Ex-Card Jackson says Green rules with fear

[Russ Smith]

As for the difference between Starks situation and Dex... I think the main thing is attitude. What did Dex do in the locker room. Did he have the right attitude? Judging from his comments and his rep as a talker I would say he didnt have the right attitude.

Disagree, there were probably 5 major articles last year in camp about how quickly Dex had become a leader on the field. Talker yes, but he was encouraging everyone in practice, in the lockerroom, in games. I didn't hear one negative comment about Dex as a leader etc.

The thing with Green is he is in charge, and he doesn't want to "inherit" leadership, he wants his guys and his leaders. 2 of the leaders he inherited were Kendall and Dex, they're gone, it's not a coincidence.

 

[clif]

Disagree, there were probably 5 major articles last year in camp about how quickly Dex had become a leader on the field. Talker yes, but he was encouraging everyone in practice, in the lockerroom, in games. I didn't hear one negative comment about Dex as a leader etc.

The thing with Green is he is in charge, and he doesn't want to "inherit" leadership, he wants his guys and his leaders. 2 of the leaders he inherited were Kendall and Dex, they're gone, it's not a coincidence.

I dont disagree with you about the punk part. I still think he came into this year with an injured back and maybe didn't give off the right vibe, DG didnt like it, so Dex felt disrespected and the situation worsened.

 

[Russ Smith]

I dont disagree with you about the punk part. I still think he came into this year with an injured back and maybe didn't give off the right vibe, DG didnt like it, so Dex felt disrespected and the situation worsened.

My guess is Green came in with the idea of we're going to run a brutally tough OTA and camp to weed the weak out, Dex was hurt, so Green decided he was the weak. But Green at the same time openly talked about slowly bringing back Starks, seemed an odd contrast.

You watch at some point we'll hear Dex had a run in with Solomon in a debate over who should start at QB and why did we pick Fitz

 

[CardinalChris]

Maybe trashing is a harsh word, but the love comment combined with the fear (again, is it fear or discipline?) leads to something bad happening. Yeah, he's talking trash about an ex coach. If you imply how poor of a coach he is, you reflect poorly on the organization.

Now, had Dexter said "Denny runs his team in a disciplinarian way that I just didn't agree with" fine, but his comments lead to "He's a jerk, the organzation will fail because of it" THAT'S bashing IMO

 

[DKCards]

Disagree, there were probably 5 major articles last year in camp about how quickly Dex had become a leader on the field. Talker yes, but he was encouraging everyone in practice, in the lockerroom, in games. I didn't hear one negative comment about Dex as a leader etc.

The thing with Green is he is in charge, and he doesn't want to "inherit" leadership, he wants his guys and his leaders. 2 of the leaders he inherited were Kendall and Dex, they're gone, it's not a coincidence.

Russ, I think you are on to something. When a business is failing who gets replaced, the leaders do. When the Cards were failing who got replaced, the coaches. Well Green took it one step further. He took the leader of the offense and the leader of the defense and got rid of both of them. He wanted this team to be a completely different team with a completely different mind frame. If you can't replace everyone you replace the leaders. This could have been in his planning from day one. He just had to wait for the right timing to get the most effect out of it.

 

[earthsci]

(again, is it fear or discipline?)

...and to take it one step further, isn't there fear involved in discipline. Children won't break their parents rules because they are afraid of the punishment.

 

[joeshmo]

Joe where did Kendall talk crap? I haven't heard it,

Russ he who forgets, I evened PM'ed you by your request with quotes from Kendall, so I am not going to bring it up again.

 

[100%CardsFan]

I think me and Russ are the only people who remember Dex playing his heart and soul out last year and single handley winning game for us with the some of the best stats as a FS in the NFL...But how quick some of you forget once Denny doesnt like him

 

[CardinalChris]

In no way do I respect Dex as a player or what he did. I just don't respect him for what he said. That's all. Nothing all, nothing less. I just think it is poor taste to be a guy who doesn't fit into a team's "new direction" and to criticise in the media that old team. It almost just seems like his ego is a little annoyed with people thinking he got cut because he couldn't play, so he talks trash. I don't respect that. I am in agreement with both of you, Dex and Wilson would have been great this year. However, a little spring cleaning was in order also.

 

[Skkorpion]

Okay, folks, here's the deal:

1. Dexter had a back injury. Or did he? That's the crux of the matter. In six months he practiced half of one session, then got angry when Denny Green felt he had to move on and name a starter.

