Expectations for the new players

[JCSunsfan]

1. Ayton. Hmm. Not much talk about Ayton here given he was the #1 overall pick in a generational draft. I think he will have some difficulty adjusting but will start and make important contributions immediately. I am thinking 16 and 10 for the first year.

2. Ariza. Not sure here. Veteran leadership presence will be good. But with all the wings, his minutes will be the key factor.

3. Bridges. I have high hopes for Bridges, but he might struggle to get the minutes with Ariza, Warren, Jackson, and Bender all playing the 3 at times.

4. Okobo. I expect he will be an end-of-the-bench rookie.

5. Melton. Ditto. The pg's who get the minutes--barring a trade--will be Shaq and/or Canaan. I think Canaan makes the team as of the moment.

6. Holmes. He will be a cross between Marquese Chriss and Alan Williams. He will have Chriss' assets and liabilities in play--very athletic, great shot blocker, struggles with defensive spacing. But he will have a much better attitude.

7. Ryan Anderson. He will be a major contributor almost immediately. He is already here in pick up games and looks like he wants to step in as a major contributor and leader. When this trade first happened, I did not think Anderson would have that big of a role, but I am re-thinking that idea.

Wow. Seven new players in the off-season.

Gone: Len, Knight, Chriss, Dudley, Ulis, Williams, Payton, House, Peters.

 

[Mainstreet]

And 5 rookies from the 2018 draft: Ayton, Bridges, Okobo, Melton and King.

 

[elindholm]

Ariza is the second highest paid player on the roster, and he was brought in as a free agent specifically to be a one-year stabilization/transition guy. If he doesn't see major minutes this year, there was no point in bringing him to the team at all.

 

[Mainstreet]

It's good to see the players working out.

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[Chaplin]

It's good to see the players working out.

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Is there a list of who is actually there? Normally it’s not everyone.

 

[SirStefan32]

Significant new players are Ayton, Bridges, Anderson, and Ariza. The rest of the new players are a side-show. Okobo and Melton are second-round picks. They need to play in G-League. If the Suns had a real starting PG, they wouldn't even get random third-PG minutes. Holmes... I don't know where he is going to play. I am assuming that the Suns will give Bender some minutes, probably as backup center and PF. With Ariza and Anderson at 4, Ayton and Chandler at 5, I am not sure there are enough minutes for him, let alone another player.

I have almost no expectations for Ayton this year. Young bigs rarely contribute at his age, so I would be thrilled with 12 and 8 in 24 minutes or so. I don't think Ayton is gonna be a contributor until his third season. I hope I am wrong.

I am very high on Bridges, but I am not sure how much playing time there will be for him. Even if we only place Ariza at 4, there are still Warren and Jackson at 3. I am guessing he will be Booker's backup at 2 for 10 minutes per game, and probably find another ten or so at 3. If Warren gets traded, then he will get more playing time. However much PT he gets, he will produce. He will play good D, hit open shots. Nothing overly excited, but very effective. 12-15 points on 40% shooting from the three, depending on his playing time.

Ariza... well, similar expectations as Bridges, honestly. Hit open 3s, play defense, but I do expect that he will play 25-30 minutes per game.

Anderson... I have no idea. We already have a Ryan Anderson who also defends, so I have no idea what he is doing on the roster. I suppose I could be wrong about him, and he could turn out to be a contributor, but I am not holding my breath.

 

[Mainstreet]

Is there a list of who is actually there? Normally it’s not everyone.

Unfortunately I didn't see a list of the players with the photo.

 

[SirStefan32]

Ayton, Warren, Anderson, Ariza for sure.

 

[Carolinacacti]

Everyone standing around watching the big man. Poop shed "Bender, Anderson and Josh" It's the Warren and Booker show and I think Okobo plays. Bridges should get major minutes but Josh will waste all of them.

