EVT: Suns talking to Bulls/Lakers

[green machine]

Marion has shown already that he wont be the player that helps wins us a championship or carry the load when we need him most, so why does everyone keep pinning our title hopes on him?

He becomes the 7th option in the playoffs against good teams, so basically alot of you guys just want him here for the regular season?

How many times has it been proven that the regular season wins mean nothing?

What has finishing in the top 3 for the last 3 years done for us?

So it comes down to this...

Marion in the regular season putting up his 20/10, us finishing with a top 3 record then Marion does his regular choke job after the first round. We have to rely on Amare, Nash and whoever else steps up to win our first title.

Thomas & Thabo coming in and learning the ropes while contributing whatever they can. We still make the playoffs as a top 5 team in the west. We have to rely on Amare, Nash and whoever else steps up to win our first title.

One way or another our only chance of a title is Amare and Nash dominating.

But with this trade atleast we have a bright future and rid ourselves of a grumpy choker that makes max money.

Bravo.
:notworthy

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Please stop with the nonsense.


First it is "Marion is no good in the playoffs." That is proven to be untrue.

Then it is "Marion is no good after the first round." Another untruth.

Then it is "Marion is no good against the Spurs and the Mavercks"

False.

Then it is "Marion is the 7th option"

Also false. Seriously. If you don't take the time to look up the stats for yourself then just stop adding nonsense.

Second round averages last year (San Antonio):

15.7 PPG 10.5 RPG 3rd leading scorer, 2nd rebounder

2006 Conferance Finals (Dallas)

16.8 PPG 13.2 RPG 3rd leading scorer, 1st rebounder

Cly2tw, your signature has been proven to be a lie. Please change it. It never...EVER happened and was nothing but message board nonsense.

 

[green machine]

Please stop with the nonsense.


First it is "Marion is no good in the playoffs." That is proven to be untrue.

Then it is "Marion is no good after the first round." Another untruth.

Then it is "Marion is no good against the Spurs and the Mavercks"

False.

Then it is "Marion is the 7th option"

Also false. Seriously. If you don't take the time to look up the stats for yourself then just stop adding nonsense.

Second round averages last year (San Antonio):

15.7 PPG 10.5 RPG 3rd leading scorer, 2nd rebounder

2006 Conferance Finals (Dallas)

16.8 PPG 13.2 RPG 3rd leading scorer, 1st rebounder

Cly2tw, your signature has been proven to be a lie. Please change it. It never...EVER happened and was nothing but message board nonsense.

You do realize that the scoring numbers, at least, are below his regular season averages for those respective seasons, right?

 

[mribnik]

You do realize that the scoring numbers, at least, are below his regular season averages for those respective seasons, right?

Probably because Amare's scoring averages go up in the playoffs. Makes sense to me.

 

[cly2tw]

Cly2tw, your signature has been proven to be a lie. Please change it. It never...EVER happened and was nothing but message board nonsense.

Not correct. I vividly remember those moments when Marion was covered by Terry, Harris, and Parker, in the last two years playoffs and he couldn't do nothing of any use out of the mismatches.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

The Suns don't have a lot of time to sit here and watch Tyrus Thomas develop.

I would rather take my chances with Marion if he's okay to stay here one more year.

Tyrus is going to blow up this year. Well he will at least be a good contributing rotation player, and show a lot of things that give hope for a lot more in the years to come.

Great player to line up next to Amare for the future

 

[cly2tw]

I'd like Marion, Banks, Pike, Marks shipped out for Thomas, Sefolosha, Cook and PJ Brown to a contract that just makes it within 125%.

Lakers should get Gordon, Marion, Noah, Banks for Kobe and Cook. Bulls get Kobe, Pike, Marks.

Everybody should be happy then.

 

[green machine]

Probably because Amare's scoring averages go up in the playoffs. Makes sense to me.

Amare didn't play in the 2006 playoffs vs. the Mavs.

Also, I prefer a player who steps up their game in the playoffs, not one who shrinks from the pressure.

 

[mribnik]

Amare didn't play in the 2006 playoffs vs. the Mavs.

Also, I prefer a player who steps up their game in the playoffs, not one who shrinks from the pressure.

No, but Diaw did. I believe Marion had an excellent series against the Clippers though, didn't he? Everyone considers Marion to be the ultimate role player. It makes sense then that his scoring drops a little bit in the playoffs as the scoring is distributed more to players who can create their own shots.

In the postseason that year Marion averaged the following...

20.4 points, 11.7 rebounds, 1.85 steals and 1.15 blocks, 52.5% shooting, 33% from 3

Last year...