2. There was no injury settlement and without one a team may not cut a player who is injured. So you figure it out.

We'll never know what transpired but my guess is this: Dexter didn't want to go through the physical minicamps, so he was "injured". I remember him alluding to being okay to practice when it mattered.

Then Denny Green pissed him off when he figured out what was happening so Dexter decided to force his way out of here. Denny obliged but got even with him by putting Dexter on IR first, forcing Dexter to prove he wasn't hurt by agreeing to no injury settlement.

Green won. Dexter won. It's over. We saved salary, Dexter got out.

 

[joeshmo]

2. There was no injury settlement and without one a team may not cut a player who is injured. So you figure it out.

Skorp thanks for the insight and agree that your scenerio sounds the most logical.

But for any player on IR to be cut regardless if they are healthy or not they must have agreed to an injury settlement. Cant find the article but there was and injury settlement of which there was no money involved. The Cards told Jackons if he wanted to be cut he had to accept a settlement for no money, he wanted out so bad that is exactly what he did.

 

[100%CardsFan]

Dexter was injured. After mini camp we hung out and about every 10 minutes he would grab his back and say aaahhhh. Me and Dex were talking to females and he would even grab his back in pain....there is no question that Dex was injured. I guess the only question was how long was he injured.

 

[conraddobler]

What seems funny to me is that people can question any kind of gutting of a team that was 4 and 12 and should have actually been the worst team in football by record.

Now here come the arguements for trading players not just cutting them etc etc but bottom line is a new coach decided they weren't wanted or needed even if they could play their attitudes were unsatifactory by his definition and they were removed.

Green said the first thing that had to change was the attitude and mentality of the team. He cut the herd from that perspective and I am sure as Skorp said it evolved over time on some.

When players have a beef with something and want to be stubborn with all the smart.. or should I say savy agents these days it's almost impossible to trade them because the agents broadcast to everyone the situation and people just wait til the player is cut.

This gives the agent brand new bonus money and new deals to make money on and is at least revenue neutral for the agents most of the time but in the end they get to look like heros to future and present clients.

Green saved us money and also got what he wanted and in the end it's hard to argue with if he turns the program around.

 

[Russ Smith]

Russ he who forgets, I evened PM'ed you by your request with quotes from Kendall, so I am not going to bring it up again.

But it wasn't what i'd call crap Joe.

I guess it's semantics, to me crap would be like TO trashing Garcia, or Rice trashing the Cards, or Tim McDonald when he left etc.

I didn't see anything in what you wrote where Kendall was saying anything that we haven't already heard. I think what was said did explain why he and Green didn't get along, but I wouldn't call it talking crap about the organization or Green.

Semantics I guess.

 

[red desert]

I don't feel sorry for him I do think it's wrong for people to launch character assassinations on the guy just because Dennis Green released him, and then again when he says something about Green that's pretty universally believed to be true.

If he said that team sucks, they don't know how to win, they're lazy, Josh is inaccurate and can't beat a blitz, that would be sour grapes. He didnt' say that.

What he said.

 

[Russ Smith]

Okay, folks, here's the deal:

1. Dexter had a back injury. Or did he? That's the crux of the matter. In six months he practiced half of one session, then got angry when Denny Green felt he had to move on and name a starter.

2. There was no injury settlement and without one a team may not cut a player who is injured. So you figure it out.

QUOTE]

look Skorp that sounds logical, but so does this.

Green and the Cards put Dex on IR, you are not allowed to stash healthy players on IR, it's a violation, the NFL watches it. So I can just as easily say the fact that he was on IR proves he was injured, as you can say no monetary settlement means he wasn't hurt.

My guess is he WAS hurt, figured he'd be back during teh season. Green wasn't happy with him for whatever reason, and "benched him". Dex didn't like it, spoke out, so green waited and then put him on IR so he couldn't play the whole year. Eventually Dex' back got better, he realized to play this year he had to be cut, so he agreed to zero money to get out of Dodge.

Remember Gruden is saying he hopes Dex is able to play right away, which implies he is saying if he's healthy enough and in shape.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Dex played hard for us last year. No question. He was probably the defensive MVP.

And, no one will probably ever know exactly what happened between him and Green. It could have been anything. I don't have too much sympathy for Dex because he made A LOT of cash here. Soon, he'll be drawing paychecks from another team. He landed on his feet, and he's ok. Nobody in the Cards organization trashed him.