 

[Errntknght]

I think Ayton comes out firing - I get the sense that he wants to prove he was the number 1 pick with room to spare.
Bridges I expect to be solid from the get go. Might take a bit of time to get his shot on track like it was in college.
Okobo: You'd think the G-league but I think coach K is going to like him running the offense. If Canaan is truly good to go, then he might send him down just to get minutes.
If Melton's D is better than Harrison's, he'll get some minutes. I didn't see him play in SL so his offense is a question mark to me. How good is his shot selection?
Holmes: Like I said before, how good is his routine D - we know he can block shots. Appears to have a motor, which is a good start for playing defense.
Anderson: Well, I like the fact that he's already working out with the guys. A good attitude helps a player defend better as he hates to let his teammates down.
Bender: Lets hope his a brand new player!

I think Igor is going to have a blast coaching this team. No known head cases for now. No superstars but lots of young talent. Enough defenders to get stops down the stretch. The youth will cause some losses but my guess is there will be few games we don't keep close to the end. I expect him to play 10+ guys routinely. Fresh legs always help.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I think Ayton comes out firing - I get the sense that he wants to prove he was the number 1 pick with room to spare.
Bridges I expect to be solid from the get go. Might take a bit of time to get his shot on track like it was in college.
Okobo: You'd think the G-league but I think coach K is going to like him running the offense. If Canaan is truly good to go, then he might send him down just to get minutes.
If Melton's D is better than Harrison's, he'll get some minutes. I didn't see him play in SL so his offense is a question mark to me. How good is his shot selection?
Holmes: Like I said before, how good is his routine D - we know he can block shots. Appears to have a motor, which is a good start for playing defense.
Anderson: Well, I like the fact that he's already working out with the guys. A good attitude helps a player defend better as he hates to let his teammates down.
Bender: Lets hope his a brand new player!

I think Igor is going to have a blast coaching this team. No known head cases for now. No superstars but lots of young talent. Enough defenders to get stops down the stretch. The youth will cause some losses but my guess is there will be few games we don't keep close to the end. I expect him to play 10+ guys routinely. Fresh legs always help.

The knock on Holmes coming out of Philly was that he is very athletic and blocks shots, but he really struggles with defensive schemes and spacing.

 

[Hoop Head]

I worry about Ayton's production this year because he needs someone giving him the ball in a place where he can do something with it. I don't trust Okobo and Harrison to do that. If Canaan only needed to do that for 10 minutes a game as a backup I'd feel better about his contributions also. PG by committee doesn't work well, as we saw last season.

Booker missing the beginning of the season makes me almost want to avoid the first few games altogether but I'm still anxious to see this team on the court together. Hopefully we don't start this year like we did last season.

I think Bridges will be a solid role player/sixth man and he'll challenge Jackson for minutes off the bench early in the year. I can see Bridges averaging 10-14 ppg with 40% shooting from 3pt range provided he sees about 24 or more minutes a game for the season. I think his minutes will be increased as the season progresses.

I don't know what to expect from Jackson, I hope he's able to look more like he did in the second half of last season than he did in Summer League. I think his minutes will fluctuate a lot, being the least consistent of all of our wings. Hopefully he handles that well.

Warren will likely be used as the first forward off the bench, although he may be a starter next to Ariza if Anderson is coming off the bench. Anderson won't do much but stretch the floor and his minutes will decrease as the year goes on. I would be surprised if Warren, Anderson, and Ariza are all on the roster at seasons end.

I think Holmes will split time with Chandler, covering for him when he sits out back to backs. He seems capable of doing what Chandler no longer can as far as leaving his feet and contesting shots. Hopefully Chandler can help him on the bench, coaching him throughout games as they sit next to each other. I think both Holmes and Ayton should be forced to sit next to Chandler on the bench while Chandler points out defensive schemes to them when they're not on the floor. If he does that then he'll earn his salary.

I don't expect much but some good G-League games from Okobo and Melton. King might be a surprise like Danuel House and push some of our wings when he's up on the main roster but won't do anything that great. We'll see if he can do more than Peters and get a 2nd year with us.

 

[BC867]

I think Igor is going to have a blast coaching this team. No known head cases for now. No superstars but lots of young talent. Enough defenders to get stops down the stretch. The youth will cause some losses but my guess is there will be few games we don't keep close to the end. I expect him to play 10+ guys routinely. Fresh legs always help.

If it could work, I would love to see what the Suns utilized some years back. The foundation of a 2-platoon system of five players each, with the second group coming in as a unit in both halves. With exceptions for injuries, foul trouble, etc. It was fun to see and seemed to work pretty well.

