago - Jordan
Detroit - Isiah, Prince
Celtics - Bird, Pierce, Rondo ..

The Suns sorely lack that young franchise player you can look at for the next 10 years or so and that is what makles the future of this team miserable because they will never get one if they refuse to rebuild.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

That's great but championship teams are build through the draft and not through free agency.

There are hardly any exceptions really..

Lakers - Kobe, Magic, Spurs - Duncan, Robinson, Ginobili, Parker
Miami - Wade
Chicago - Jordan
Detroit - Isiah, Hamilton,
Celtics - Bird, Pierce, Rondo ..

The Suns sorely lack that young franchise player you can look at for the next 10 years or so and that is what makles the future of this team miserable because they will never get one if they refuse to rebuild.

that's not entirely true. first of all, kobe wasn't a draft pick. he was a trade. and yeah, he was traded at the time of the draft, but only b/c he demanded a trade, so it's not like the lakers acquired him just by drafting wisely.

also you're discounting free agency like, um . . . shaq going to the lakers. billups going to the pistons.

and other trades (some forced) like wilt and kareem going to the lakers (see a theme here . . . jesus i hate the lakers). or kg and allen with the celtics. or mark agguire with the pistons.

drafting may be the EASIEST route to a championship, but it certainly hasn't proven to be the ONLY route.

 

[Manu4five]

You went after Kidd but couldn't offer him nearly as much money as NJ. Kidd would have been a bad fit anyways but had they been able to match the Nets offer he would have gone to the Spurs.

With the exception of Artest who was willing to take the MLE the Lakers/Celtics FA gains haven't been any more impressive than what the Spurs were at their peak.

I agree about Kidd but I see the Artest signing as another typical Lakers big market signing. To give one earlier example in 2003 Lakers signed Karl Malone and Gary Payton for pocket money (fail ring chasers ). Spurs have signed some quality old vets too (Horry, Barry, Dice) but never a Karl Malone. I think that the Lakers have been much more attractive than the Spurs for FAs.

Lakers are a dynasty because they have been successful both in the draft and free agency and because of unbalanced trades (Gasol). Spurs is a different story. There are several ways to build a championship team. My personal experience as a Spurs fan tells me that the draft is the easiest way for a smaller market team but maybe this does not hold true for all smaller market teams.

 

[SunsTzu]

Karl Malone wasn't Karl Malone when he went to the Lakers same with Payton. Spurs got their aging ring chasers as well with guys like Barry and Finley. Spurs could have attracted better FA with a prime Duncan had they ever had the money in a strong FA class, but they were able to draft well and already had players deserving of the money on the team.

 

[slinslin]

that's not entirely true. first of all, kobe wasn't a draft pick. he was a trade. and yeah, he was traded at the time of the draft, but only b/c he demanded a trade, so it's not like the lakers acquired him just by drafting wisely.

also you're discounting free agency like, um . . . shaq going to the lakers. billups going to the pistons.

and other trades (some forced) like wilt and kareem going to the lakers (see a theme here . . . jesus i hate the lakers). or kg and allen with the celtics. or mark agguire with the pistons.

drafting may be the EASIEST route to a championship, but it certainly hasn't proven to be the ONLY route.

Thats in most irrelevant. Kobe is a draft pick as he never played a game for anyone but the Lakers.

Shaq going to the Lakers was a rare exception and won't happen for us anytime soon. Plus they got Kobe in the draft to add to him.


KG and Allen also is not an argument. They were acquired by trading draft picks. Jeff Green and Al Jefferson plus they were added to draft picks in Pierce who is their leader and Rondo who is the best player on the team for a while now.

Detroit really is the only case that I'd say was an exception with only Prince being their draft pick.

And the other top teams right now..

Nuggets - Anthony
Thunder - Durant
Jazz - Williams
Hornets - Paul
Blazers - Roy
Magic - Howard

The list goes on and on.. Pretty much every top team is build around a star player that is their own draft pick. The only team build through free agency is probably Atlanta with Joe Johnson but he is backed by a ton of quality draft picks like Horford, Williams and Smith.

The Suns were built around Nash and Amare both who were drafted by the Suns. Now they are only built around Nash who is 37 and nobody else can take over that position.