Evidence For No TD

[moklerman]

I don't like the swearing, but honestly - it's not being defensive, it's sticking up for your team.

What exactly do you have to stick up for? Either the Steelers won it cleanly or there was questionable officiating. If there is no question about the calls then why argue? Arguing that there were no questionable calls is a real loss of credibility IMO.

I guess every call against the Steelers was the right call, every time they gave points back was okay and he's right about the holding call too.

Who is speaking in absolutes? The Cardinals earned a majority of the calls that went against them. But I can count 5 or more errors by the officials against the Cardinals. I don't recall anything flat out wrong called against the Steelers. Some close calls didn't go their way but I'm not talking about that on the Cardinals side of things either. Those things happen to both sides and usually balance out. I'm talking about flat out wrong calls or non-calls.

 

[Redsz]

I just want to get a gauge of everyone in this discussion.

-Should the "ball as a prop" non-call been flagged?
-Should the last play by the Cardinals been reviewed and judged by the referee or as is by the booth?

Those two questions will establish to me just how objective everyone is.

Absolutley. That was not a fumble as his arm was moving forward. The ref that was on Kurt got it wrong TWICE! Good god.

I'm sure the Cardinals will get some letter of apology that the team can use as toilet paper. Bleh.

 

[BCEagle]

You must be registered for see images attach

Well, the ball is touching the ground there, but I don't know.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

did you know the tip of the ball could touch the ground if the player is controlling it? Also if it was so blatant, why didn't your HC challenge it? Because it was a catch. I haven't been on here about the Homes catch. On TV,i thought he got his foot down. After the fact may show differently but it doesn't really matter. I suppose if the Cards had won, there would be about 700 threads on steeler boards about Fitz's catch.

 

[HookemCards]

did you know the tip of the ball could touch the ground if the player is controlling it? Also if it was so blatant, why didn't your HC challenge it? Because it was a catch. I haven't been on here about the Homes catch. On TV,i thought he got his foot down. After the fact may show differently but it doesn't really matter. I suppose if the Cards had won, there would be about 700 threads on steeler boards about Fitz's catch.

No, they wouldn't complain about anything. Thats below the "Steeler Nation", just ask Sixburgh Baby, he guarantees it.

 

[VaBeachGuy]

I've seen a similar thread someplace else talking about the called back TD for the Steelers, the QB sneak that Ben had called back. Their thread shows pics where Ben wasn't down, his knee never touched until after he was in the endzone. So according to their thread there were 4 points taken away from them on that play. So if that's true then one call makes up for the other.

Reality is that if you stop them from driving down the field to the 6 then this is never an issue.

 

[Mr. Boldin]

Sixburgh can stick up for his own team, but we cant when questioning many things, most noteably the nonreview of the last play of the biggest game of the year and the no call on Santonio's celebration. What are the odds that if that were TO the flag would have been in hand after he scored the TD just waiting to be thrown?

Say what you want about having to stick up about your team that now has 6 Super Bowl rings, when OUR team was blasted for the past 6 weeks by the national media about how terrible we were, only to come a few boneheaded plays away from defeating the Steelers and their "destiny", as some players put it after the game, of their 6th ring.

When the national media counts you out before the playoffs begin, calls you one of the worst Super Bowl teams ever and nit picks every playoff win you have to pull you down, can you come here and "stick up" for your team.

What a joke.

 

[moklerman]

Reality is that if you stop them from driving down the field to the 6 then this is never an issue.

No one can argue that but the Ben TD reversal should never have been a TD call in the first place and the officials got it right by accident. Ben was carried into the end zone by his lineman which should have been a penalty before it even went to review. I don't know if that's a loss of down but it might be.

 

[CaptTurbo]

Why is this thread here? Even if it was ruled no TD they woould have gotten it in the next play or two. Our defense was reeling. We got zero pressure, everyone was worn out. Our defense wasnt even upset they were content knowing they gave everything they had. I believe them.

 

[moklerman]

Why is this thread here? Even if it was ruled no TD they woould have gotten it in the next play or two.

Like they got a yard to get out of the end zone on two rushing attempts? There's a good chance you're right but if, and I'm not saying I think it was a bad call, but if it was ruled incomplete I'm certainly not 100% sure the Steelers would have punched it in. Overtime was a definite possibility.

 

[steeler tim]

I just want to get a gauge of everyone in this discussion.

-Should the "ball as a prop" non-call been flagged?
-Should the last play by the Cardinals been reviewed and judged by the referee or as is by the booth?

