ESPN Projects 26 Wins, 2nd Worst in West

[3rdside]

In our first two games, our Starting Power Forward, Dudley, is averaging 5.0 points and 2.0 rebounds in 25.5 minutes. Our veteran backup Center, Len, is averaging 5.5 points and 3.5 rebounds in 19.0 minutes.

And, as I feared, our closing unit has three Guards on the wing and a Small Forward playing Power Forward. SOS! (and I don't mean save our ship -- or maybe I do. )

It looks like the Coach has gotten the message from above to stick to the status quo that has kept us out of the playoffs for half a decade. Has any team in history in any sport tanked for 6 straight years?

Great post! Sums up about where I'm at - cherry on top'd knowing dragic and Thomas are killing it while knight redefines what it means to suck big, hairy balls.


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[SirStefan32]

Great post! Sums up about where I'm at - cherry on top'd knowing dragic and Thomas are killing it while knight redefines what it means to suck big, hairy balls.


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In all fairness, there is no room for either of them on this team. Sure, you could replace Bledsoe, but that would make for one awful back court defensively. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather have that Lakers pick than Knight, but IT and Dragic would have no place on this team.

I do hope that Criss and Bender start taking more minutes away from Tucker and Dudley, however.

 

[sunsfan88]

In all fairness, there is no room for either of them on this team. Sure, you could replace Bledsoe, but that would make for one awful back court defensively. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather have that Lakers pick than Knight, but IT and Dragic would have no place on this team.

I do hope that Criss and Bender start taking more minutes away from Tucker and Dudley, however.

I would much rather have Dragic on this team (yes even on that contract he got in the '15 off season) than Knight.

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[3rdside]

It's not just that we don't have Dragic and the pick, it's the rather humiliating way we've got to where we are now with a terrible W-L record and flaws all over the roster.

Questionable leadership, McD blame games proving where there's smoke there's fire (the exits of dragic, Morris bro's, frye), laughable high five counts, ridiculous Sarver outbursts, a GM that saw a 48-34 record with great team synergy and blew it up for what looks to be multiple 25 win seasons capped off by Thomas, Morris, Morris and Dragic apparently doing better than decent things for their clubs while we wallow in Knight imbecility and untradeability.

Tough to digest and indicative of management that doesn't know what it's doing.

 

[3rdside]

In all fairness, there is no room for either of them on this team. Sure, you could replace Bledsoe, but that would make for one awful back court defensively. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather have that Lakers pick than Knight, but IT and Dragic would have no place on this team.

Dragic and Bledsoe ='d 48 wins.

I know the view is that that roster was going nowhere but surely a better GM (and coaches, it's not all on McD) would have put us in a better situation than we are now.

 

[3rdside]

Dragic, Bledsoe, Warren, Morris Bros and my grandma at centre (who just turned 102 actually) - no need to tank right there at all.

Stronger management would have made them work, Sarver and McD (and Hornacek I guess but he had IT foisted on him) clearly couldn't.

 

[3rdside]

*Stoudemire at centre - he was looking for a team and joined Dallas from memory.

Add Phx Suns blanking him for his retirement day as further proof of management ineptitude (a management practice known as 'creating negative goodwill' - a classic feature of bad organisations; "here's a nice way to handle this to generate positive goodwill...let's do the opposite").

 

[hcsilla]

In all fairness, there is no room for either of them on this team. Sure, you could replace Bledsoe, but that would make for one awful back court defensively. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather have that Lakers pick than Knight, but IT and Dragic would have no place on this team.

We are talking about 3 trades.

I still think that the Dragic-deal was good/OK for the Suns.

The Knight-deal was terrible and sadly even most of the posters on this board did realize this before the FO did (or had to do).

The IT-deal was a panic move and it turned out to be a bad one.

Provided that the Dragic-trade goes down and the Knight-one doesn't is quite likely that after Bledsoe's injury last season Thomas would have increased his value (heavily) as a starting point guard and this summer we could have had a quality starting PG on one of best contracts in the league for sale, plus we would have the LAL pick and could have avoided the headcase of turning Knight into something valuable on and/or off court.

 

[overseascardfan]

To be honest, I would rather have a backcourt of Booker & Thomas. It's not like we have a lock down defense with Bledsoe in the back court plus who knows how long his knees will hold up, he dropped some weight to obviously help with that but Thomas is a work horse who hasn't missed many games due to injuries.

 

[JCSunsfan]

We still have yet to see what those two Miami picks will bring us. We would have been a mediocre team for the last three years.

 

[3rdside]

We still have yet to see what those two Miami picks will bring us. We would have been a mediocre team for the last three years.

