Expectations for Bowles

[AsUpRoDiGy]

Not sure if a poll like this has been brought up yet, and if so, I apologize. Fairly easy question -- with Bowles as our new DC, should we expect comparable results to Horton's D? I personally wasn't elated with the hire, but Bowles seems to have a good coaching pedigree within the Parcells' system. So what are your expectations for the Defense under Bowles?

 

[BigRedRage]

has has elite talent, I assume comperable. Maybe a small step back for this yr.

 

[Goldfield]

I'm am an optimistic person so I hope he does well. But Horton made a huge impact. I don't see how anyone could fill those shoes.

I do like that Bowels scheme will fit into Dockets skill set more.

 

[Jetstream Green]

You should really add more of a realistic choice, such as 'below last year but adequate'

 

[AzStevenCal]

I went for worse but I have no confidence in my selection, I could have just picked blindly and been as comfortable with it. I would have rather voted for "ask me again after week 3 of preseason".

Steve

 

[52brandon]

has has elite talent, I assume comperable. Maybe a small step back for this yr.

pretty much my thoughts. I think the players will carry a lot over that they learned from Horton. He was a great DC and I wish we still had him, but I think Bowles will do just fine


in the big picture though, I expect the D to take a small step backwards in overall talent. BUT I expect their stats to be better. I know it doesn't make much sense reading that, but I think our offense will be significantly improved, which leads to our D getting more rest and being able to play harder. While I don't expect Bowles to be as good as Horton, I also don't expect his job to be as hard

 

[Finito]

No one in recent Arizona sports memory has become more overrated than Ray Horton, yes he was good but let's be real here the defense was not even top ten we finished 12th overall and a miserable 27th in rushing defense.

I think he's going to be just fine

 

[52brandon]

No one in recent Arizona sports memory has become more overrated than Ray Horton, yes he was good but let's be real here the defense was not even top ten we finished 12th overall and a miserable 27th in rushing defense.

I think he's going to be just fine

they were exhausted and beat up towards the end of the season. He improved the D a LOT. But the offense was so terrible that the D was constantly on the field. That's what I mean by the stats improving this year even though I don't think they will play much better

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

Much worse... No Rhodes, No Wilson, no Washington for four games, no Horton...

Bowles = Billy Davis.

 

[Bodha]

I want to be optimistic and say hell do fine, but I cant help feeling like this is Whiz and Grimm 2.0


Bowles, whether his fault or not with the Eagles, because I do understand he had a bunch of primadonnas who quit mid season, was the poster boy for horrible DC's at the end of last year. His Eagles defensive was atrocious. Mind numbingly so bad.

And so when BA gets hired and proclaims he wants to go get Bowles, a guy whos reputation as a DC couldnt be worse at the time + a guy whos still under contract with another team, makes me extremely nervous.

Did BA hire Bowles because he beleives in him? Because nobody else does, thats for sure.

Or did he hire bowles because their buddies? ala Whiz/Grimm...


Honest expectation:

Great talent and solid chracter team will go along way.

But I do think Bowles system will be a big step back from Horton. Bowles also lacks the ability to motivate like Horton.

 

[seesred]

I also think his rankings will be better as the offense will have a chance to move the chain s keeping the D guys on the bench longer. He has a great background and after the initial adjustments we will be fine. With Dockett, Campbell, Peterson, Acho etc would should be pretty good especialy when Dwash comes back.

GBR
40

 

[RugbyMuffin]

No one in recent Arizona sports memory has become more overrated than Ray Horton, yes he was good but let's be real here the defense was not even top ten we finished 12th overall and a miserable 27th in rushing defense.

I think he's going to be just fine

Yeah, it only single handedly won games for us, shut down elite quarterbacks, and kept the team in multiple games while being on the field 75% of the game.

Plus he generated a pass rush without any real OLBer talent, and was one of the best pass defenses in the league while playing musical chairs with the CB#2 position. Want more ? Fine, he also had a defense with a old, and very average SILB, not to mention Reggie Walker was hurt most the year.

Not to mention it was done with pretty much the same personnel that the two smucks we had as defensive coordinators before him had.

Yeah, overrated. Give me a break!


Needless to say I could not disagree more with your assessment of last year's defense and the reason for its success.

Horton will be missed this time next year. Why? Cause he will be the greatest things since slice bread when Bowles defense struggles. (unfair to Bowles but that is the way this board rolls). To wave a hand at what he accomplished last year is ridiculous.