16.9 points, 10.4 rebounds, 1.45 steals, 1.73 blocks, 50% shooting 35.3%
from 3.

Three years ago...

17.6 points, 11.8 rebounds, 1.4 steals 1.73 blocks, 48.4% shooting, 41.9% from 3.

Edit: Actually, Marion's numbers in the playoffs are pretty damn close to his regular season numbers. They don't go up like Amare's do, but that's to be expected.

 

[nashman]

Marion haters like to say he drops off for the post season but it simply isn't true. He is a consistant performer for the suns people dislike him for whining and making too much money. Although we are a weaker team without him, for some reason people think otherwise. Keep Marion and make a run at the title, we could have had it last season if we don't get screwed by stern and the NBA.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Not correct. I vividly remember those moments when Marion was covered by Terry, Harris, and Parker, in the last two years playoffs and he couldn't do nothing of any use out of the mismatches.

We had multiple posters go through the entire game and not once was Marion guarded by Parker. It's a myth and one you started.

I can not stress how much this myth has been debunked. You need to stop spreading myths on this board.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

You do realize that the scoring numbers, at least, are below his regular season averages for those respective seasons, right?

He shot 52.1% against the Spurs. He was down 2 points from his scoring average but his shooting percentage was fine. 1 basket. That's it. That isn't disappearing as people like to claim.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Edit: Actually, Marion's numbers in the playoffs are pretty damn close to his regular season numbers. They don't go up like Amare's do, but that's to be expected.

And here is the truth. His numbers are virtually identical to his season average. He averaged a freaking double double against the Spurs and shot over 50%. That isn't disappearing.

What's especially amazing about his rebounding numbers is he got those guarding the backcourt, which greatly limits his defensive rebounding opportunities.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I'd like Marion, Banks, Pike, Marks shipped out for Thomas, Sefolosha, Cook and PJ Brown to a contract that just makes it within 125%.

Lakers should get Gordon, Marion, Noah, Banks for Kobe and Cook. Bulls get Kobe, Pike, Marks.

Everybody should be happy then.

Are you talking about Brian Cook? He is absolutely worthless on the basketball court. You know this right?

 

[mribnik]

Are you talking about Brian Cook? He is absolutely worthless on the basketball court. You know this right?

Defensively I'd agree. Offensively though, I think he'd fit in the James Jones role quite nicely. Just sit him out at the 3-point line and the defense would have to guard him. This really only works for the Suns though.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Defensively I'd agree. Offensively though, I think he'd fit in the James Jones role quite nicely. Just sit him out at the 3-point line and the defense would have to guard him. This really only works for the Suns though.

He was -11 in the Lakers game the other night. He absolutely can't guard anyone. I mean he would be more productive than Pike, but they just resigned him to a long term deal right?

 

[mribnik]

He was -11 in the Lakers game the other night. He absolutely can't guard anyone. I mean he would be more productive than Pike, but they just resigned him to a long term deal right?

Oh I definitely agree about his defense. I'm just saying he's not completely useless, especially if he were on the Suns.

 

[NastyOne]

And here is the truth. His numbers are virtually identical to his season average. He averaged a freaking double double against the Spurs and shot over 50%. That isn't disappearing.

What's especially amazing about his rebounding numbers is he got those guarding the backcourt, which greatly limits his defensive rebounding opportunities.

Forget Marions rebounding, cause if we wanted a monster rebounder we could've gone out there and got a Reggie Evans for a fraction of the cost.

I want Marion to show the hell up when we need him in big games.

People bring up all Marions post season numbers, but when you just look at his game log in the playoffs Versus the Mavs and Spurs over the last 3 years its ugly as hell.

The only reason his numbers arent totally pathetic against these two teams is because he always seems to sneak out a decent game or two against them.

For the highest paid player on the team i expect way more than that from Marion.

Since hes joined the league hes done nothing to improve his game, and thats the main reason hes so easy to shutdown when we get deep into the playoffs. You cant be 6'7 and not beable to shoot or dribble and be considered a star player while making the max and complaining about respect. hes just a glorified junkman.

The only thing reliable about Marion in a big game is his rebounding, and like i said we could get someone like Reggie Evans for that.

Dont get me wrong, i love the way he gets things done in the regular season and even the early rounds of the playoffs when weaker teams dont focus on shutting him down.... but thats about it. Thats not gonna help us win a title.

 

[D-Dogg]

Brian Cook?

I'll trade you Brian Cook for a Phoenix Suns Logo Ball.

I might even throw in a draft pick to spice it up for you.


He SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKS!

 

[green machine]

He shot 52.1% against the Spurs. He was down 2 points from his scoring average but his shooting percentage was fine. 1 basket. That's it. That isn't disappearing as people like to claim.