Of course, only if balance were the case with each unit. And also developing the flexibility of picking and choosing with the game on the line, based on matchups, hot players, etc.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I worry about Ayton's production this year because he needs someone giving him the ball in a place where he can do something with it. I don't trust Okobo and Harrison to do that. If Canaan only needed to do that for 10 minutes a game as a backup I'd feel better about his contributions also. PG by committee doesn't work well, as we saw last season.

Booker missing the beginning of the season makes me almost want to avoid the first few games altogether but I'm still anxious to see this team on the court together. Hopefully we don't start this year like we did last season.

I think Bridges will be a solid role player/sixth man and he'll challenge Jackson for minutes off the bench early in the year. I can see Bridges averaging 10-14 ppg with 40% shooting from 3pt range provided he sees about 24 or more minutes a game for the season. I think his minutes will be increased as the season progresses.

I don't know what to expect from Jackson, I hope he's able to look more like he did in the second half of last season than he did in Summer League. I think his minutes will fluctuate a lot, being the least consistent of all of our wings. Hopefully he handles that well.

Warren will likely be used as the first forward off the bench, although he may be a starter next to Ariza if Anderson is coming off the bench. Anderson won't do much but stretch the floor and his minutes will decrease as the year goes on. I would be surprised if Warren, Anderson, and Ariza are all on the roster at seasons end.

I think Holmes will split time with Chandler, covering for him when he sits out back to backs. He seems capable of doing what Chandler no longer can as far as leaving his feet and contesting shots. Hopefully Chandler can help him on the bench, coaching him throughout games as they sit next to each other. I think both Holmes and Ayton should be forced to sit next to Chandler on the bench while Chandler points out defensive schemes to them when they're not on the floor. If he does that then he'll earn his salary.

I don't expect much but some good G-League games from Okobo and Melton. King might be a surprise like Danuel House and push some of our wings when he's up on the main roster but won't do anything that great. We'll see if he can do more than Peters and get a 2nd year with us.

Igor has a system of moving the ball around. Your worry about Ayton not getting the ball from a pg is unfounded. The pg is not going to dominate our half court offense. Otherwise you need to be worried about Booker too. Ayton is not a big limited in mobility that cannot break out and face the basket as well.

 

[Finito]

I see 13-8 for Ayton he's a big man who needs someone to get him the ball and what's the one position we don't even have an NBA caliber player? Yup PG. He's gonna struggle but it won't be all his fault

I think Bridges struggles he looks like he needs to put on weight he looks rail thin.

 

[JCSunsfan]

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[Hoop Head]

Igor has a system of moving the ball around. Your worry about Ayton not getting the ball from a pg is unfounded. The pg is not going to dominate our half court offense. Otherwise you need to be worried about Booker too. Ayton is not a big limited in mobility that cannot break out and face the basket as well.

It's tough to run a system without a PG to initiate things and bring the ball up the court. Ball movement is great but there aren't many of our players that are capable of actually moving with the ball so that's going to limit the movement some also, especially without Booker.

I really don't get how you think Booker is the same as Ayton as far as playing without a PG. Booker is capable of creating his own shot and he's even capable of creating offense for others also, albeit he's limited in that role. Ayton can not get the ball 30 feet from the basket and create in the same way Booker can. The reasons they need each need a PG is quite different. Booker needs one so he's not stuck holding the ball all the time while Ayton needs to be fed the ball in area where he can actually do something offensively.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Igor has a system of moving the ball around. Your worry about Ayton not getting the ball from a pg is unfounded. The pg is not going to dominate our half court offense. Otherwise you need to be worried about Booker too. Ayton is not a big limited in mobility that cannot break out and face the basket as well.

maybe there should be an "expectations for Igor" thread. For all the talk of Igor's "system", no one here has ever seen it in the NBA and in Europe, he had multiple VERY GOOD playmakers, one who some people regarded as a generational talent. This team right now has one OKAY playmaker in Booker... and that is IT. Literally, no one else who's shown the ability to run ANY kind of offense. Unless Igor is reinventing the offensive wheel, with literally nothing at PG and only one still VERY YOUNG okay playmaker for others in Booker, the above seems like it's setting him up to fail, at least expectations-wise. You don't have to have a pg dominant offense, but to expect this free-flowing "system" of the ball moving around with the talent on this team as currently constructed seems really naive, IMO.