I can't say that I'm strictly a Dragic fan but i am a Dragic + Bledsoe fan, if that maks sense. SOMETHING had to be responsible for that season and I'm fairly sure it was those two, not a fluke.

Dragic looks like he might prove me right.

A 48 - 34 team, with a tweak here and a tweak there, Warren coming into his own now and Morris bros handled properly (that is a yuuuge assumption of course but Popovich would have managed) means we didn't need a full rebuild. But McD just couldn't see what he had in front of him and tossed it - chemistry - away like it's nothing.

So we can talk about the Miami picks as much as we like but if we're relying on them then that's a 6 year rebuild with no guarantees that we'll be any better than 48-34 which we had 3 years ago.

 

[3rdside]

Yes, we were all baulking at paying Frye that much - $8m or so - but we didn't even make an offer, or at least seek a replacement better than Tolliver, was it?

Either way, if I was GM i'd have looked at the success we had that season, identify what was likely the cause behind it (Dragic and Bledsoe, with Frye on the floor allowing Dragic the space to drive and shoot; his advanced stats were off the charts good when they played together) and build on it.

But no, we've had to bring in Thomas, upset the dynamic, knee jerk attempt to fix the problem, have a procession of players bad mouth the organisation after they left, take on board dufus Knight, plumb new depths of ineptitude with hires and performances, and now the high five thing.

We're a laughing stock and that kills me.

 

[Errntknght]

hopefully you won't find any takers in your history rehash... we all had our say about it - over and over - at the time. Hundreds of pages of hashing, bashing and what iffing. We are where we are and I'm not too unhappy with our outlook... it was much bleaker pre McD. Heck, its not too hard to imagine this group of players developing into contenders 3-4 years down the road. Of course a lot has to go right and we'll have to add some useful pieces but it could happen.
And we get to enjoy watching lots of young guys turn into bball players.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Dragic, Bledsoe, Warren, Morris Bros and my grandma at centre (who just turned 102 actually) - no need to tank right there at all.

Stronger management would have made them work, Sarver and McD (and Hornacek I guess but he had IT foisted on him) clearly couldn't.

That would be a terrible team.

 

[Cheesebeef]

That would be a terrible team.

he did say no need to tank there at all... and he's right, but not the way I think he meant it.

 

[JCSunsfan]

The Morris brothers were the main problem. We made a deal with the devil when we signed Marcus. It gave Kieff power. We then let let Frye walk because we were handing the starting of job to Kieff. The spacing was never the same.


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[overseascardfan]

Well, we are 1-4 so that is .200 at this rate we are on pace for about 17 wins.

 

[sunsfan88]

The Morris brothers were the main problem. We made a deal with the devil when we signed Marcus. It gave Kieff power. We then let let Frye walk because we were handing the starting of job to Kieff. The spacing was never the same.


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Its weird but Marcus has now turned into a top 10 SF in the NBA. Goes on to show you that coaching matters...I wish Sarver wasn't cheap and would pay top dollar to get a coach like Stan Van Gundy or Thibs.

 

[Errntknght]

Its weird but Marcus has now turned into a top 10 SF in the NBA. Goes on to show you that coaching matters...I wish Sarver wasn't cheap and would pay top dollar to get a coach like Stan Van Gundy or Thibs.

Its not weird its wrong. Marcus was below average among SFs on almost every stat last year - pts, reb, ast, fg% - very much the same stats he had here in fact.

 

[3rdside]

hopefully you won't find any takers in your history rehash... we all had our say about it - over and over - at the time. Hundreds of pages of hashing, bashing and what iffing. We are where we are and I'm not too unhappy with our outlook... it was much bleaker pre McD. Heck, its not too hard to imagine this group of players developing into contenders 3-4 years down the road. Of course a lot has to go right and we'll have to add some useful pieces but it could happen.
And we get to enjoy watching lots of young guys turn into bball players.

It's a proper rant! The point was not to rehash history - we've all got our own take on things - but to point out that we're going nowhere with McD in charge, as evidenced by a multitude of management clangers.

 

[3rdside]

That would be a terrible team.

With a floor spacer and strong management, I should have added - it's a moot point as the latter is the clincher here and we definitely don't have that.

 

[3rdside]

And here I go with the McD sympathy again (seems to be a seasonal thing!)...If he's trying to turn the ball club into a 'nicey nicey' environment, then that's fine with me - I like positive, attitude free work environments and maybe the morris bros thing was just an unavoidable polar opposite personality clash - and guys like Dudley, Knight, Chriss, Bender etc they fit that bill. The high fives thing ties right in with that.

