Evidence For No TD

[Russ Smith]

waaaaa i'm a crybaby.. waaaaaaaaa waaaaa my team had the lead but couldn't stop the steelers game winning drive with 2 mins left in the game...

wwaaaaaa i'm gonna blame the refs because i think it'll make me feel better but in all honestly i just know i'm a pathetic crybaby.. waaaaaaaa..

You should know the guy you're criticizing readily admits he's not a Cards fans he's only here because he's a Kurt Warner fan.

 

[Covert Rain]

Bottom line is he never should have been that open in the corner. The defense should have stopped the Steelers.....and that pick should have never been thrown earlier. The team should not have set the record for most penalty yards in a Super Bowl.

A game is won or lost on one play. It's the accumulation of your play through the entire game. If you don't want the game to come down to a series or one play then you should have played better during the game.

Honestly, the Cards had their chances and were just outplayed. No shame in it. The Cards have much respect after this game. Now they need to build on it and get back there.

 

[lobo]

Im still having a hard time letting go of the play before half time.

Totally agree as that was a killer. Hightower going to his right tipped off the play that Harrison might go into coverage...for the team to sit in the locker room for a half hour after that and mount the comeback they did is a great testament to all!!

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Michael Silvers comments on the officiating

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_y...slug=ms-morningrush020209&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

First, an apology: Seahawks fans, I know I’ve been telling you to get over the calls that went against you in Super Bowl XL, but the flurry of flags Sunday night brought it all back, and now I once again feel your pain. Granted, many of the penalties against the Cardinals were deserved, and ultimately I don’t think the officiating cost either Arizona or Seattle a Super Bowl victory. Yet after Sunday, I can totally see how an objective observer would wonder whether the Steelers have some cosmic, unconscious hold on the hearts and minds of the zebras. Some examples: After Roethlisberger threw an incompletion on first-and-10 from the 50 midway through the third quarter, he was pushed in the back by Dansby, whose momentum appeared to carry him into the quarterback. The refs called a personal foul. Later that drive, on third-and-goal from the Arizona 9, Big Ben was about to get sacked and chucked the ball toward nobody in what seemed like a logical time for an intentional-grounding call. The officials didn’t flag him, ruling that he was outside the pocket – it looked pretty borderline to me. On the next play, Jeff Reed’s 27-yard field goal attempt, Adrian Wilson unintentionally ran into the holder, Mitch Berger, and a personal foul was called. It may have been legitimate, but things had become so one-sided that from that point on reporters in my section of the press box started conjuring up sarcastic fouls every time the Cards made a play: The defender threw the ballcarrier to the ground, resulting in a 15-yard penalty … Then, midway through the fourth quarter, on second-and-goal from the Pittsburgh 4, Warner threw an underneath pass to halfback Tim Hightower and got absolutely clocked by Harrison. The hit was far more egregious than Dansby’s push of Roethlisberger earlier, but no flag was thrown. Awful. Finally, after Holmes’ game-winning touchdown catch, his celebration – a LeBron James powder-throwing tribute – seemed to violate the rule against using the football as a prop, which could have resulted in a 15-yard penalty that would’ve forced Pittsburgh to kick off from its own 15. I’m not suggesting there was a conspiracy in Pittsburgh’s favor. I do believe, however, that this supposed all-star cast of officials had Ed Hochuli Disease: a tendency to make the game more about them than necessary. There were 11 penalties on the Cards for 106 yards, and seven for 56 on the Steelers.

Now here’s the real diatribe: On the penultimate play of the game, after Warner was hit by Woodley while seemingly trying to throw a pass, the play was ruled a fumble, recovered by Woodley – and the officials acted like they had a table waiting at Mons Venus and needed to get there by 11. For all I know, the play would not have been overturned, and perhaps the replay official was able to determine that conclusively in a very short period. But even if it were only for the sake of appearances, how could the officials not stop the game and go through the process of conducting a formal review? I mean, this is the league that brought you the Tuck Rule, a play whose reversal at the time of the replay review seemed utterly incomprehensible, until Walt Coleman informed us how little we knew about football. Speaking of which, maybe Warner tucked the ball at some point during the play in question; or, perhaps, a conclusive case could be made that his arm was going forward. Or maybe not, but at least slow it down and take a few good looks at the replay. Because, you know, it’s only the most important game of the season. Sure, only five seconds remained, but had there been a reversal, the ball would’ve moved from the Pittsburgh 44 to the 29, because a personal foul had been called on Woodley for taunting after the play. Hmmm, let’s see, Warner throwing up top to Fitzgerald from about his own 35? I’d say there’s a little bit better chance of completing that than your typical Hail Mary. Again, it’s quite possible that the fumble would’ve been upheld on replay, and all of this would then become moot. I’m just stunned that the officials didn’t even bother to hash it out.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

waaaaa i'm a crybaby.. waaaaaaaaa waaaaa my team had the lead but couldn't stop the steelers game winning drive with 2 mins left in the game...