I will be down right shocked if this defense, this year, is even close to the top half of the league. The difference between Bowles and Horton, is Horton showed he can make a defense better then the sum of all its pieces. In all my time watching the Cardinals I had NEVER seen a defense play like that, not even close. Not even to 50% of that level.

How long was he unemployed for ? 10 minutes? Overrated ? The NFL didn't think so.

But, I do not think Bowles is at the level that Horton is.

Need more proof ?

One coach went from being a position coach, was a defensive coordinator last year, and was looking for Head Coaching jobs by year's end.

One coach was a defensive coordinator, interm head coach, then back to a position coach, and last year was just looking for a job. Bowles has had one season where his defense was top 10, 2010.

As for Bowles, he is in a no win situation. His defense is not complete, and his defense is going to struggle. No Cameron Wake here for him to rely getting a pass rush from. I will be rooting for Bowles, and hope the defense can do its job. But, I do not think Bowles is at the level that Horton is.

But, again, I am rooting for Bowles. He is not horrible, and I definitely do NOT think he is the next Billy Davis. Bowles has had success in the NFL, and has had one season where his defense was top 10, 2010. And in 2010, what was the key to his defense ? Having a top 10 pass defense.

Well will see.

 

[kerouac9]

Worse. The talent is worse, and the Parcells scheme is talent-dependent. What's a Parcells' defense that has been successful without an elite rusher?

 

[JeffGollin]

A questionmark.

 

[ndhillst]

I really liked Horton and wish he could have stayed.

I am going to assume we look for an OLB and another S in the draft as we lack depth at those positions and could really use a strong edge rusher. If that happens, I think the defense takes a step back, but the talent will be there so I think the D will improve over time as the scheme becomes second nature and the new players all gel. Also, if the offense improves that can't hurt the D in terms of less fatigue from being on the field the majority of the game.

 

[Finito]

Yeah, it only single handedly won games for us, shut down elite quarterbacks, and kept the team in multiple games while being on the field 75% of the game.

Plus he generated a pass rush without any real OLBer talent, and was one of the best pass defenses in the league while playing musical chairs with the CB#2 position. Want more ? Fine, he also had a defense with a old, and very average SILB, not to mention Reggie Walker was hurt most the year.

Not to mention it was done with pretty much the same personnel that the two smucks we had as defensive coordinators before him had.

Yeah, overrated. Give me a break!


Needless to say I could not disagree more with your assessment of last year's defense and the reason for its success.

Horton will be missed this time next year. Why? Cause he will be the greatest things since slice bread when Bowles defense struggles. (unfair to Bowles but that is the way this board rolls). To wave a hand at what he accomplished last year is ridiculous.

I will be down right shocked if this defense, this year, is even close to the top half of the league. The difference between Bowles and Horton, is Horton showed he can make a defense better then the sum of all its pieces. In all my time watching the Cardinals I had NEVER seen a defense play like that, not even close. Not even to 50% of that level.

How long was he unemployed for ? 10 minutes? Overrated ? The NFL didn't think so.

But, I do not think Bowles is at the level that Horton is.

Need more proof ?

One coach went from being a position coach, was a defensive coordinator last year, and was looking for Head Coaching jobs by year's end.

One coach was a defensive coordinator, interm head coach, then back to a position coach, and last year was just looking for a job. Bowles has had one season where his defense was top 10, 2010.

As for Bowles, he is in a no win situation. His defense is not complete, and his defense is going to struggle. No Cameron Wake here for him to rely getting a pass rush from. I will be rooting for Bowles, and hope the defense can do its job. But, I do not think Bowles is at the level that Horton is.

But, again, I am rooting for Bowles. He is not horrible, and I definitely do NOT think he is the next Billy Davis. Bowles has had success in the NFL, and has had one season where his defense was top 10, 2010. And in 2010, what was the key to his defense ? Having a top 10 pass defense.

Well will see.

Thank you for proving my point. This post would have you thinking this was Buddy Ryan and the Bears. Was Horton good yes was he great? No. I understand all of that being tired the frustration at the end all of that but they were horrible against the run from day 1

And no he never got any real consideration for a head coaching job. The defense was good last year, great? No.

 

[kerouac9]

Thank you for proving my point. This post would have you thinking this was Buddy Ryan and the Bears. Was Horton good yes was he great? No. I understand all of that being tired the frustration at the end all of that but they were horrible against the run from day 1

And no he never got any real consideration for a head coaching job. The defense was good last year, great? No.

They were T19th in YPA allowed rushing? In what world is that "horrible"? The reason that their yardage totals was bad is because opponents started playing against the clock once they went up by 7 points.