So if the draft picks of Booker, Chriss, Bender and, dare I say it, Len form part of a talented contender in a few years that are much more in the mold of McD's personality, and one would hope the coach's as well, then all power to him. I too would enjoy watching them grow, assuming we could predict a reasonable end game, which we can't.

But in trying to predict this end game we have to look at what decisions McD has made to date - huge, embarrassing ones that will haunt us for years to come potentially, and I'm already nervous that weak management is on display again as evidenced by Dudley potentially just cashing checks, the opening night effort (worst home opener loss in history) and very questionable commentary that doesn't make me think otherwise.

 

[Hoop Head]

And here I go with the McD sympathy again (seems to be a seasonal thing!)...If he's trying to turn the ball club into a 'nicey nicey' environment, then that's fine with me - I like positive, attitude free work environments and maybe the morris bros thing was just an unavoidable polar opposite personality clash - and guys like Dudley, Knight, Chriss, Bender etc they fit that bill. The high fives thing ties right in with that.

So if the draft picks of Booker, Chriss, Bender and, dare I say it, Len form part of a talented contender in a few years then all power to McD. I too would enjoy watching them grow, assuming we could predict a reasonable end game, which we can't.

But in trying to predict this end game we have to look at what decisions McD has made to date - huge, embarrassing ones that will haunt us for years to come potentially, and I'm already nervous that weak management is on display again as evidenced by Dudley potentially just cashing checks, the opening night effort (worst home opener loss in history) and very questionable commentary that doesn't make me think otherwise.

What did you expect this season, the playoffs? We're going to get another high lottery pick, top 5, most likely.

I don't understand how or what McD did to set us back years. He hasn't traded any of our own picks, he's drafted really well so far, and he's made trades that needed to be made at those times. Dragic wasn't happy in the "duel PG" system, especially with IT backing him up. He said he wouldn't stay here so he was traded for good assets. The IT trade was a bad move but I doubt anyone here would have thought he'd be an All Star caliber PG. The Morrii were signed at a bargain and dealt because of off court & attitude issues. I think the only true "miss" he has made is trading for and extending Knight. Trading him was a wash, we gave up a pick we really got lucky to have, the Nash trade, and he was supposed to fit into the system Hornacek wanted to run. He played at All Star levels in Milwaukee before he came here and has spent most of his time injured.

 

[Phrazbit]

I'd do the Dragic trade again in a heartbeat... and the Heat almost certainly wouldn't. It's amusing how all of this revisionist history wasn't being mentioned when Dragic spent 70% of last season and the playoffs crapping the bed, but hey, he had 2 good games in a row! Time to drag that dead horse back out!

 

[3rdside]

What did you expect this season, the playoffs? We're going to get another high lottery pick, top 5, most likely.

I don't understand how or what McD did to set us back years. He hasn't traded any of our own picks, he's drafted really well so far, and he's made trades that needed to be made at those times. Dragic wasn't happy in the "duel PG" system, especially with IT backing him up. He said he wouldn't stay here so he was traded for good assets. The IT trade was a bad move but I doubt anyone here would have thought he'd be an All Star caliber PG. The Morrii were signed at a bargain and dealt because of off court & attitude issues. I think the only true "miss" he has made is trading for and extending Knight. Trading him was a wash, we gave up a pick we really got lucky to have, the Nash trade, and he was supposed to fit into the system Hornacek wanted to run. He played at All Star levels in Milwaukee before he came here and has spent most of his time injured.

- The IT trade was horrendous, both coming in and going out, a double fail.
- The Knight trade was horrendous.
- The handling of Dragic was horrendous. Not justifying his subsequent behaviour, but pointing out what lead to it.
- The handling of the Morris bros were horrendous. Not justifying their behaviour either but if Marcus or Marcus and Markieff together are headcases, why bring him / them in in the first place? Strong management identifies the right talent and culture fits, weak doesn't.
- The handling of Frye reeked of a total misunderstanding of the situation.
- The high fives thing is a joke.
- The effort on opening night was appalling.
- The stalemate with the Bledsoe negotiation that lead Bledsoe to say "they're using the rules against me"; negative goodwill created.
- Amare not retiring here; more negative goodwill.
- Our locker room leader getting done for DUI; ties in with not understanding your employees.

I'm not necessarily saying McD's set us back years - although he's taken 3 and a half years (or 7 trade periods) to get us to day 1 of a rebuild, so he arguably has (but we could arguably blame Dragic and Bledsoe for having such a good season even though that is, by definition, illogical) - I'm saying that on the basis of the above evidence, I have serious doubts that McD, and whatever coach him and Sarver bring in (Watson is a light weight unfortunately), will take us anywhere worthwhile.