Those two questions will establish to me just how objective everyone is.

No, the "ball as a prop" should not have been flagged. Now you probably want to know why I think that. That happened well after the play and it was on the sidelines. You can do what you want on the sidelines.

Yes, I think the booth should have called for a review of the last play. That is not the job of the officials. They have no say in a booth review. Why didn't the booth call for a review? They must have clearly felt it was a fumble. Don't you think, for dramatic effect, the league would have wanted to see a hail mary on the last play? That would have made for better TV.

The Cards had a great season and for those that didn't give them respect ... they certainly should now. Hopefully we can meet next year and do it all over again

 

[VaBeachGuy]

No one can argue that but the Ben TD reversal should never have been a TD call in the first place and the officials got it right by accident. Ben was carried into the end zone by his lineman which should have been a penalty before it even went to review. I don't know if that's a loss of down but it might be.

But the thing is, there's people with 'photographic evidence' that it was a TD (I'm not saying it was mind you). The aiding the ball carrier thing is never ever called anymore. Think back to the Eagles-Giants divisional game and those 2 4th and 1 plays the Giants had, on both of those there were Giants players trying to help the runner advance. You see it in almost every game.

 

[coldsweat]

You all should just quit your jobs and go to work for the NFL. You all know all the rules and they dont.

 

[Mulli]

You all should just quit your jobs and go to work for the NFL. You all know all the rules and they dont.

If you don't like what you see here, go somewhere else.

 

[DeVille]

ww.steelersdepot.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/2ftzoom.jpg

I had to remove the first W because it wouldn't let me post a link...

can we put it to bed now?

OF COURSE, his foot was UP at some point... Holmes didn't ski through the end zone... but, all that matters is this pic... it TOUCHED. BOTH TOUCHED.

 

[Burg72]

I wouldn't post that with any pride there Sixburgh you must have wrote it.

However, I don't blame the officials for this loss. WE should have taken care of business. It irritates me we had to challenge twice to get the right calls but in the end all we had to do was stop that drive. Go back a bit further and let's not give them a pick 6 and we win.

We lost this game. It fricken sucks but we did. There will always be questions after every game especially one of this magnitude but it is what it is.

We were within 2 minutes of being world champs...

Not bad for a team nobody thought should be there. Let's build on that and look forward not behind.

It sucks, but I agree with AZcards21, we still had it in our grasp and we let it go. I feel like I just got dump by my girlfriend but we should of taken care of business. The booth had plenty of time to see he (Warner) didn't have control when his arm started moving forward and that's why the game wasn't stopped for a review. It sucks but we need to move on and look forward to next year and hope the organization keep the core together and build upon this and break the latest trend of the runner ups not making the playoffs the next year.

 

[Russ Smith]

Absolutley. That was not a fumble as his arm was moving forward. The ref that was on Kurt got it wrong TWICE! Good god.

I'm sure the Cardinals will get some letter of apology that the team can use as toilet paper. Bleh.

He has to have control of the ball though and my personal opinion is he didn't the ball had been jarred loose, Kurt's arm coming forward made the ball go forward but he didn't have control of it.

I would have liked a longer replay of course but I do think what I saw they got the call right.

 

[Russ Smith]

I've seen a similar thread someplace else talking about the called back TD for the Steelers, the QB sneak that Ben had called back. Their thread shows pics where Ben wasn't down, his knee never touched until after he was in the endzone. So according to their thread there were 4 points taken away from them on that play. So if that's true then one call makes up for the other.

Reality is that if you stop them from driving down the field to the 6 then this is never an issue.

THe problem is that play WAS reviewed and the angles we saw clearly showed the knee was down. The problem was they didn't conclusively show the location of the ball when the knee was down. SO the ref essentially pieced them together and decided Ben wasn't in, which frankly I agreed with.

It didn't cost Pitt points they could have gone for it on 4th down I was actually surprised they didn't given all the momentum they had and with a QB that big to sneak it.

ANd of course Cards fans could point out that OL's are not allowed to push or pull the ball carrier into the endzone which happened in this game too.

There are a million what ifs, it's pointless, Pittsburgh won, Cards should have stopped them on the last drive.

 

[Russ Smith]

No, the "ball as a prop" should not have been flagged. Now you probably want to know why I think that. That happened well after the play and it was on the sidelines. You can do what you want on the sidelines.

Yes, I think the booth should have called for a review of the last play. That is not the job of the officials. They have no say in a booth review. Why didn't the booth call for a review? They must have clearly felt it was a fumble. Don't you think, for dramatic effect, the league would have wanted to see a hail mary on the last play? That would have made for better TV.