wwaaaaaa i'm gonna blame the refs because i think it'll make me feel better but in all honestly i just know i'm a pathetic crybaby.. waaaaaaaa..

Your a dork

 

[moklerman]

You should know the guy you're criticizing readily admits he's not a Cards fans he's only here because he's a Kurt Warner fan.

Please tell me what led you to be a Cardinals fan. Is the first team a person roots for, possibly chosen at a very early age, the one they have to root for until they die?

There is no bigger fan of Whisenhunt than me. Fitzgerald, Boldin, Wilson, there are many players on this team that I hold in high regard and will continue to root for when Warner retires.

I'll never be a fan of the team as long as others have been fans but I'm not exactly a front-runner either. I've been here since '05 and through a nice handful of pretty horrible times. Wear your longtime allegiance with pride if you want but quit questioning my allegiance until I actually leave. Just because some Jeff Blake fan or whatever set some precedent for you guys doesn't mean you have some handle on every fan that steps foot around here.

If Bidwill(s), Graves, Green or whoever was running the team the way that it has been run in the past I would have a hard time supporting them once Warner left but this franchise is something to be proud of at this point and it's ridiculous to me that so many of the "real" fans go out of their way to persecute and run off anyone who hasn't been here since birth. If you think the Cardinals should only ever have the 12,000 people that stuck it out through the self-imposed losing by ownership then you're the one that's got a problem, not me for coming here because I followed Warner.

I've wanted nothing but team success for 4+ years and that includes Rams games, the team of my youth that is ingrained at base levels.

And if all of that venting isn't enough, I can boil it down to something unpleasant if it makes it easier to understand. Your post is insulting.

 

[BCEagle]

It really did look like a TD on the replay ... and the greatest catch ever made in a SB. There is really no shame in the way that the Cardinals lost.

 

[BCEagle]

http://www.steelersdepot.com/blog/2009/02/picture-of-santonio-holmes-with-2-two-feet-down-for-touchdown/

I wanted the Cardinals to win, but both feet are down. Let it go. It was a once in a lifetime catch.

 

[conraddobler]

This is my 100% honest opinion of the catch.

Given the rules and what I saw it was a no catch, factoring in super HD and all the whiz bang stuff they have and all the angles you can clearly see from one good angle he never gets both toes down.

It's so close honestly I myself will grant he should have the TD.

My beef is mainly that if a Cardinal catches that ball I think we all know it's going to be reversed.

 

[moklerman]

True or false:

Steelers benefited from the officials calls.

Cardinals needed calls to continually be corrected.

 

[Covert Rain]

Total crap. If the Cards were on the other end....the outcome would be the same. The rule states the evidence has to be irrefutable to reverse the call. The call on the field was TD. The play should have stood by rule.

Again, this one play didn't cost them the game and they had plenty of chances througout the game and that drive for that matter that could have negated the game coming down to that play.

 

[conraddobler]

What was crap was Whis having to burn a challenge, he had two remaining because he won the first one, to review an obviously stupid call about Warner fumbling.

Then having the exact same call not even be reviewed to end the game because they could just tell this time.

I'm not going to argue about the Holmes TD it was a prety catch and he deserves it and no one can say what happens even if he dosen't catch it, they could easily have scored on the next play even if he drops it, that call was the least of my worries.

 

[Covert Rain]

What was crap was Whis having to burn a challenge, he had two remaining because he won the first one, to review an obviously stupid call about Warner fumbling.

Then having the exact same call not even be reviewed to end the game because they could just tell this time.

I'm not going to argue about the Holmes TD it was a prety catch and he deserves it and no one can say what happens even if he dosen't catch it, they could easily have scored on the next play even if he drops it, that call was the least of my worries.