So we could have called it even, and moved on.

But nope. Dex, instead of saying, "I have no comment about the Cardinals", or "Everything worked out for the better" said some things that crossed the line. He had to go running his mouth. And thats not cool Dex.

Have Berry and Macklin been running their mouths about their former teams?

How about Zellner and Hambrick?

Bashing your previous employer serves no purpose except to upset people. Its unprofessional and stupid.

 

[joeshmo]

Bashing your previous employer serves no purpose except to upset people. Its unprofessional and stupid.

At least you get it.

 

[ajcardfan]

I would submit that there is a third possibility between Russ' and Skkorp's. That is Jackson is in denial about how bad his back really is. He thinks he can go, and the Cards and Green think he has a serious, long term issue only correctable by surgery. This is what I felt was the problem all along. When you can't go more than six months after the season was over, you have a serious back issue. 100% 's story would seem to back this up.

 

[Cheesebeef]

What seems funny to me is that people can question any kind of gutting of a team that was 4 and 12 and should have actually been the worst team in football by record.

Now here come the arguements for trading players not just cutting them etc etc but bottom line is a new coach decided they weren't wanted or needed even if they could play their attitudes were unsatifactory by his definition and they were removed.

Green said the first thing that had to change was the attitude and mentality of the team. He cut the herd from that perspective and I am sure as Skorp said it evolved over time on some.

When players have a beef with something and want to be stubborn with all the smart.. or should I say savy agents these days it's almost impossible to trade them because the agents broadcast to everyone the situation and people just wait til the player is cut.

This gives the agent brand new bonus money and new deals to make money on and is at least revenue neutral for the agents most of the time but in the end they get to look like heros to future and present clients.

Green saved us money and also got what he wanted and in the end it's hard to argue with if he turns the program around.

ding! ding! ding! ding! We have a winner!

 

[Russ Smith]

I would submit that there is a third possibility between Russ' and Skkorp's. That is Jackson is in denial about how bad his back really is. He thinks he can go, and the Cards and Green think he has a serious, long term issue only correctable by surgery. This is what I felt was the problem all along. When you can't go more than six months after the season was over, you have a serious back issue. 100% 's story would seem to back this up.

He may but if that's the case you wonder why Tampa picked him up and has cleared him?

 

[ajcardfan]

He may but if that's the case you wonder why Tampa picked him up and has cleared him?

We'll see if he can finish the season. I doubt we'll see him on the field Jan. 2.

 

[Russ Smith]

But nope. Dex, instead of saying, "I have no comment about the Cardinals", or "Everything worked out for the better" said some things that crossed the line. He had to go running his mouth. And thats not cool Dex.

Have Berry and Macklin been running their mouths about their former teams?

How about Zellner and Hambrick?

Bashing your previous employer serves no purpose except to upset people. Its unprofessional and stupid.

Berry and Macklin chose to leave, it was their decision from the get go. Dex may have at some point decided he wanted out and asked for his release, that appears clear, but he wanted to be here at some point, he said so more than once.

Hambrick WALKED OUT OF CAMP as a Raider right before the trade, not exactly a professional move. Hambrick and Zellner were both going to be cut for play before we traded for them , of course they're not trashing Oakland they were probably thrilled to be traded and given another chance, if they'd been cut, odds are they would have been looking for jobs quite a bit longer given their reps at the time. Green gave them a chance and they've jumped all over that chance to our benefit.

Jax was put on IR when he apparently didn't think he needed to be, we have no idea if he did or not, but his situation is different than the others you mention.

If AJ is right we'll know soon enough when his back gives out again.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Hambrick WALKED OUT OF CAMP as a Raider right before the trade, not exactly a professional move.

Yet, despite all that ill-will, has Hambrick publically bashed his former club? I don't believe he has. But, Jackson felt the need to do so. To what end?

 

[Russ Smith]

Yet, despite all that ill-will, has Hambrick publically bashed his former club? I don't believe he has. But, Jackson felt the need to do so. To what end?

Because the Raiders didn't mistreat Hambrick. He'd never played for them, they picked him up, by his own admission he was in horrible shape, didn't play, and was going to be cut. He walked out in protest, the team arranged a trade for him.

Dexter's situation was different, he HAD played here, played well, was a valuable member of the team, and felt like Green was just discarding him when he wanted to be here. Hambrick didn't want to be in Oakland, that's why he walked out, he didn't want to not play.