The Cards had a great season and for those that didn't give them respect ... they certainly should now. Hopefully we can meet next year and do it all over again

now you're just making stuff up Tim. Donovan McNabb was on the sideline when he picked up the phone and he got flagged.

The ball as a prop is a rule, and how long after the play is irrelevant because the game was still running.

I personally was ok with it not being called, I hate the celebration rule, but by rule, it was a penalty because the rule specifically says you can't use the ball as a prop.

 

[coldsweat]

Don't leave the game in the hand of the ref's.

 

[steeler tim]

now you're just making stuff up Tim. Donovan McNabb was on the sideline when he picked up the phone and he got flagged.

The ball as a prop is a rule, and how long after the play is irrelevant because the game was still running.

I personally was ok with it not being called, I hate the celebration rule, but by rule, it was a penalty because the rule specifically says you can't use the ball as a prop.

McNabb would have been fine if he had gone to the Eagles bench and used the phone. He immediately went on the opponents sideline for his act. Different circumstances. Under your definition every time a player held their helmet up high to celebrate a big play they could be flagged. The Steelers would be flagged multiple times in every game if that were true since players regularly twirl the terrible towel. Holmes didn't do his routine until after the replay results were in and the steelers were lining up for the extra point. I don't even think an official could see him.

I also think the rule is stupid except in a case like McNabb's. To me to go on the opponents sideline or even when TO went to stomp on the Dallas star at midfield is unsportsmanlike. I also think the 'taking off the helmet rule' is stupid. Who cares as long as it isn't safety related.

In case it hasn't been said enough ... props to the Cardinals on the excellent season. I think they are poised to have many more.

 

[green machine]

Don't leave the game in the hand of the ref's.

I agree, and don't think the refs cost the Cards the game, but it is always easier to take this side of the argument when you're not the one who feels wronged by the zebras.

 

[spyboots]

http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2009/02/01/sports/0201-SUPERBOWL_12.html

 

[moklerman]

The Holmes TD catch is a perfect example of why I, and many others, are pissed. To me, the call could have gone either way. Since it was ruled a TD live, I don't think there was enough to overturn it. If it had been ruled incomplete, I could see just as much of an argument for not overturning that call. I think it's too close to take away. I say good catch.

The problem is, the officials took all the time in the world to make sure they got it right. They didn't leave it up to the booth official. They gave all the gazillions of people watching an opportunity to see every angle and slo-mo and NBC zoom or whatever. On the Cardinals critical play, the did not. And to compound that, I would really like to agree that it was clear that Warner did indeed lose control of the ball and just slapped it forward by accident.

I don't see it that way and I think it was close enough that the referee might agree with me. If the apparent excitement and rush to start the celebration wasn't a factor and the play was reviewed with the time that it deserves, the multiple angles, the NBC zoom, etc. I think a case could be made that while the defender gets a nice slap at the ball, his hand comes off of the ball and Warner still has it in his grip. The Steeler has his arm on Warner's arm as it stars coming forward and that's where he lets it go. At the very least, it's up to interpretation when his arm started coming forward. Warner maintains control for some period of time and it could have been viewed either way.

It deserved the same scrutiny that the Holmes TD got.

 

[LukesDad88]

The Holmes TD catch is a perfect example of why I, and many others, are pissed. To me, the call could have gone either way. Since it was ruled a TD live, I don't think there was enough to overturn it. If it had been ruled incomplete, I could see just as much of an argument for not overturning that call. I think it's too close to take away. I say good catch.

The problem is, the officials took all the time in the world to make sure they got it right. They didn't leave it up to the booth official. They gave all the gazillions of people watching an opportunity to see every angle and slo-mo and NBC zoom or whatever. On the Cardinals critical play, the did not. And to compound that, I would really like to agree that it was clear that Warner did indeed lose control of the ball and just slapped it forward by accident.

I don't see it that way and I think it was close enough that the referee might agree with me. If the apparent excitement and rush to start the celebration wasn't a factor and the play was reviewed with the time that it deserves, the multiple angles, the NBC zoom, etc. I think a case could be made that while the defender gets a nice slap at the ball, his hand comes off of the ball and Warner still has it in his grip. The Steeler has his arm on Warner's arm as it stars coming forward and that's where he lets it go. At the very least, it's up to interpretation when his arm started coming forward. Warner maintains control for some period of time and it could have been viewed either way.

It deserved the same scrutiny that the Holmes TD got.

No doubt it should have been reviewed.