 

[Finito]

They were T19th in YPA allowed rushing? In what world is that "horrible"? The reason that their yardage totals was bad is because opponents started playing against the clock once they went up by 7 points.

Oh I'm sorry in what world is that good? How many teams in the NFL.

 

[kerouac9]

Oh I'm sorry in what world is that good? How many teams in the NFL.

Who said it was good? It was perfectly mediocre!

And I'll take perfectly mediocre rush defense in a passing league, where that mediocre rush offense is also an elite pass defense:

5th in passing YPC
1st in opp Passer rating
5th in 1st down %


Again: there was no football reason to dismantle the defense. It was clearly a playoff-caliber defense. The problem was that the offense was cover-your-eyes awful.

It's boggling that any fan of the Arizona Cardinals could find ANYTHING to complain about with the defense last year.

 

[Finito]

Who said it was good? It was perfectly mediocre!

And I'll take perfectly mediocre rush defense in a passing league, where that mediocre rush offense is also an elite pass defense:

5th in passing YPC
1st in opp Passer rating
5th in 1st down %


Again: there was no football reason to dismantle the defense. It was clearly a playoff-caliber defense. The problem was that the offense was cover-your-eyes awful.

It's boggling that any fan of the Arizona Cardinals could find ANYTHING to complain about with the defense last year.

The defensive was dismantled, really? Bit strong don't you think.

No one is complaining.

 

[SECTION 11]

Low

 

[Mitch]

Bowles needs to make the defense more physical, better conditioned, more consistent fundamentally (esp. tackling, taking on blocks, shedding, playing the ball) and less reliant on blitzes in order to create pressure.

Steve Keim has been providing Bowles with depth and hungry free agents and should give Bowles a good edge rusher and a good, young safety in the draft.

Bowles will work tirelessly---I think he's got a very good chance.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Low

S-11, looked at that avatar, like 100 times, never understood it.....now I see it.

Very cool.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Bowles needs to make the defense more physical, better conditioned, more consistent fundamentally (esp. tackling, taking on blocks, shedding, playing the ball) and less reliant on blitzes in order to create pressure.

Steve Keim has been providing Bowles with depth and hungry free agents and should give Bowles a good edge rusher and a good, young safety in the draft.

Bowles will work tirelessly---I think he's got a very good chance.

Chance to be good, or chance to be better than Horton ?

I have no problem with Bowles other than he is not Ray Horton. If Todd Bowles fields and produces a better defense then what we saw last year, I will be happy to eat crow, say I am wrong, and enjoy a stellar defense. But, I do not see that happening.

Now, is the defense going to be good next year....let's say top half of the league ?

I still don't see that for NEXT YEAR, but in the future, sure, why not ? Bowles fielded a pretty good defense with the Dolphins, there is not doubt about that, and his system is tried and true.

The biggest reason, from what I can gather, is we do NOT have a pass rushing OLBer, and I do not see one in the draft that is going to come in and blow the league away, ala Aldon Smith for example.

Not to mention, you cannot underestimate that we have gone from a top safety tandem to a safety that has had one solid year in Rashad Johnson, and a very old saftey in Y.Bell. You need safeties for this type of defense, just ask Bill Belichek whose defense was night and day when it has a good pair of safeties, and when it does not.

I'll even put my money where my mouth is, and say the Cardinals can do everything that I would like to see in the draft, and they are still going to have a very challenging time fielding a good defense this year. Give us Alex Okafor, and lets say Shaun Williams. The defense will be setup to be very well balanced.....in 2014, but 2013 is going to be very challenging.

I do NOT want Todd Bowles to fail, I am with the guy all the way, but I think it is crazy to expect him to field a defense like we saw last year.

To be honest, if people really think Horton's defense was not good last year, then they are going to be splitting the keys on their collective keyboards when they see what the defense is going to look like this year. I mean if someone was unhappy with the defense last year, then they are going to be miserable this year.

Me ? I won't be miserable. I know the defense is taking two steps back or three, but it will be fun watching it come back together................and watching PP7 move to free safety....gonna happen.

 

[kerouac9]

The defensive was dismantled, really? Bit strong don't you think.

No one is complaining.

Well, of the 11 defensive starters last year, at least five of them won't be starting opening day 2013. You can get closer to completely dismantling, but but not much.

Bowles fielded a pretty good defense with the Dolphins, there is not doubt about that, and his system is tried and true.

Just keep in mind that Bowles didn't have much to do with that defense. Mike Nolan was the coordinator of that defense; Bowles hasn't coordinated a defense in two decades.