You can argue that one play all you want. Still doesn't erase the bad throw earlier. Still doesn't erase the most penalty yards in NFL history. Still doesn't erase the fact the Cards couldn't get the Steelers off the field in the 1st quarter or stop then at the end.

This play didn't lose the Super Bowl nor did the one at the end.

 

[conraddobler]

We lost I'm gettting over it just like everyone else.

Dosen't mean I have to like the bias I see, dosen't mean I think we lost because of it, dosen't mean anything but that it's there IMO.

I see the same things in Chiefs games and even in other games this year and that's perhaps where we should make bigger stinks out of it.

The officials had a horrible year, just butt awful and decided too many games, it's a widely held perception crossing other teams and cities.

The NFL has some freakin work to do and it's not just about my team it's about fairness and the truth and they've got some explaining to do on multiple fronts there IMO.

 

[moklerman]

The officials called a loose game on the Steelers and a ticky-tack game on the Cardinals. If you disagree you're not being honest with yourself.

 

[Shogun]

The officials called a loose game on the Steelers and a ticky-tack game on the Cardinals. If you disagree you're not being honest with yourself.

And if you don't agree that the Cardinals played sloppy and deserved most of those ticky-tack penalties you are being dishonest with themselves.

 

[daves]

http://www.steelersdepot.com/blog/2009/02/picture-of-santonio-holmes-with-2-two-feet-down-for-touchdown/

I wanted the Cardinals to win, but both feet are down. Let it go. It was a once in a lifetime catch.

That picture STILL doesn't convince me! It's tough (for me) to tell whether the right toe is touching the turf.

However, THIS picture does convince me that it was a TD: http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/FanBoy/45253

...dave

 

[Covert Rain]

And if you don't agree that the Cardinals played sloppy and deserved most of those ticky-tack penalties you are being dishonest with themselves.

+1

 

[anks106]

That picture STILL doesn't convince me! It's tough (for me) to tell whether the right toe is touching the turf.

However, THIS picture does convince me that it was a TD: http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/FanBoy/45253

...dave

Wow, that hurts to look at.. I thought it was a TD initially then was starting to wonder as no one had a still shot that was incontrovertible.. till now

 

[moklerman]

And if you don't agree that the Cardinals played sloppy and deserved most of those ticky-tack penalties you are being dishonest with themselves.

Out of the 11 penalties that were called I think 8 were correct. Throw in two reversals, a non-review and 2 crucial non-calls and it was a very poor effort by the officials. It isn't exactly a positive thing when the officials make almost as many mistakes as the teams on the field.

 

[conraddobler]

I'm not buying that you can tell from that shot the quaility of it is poor compared to the other shot, I'd need the same HD quality to tell.

Guys you have to realize I'm ok with the call now, I have shown it to two or three no biased people and they can't tell which I guess means it stands as a TD but that's assuming that's the HD shot of it and it's not.

I'm ok with the loss, it wouldn't really have meant we won if he just drops the ball, it was an awesome catch it's done, let's just move on.

 

[Mr. Boldin]

When Holmes had his right foot wrapped around his left he never touched the ground with the right. Now if Holmes dotted it before that and had possession is another story, but there are tons of pictures that clearly show Holmes never touched his right toe down while wrapped around his left.

That picture is at the same moment where in my thread I have the close up of his toe.

Anyway, whatever.

 

[DeVille]

Looks like a still of a toe down



btw, what about Fitz's fade that touched the ground... commentators didn't mention it at all, but, it was caught on his helmet and as he brought it in, he fell and it touched the ground. I'd post it, but, rules say i need 20 posts...

calls were missed and and over called both ways... take it and don't whine... appreciate that you guys made it to the big dance and hope Kurt comes back. You'll have another chance...

 

[DeVille]

Mr Boldin, look at the link, dude... a still can't show what happened THROUGHOUT the play. the link has a still of the toe CLEARLY down... no questions. the blogspot link... if you can't agree after that one, you've got some serious issues.

 

[moklerman]

btw, what about Fitz's fade that touched the ground... commentators didn't mention it at all, but, it was caught on his helmet and as he brought it in, he fell and it touched the ground. I'd post it, but, rules say i need 20 posts...

the ball can touch the ground as long as the receiver is in control and possession of the ball. I don't think there's any question Fitz had that ball.