Let's look at Marion's games vs. the Spurs last year:

Game 1: 7/12 for 16 points and 6 rebounds.

Game 2: 2/4 for 5 points and 10 rebounds.

Game 3: 11/21 for 26 points and 7 rebounds.

Game 4: 4/8 for 12 points and 12 rebounds.

Game 5: 9/16 for 24 points and 17 rebounds.

Game 6: 5/12 for 11 points and 11 rebounds.

Consistent? Hardly. 3 games substantially lower then his average, another one a little below, and two games of actual offensive production, both losses.

 

[TucsonDevil]

Brian Cook?

He SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKS!

 

[mribnik]

Forget Marions rebounding, cause if we wanted a monster rebounder we could've gone out there and got a Reggie Evans for a fraction of the cost.

I want Marion to show the hell up when we need him in big games.

People bring up all Marions post season numbers, but when you just look at his game log in the playoffs Versus the Mavs and Spurs over the last 3 years its ugly as hell.

The only reason his numbers arent totally pathetic against these two teams is because he always seems to sneak out a decent game or two against them.

For the highest paid player on the team i expect way more than that from Marion.

Since hes joined the league hes done nothing to improve his game, and thats the main reason hes so easy to shutdown when we get deep into the playoffs. You cant be 6'7 and not beable to shoot or dribble and be considered a star player while making the max and complaining about respect. hes just a glorified junkman.

The only thing reliable about Marion in a big game is his rebounding, and like i said we could get someone like Reggie Evans for that.

Dont get me wrong, i love the way he gets things done in the regular season and even the early rounds of the playoffs when weaker teams dont focus on shutting him down.... but thats about it. Thats not gonna help us win a title.

Against the Mavs and the Spurs over the last 3 years Marion has had one bad series. Even though, his production could not be replaced by Reggie Evans. That series was in '05 against the Spurs.

In the previous series that year against the Mavs, he averaged 23.3 points, 12.17 rebounds, 1.5 steals and 1.8 blocks. That series contained quite a few great games by Marion, not just the 38,16,2, 1 performance in the series clinching game when Amare fouled out. Whoops.

16.83, 13.17, 1.85, 1.17 against the Mavs 2 years ago. If you're going to say that he often has great game that skews the numbers, you can say that about a bad game as well. Still, these numbers are great all around numbers and can only be replaced by a few players in the league.

I already mentioned last years numbers so I won't go into it. He's had a couple bad games in the last 3 playoff appearances, mostly against the Spurs. He's had quite a few excellent games and plenty of games that match or surpass his regular season numbers.

 

[mribnik]

Let's look at Marion's games vs. the Spurs last year:

Game 1: 7/12 for 16 points and 6 rebounds.

Game 2: 2/4 for 5 points and 10 rebounds.

Game 3: 11/21 for 26 points and 7 rebounds.

Game 4: 4/8 for 12 points and 12 rebounds.

Game 5: 9/16 for 24 points and 17 rebounds.

Game 6: 5/12 for 11 points and 11 rebounds.

Consistent? Hardly. 3 games substantially lower then his average, another one a little below, and two games of actual offensive production, both losses.

LOL. So you're complaining that we should get rid of Marion because in the two games the Suns won against the Spurs he didn't play well? I thought the problem was that the Suns lose because of Marion?

BTW, Nash had 3 horrible shooting games against the Spurs as well.

 

[green machine]

LOL. So you're complaining that we should get rid of Marion because in the two games the Suns won against the Spurs he didn't play well? I thought the problem was that the Suns lose because of Marion?

BTW, Nash had 3 horrible shooting games against the Spurs as well.

No, I'm saying that like another poster before me said, Marion's awful playoff series' usually look less-awful because he sandwiches a random good game in there that inflates the numbers.

My point is I don't feel the Suns would be doomed without Marion, and if they get the right guys in return, I think the team would be better off.

 

[mribnik]

No, I'm saying that like another poster before me said, Marion's awful playoff series' usually look less-awful because he sandwiches a random good game in there that inflates the numbers.

My point is I don't feel the Suns would be doomed without Marion, and if they get the right guys in return, I think the team would be better off.

That statement is true for any player in the league. I don't think the Suns would be doomed without Nash if they got the right guys in return. The reason Marion hasn't been traded yet is because it's that hard for the Suns to get the right guys in return.

Marion has had one bad playoff series against the Spurs three years ago. Last years series against the Spurs and the prior years' series against the Mavs were very close to his regular season numbers with slight declines in points but improvements in rebounding. Against the Mavs 3 years ago he was above his averages in both.