 

[1Sun]

Didn't Igor coach the Summer League team that so clearly desperately needed a point guard to make the offense (and Ayton, Bridges and Jackson) work?

 

[Carolinacacti]

Didn't Igor coach the Summer League team that so clearly desperately needed a point guard to make the offense (and Ayton, Bridges and Jackson) work?

Okobo was hurt the last two games and Harrison had to play the hole game. My god their was one starter in Summer league and maybe one of the young PG's.

 

[Hoop Head]

Okobo was hurt the last two games and Harrison had to play the hole game. My god their was one starter in Summer league and maybe one of the young PG's.

He had our likely starting Center in Ayton, a few rotation players in Jackson, Bridges, and Bender plus our starting PG, or one of the PG's who will see big minutes in Shaq and Okobo. It was Summer League but it also was Igor coaching. No one has said anything negative about how he coached that team, he had to coach the players he had and he did a decent job at that. The defense looked good from what I remember but the offense wasn't anything special. I believe it was Scott Bordow that said the offense they ran was not the offense they planned on running during the season because installing a system like that with so many rookies and fringe NBA players would be too much in only 2-3 days of preparation. The offense did look good at times but there was nothing too impressive. It did give us a brief glimpse of what Igor's coaching looks like but not enough to judge anything, really.

In trying to find the quote about that not being the motion offense Igor planned on running the only note I found about the coaching staff at all was Igor saying he's not going to have an offensive and defensive coordinator assistants, he wants all of the assistants to work on everything. I think that could be a good thing, as far as player development is concerned.

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[taz02]

We need to come to terms with Booker as or PG.

 

[Hoop Head]

Found this article that talks about Igor's coaching during summer league, it talks about his past overseas and with Utah. It mainly focuses on the defense he installed for the SL team but it mentions the offense some with quotes from a few of the players..

“He kinda instructed us in the beginning and then he just let us figure it out from there,” Reed said. “Each play is not for one specific person, necessarily. We have a few options for each play. He allows us to have freedom.”

That freedom works in favor of athletic forwards such as Jackson who want to push the pace of the offense.

“I think some of our best offense is just us getting the rebound and running,” Jackson said. “We’ve got so many guys that can handle the ball.”

The Suns played at a fast pace for the most of the first two games, but Kokoskov was not thrilled with the 36 combined turnovers.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/spo...ns-nba-summer-league-igor-kokoskov/769969002/

 

[Hoop Head]

We need to come to terms with Booker as or PG.

Booker is not a PG. That was evident last year when he tried covering the position. He's not a PG and forcing him into that role full time will only lead to stunting his development as one of the best young shooting guards in the game. He doesn't have the court vision of a good PG. He sees the floor well for himself but not to set up others.

Harden is the only SG that's moved to PG with any success and they went out and acquired a PG to move him back to SG after 1 year of that. That was in D'Antoni's system also where the plan was to put the ball in Harden's hands as much as possible anyways. Harden played some PG in OKC before he was traded to Houston also. He was viewed as more of a combo guard coming into the league while Booker is a prototypical shooting guard, for better or worse.

Other top SG's throughout league history haven't been forcefully moved from SG to PG though and the Suns would be foolish to do with Booker outside of some small stretched because of injuries. Covering a few games is one thing, pushing him there for an entire season and without a way to move him back if he fails is only setting the whole team up for failure.

 

[Errntknght]

I find it interesting that so many people talk as though we have had good play making guards up until now. Consider the assist to turnover ratios from the last few years (ordered by minutes)
2013-4 Bledsoe 1.7, Dragic 2.1, Barbosa 1.7, Ish Smith 2.9 and we didn't keep him
2014-5 Bledsoe 1.8, Knight 1.8
2015-6 Bledsoe 1.7, Knight 1.5 (Booker 1.3)
2016-7 Bledsoe 1.9, Knight 1.5, Ulis 2.9 (Booker 1.1)
2017-8 Payton 2.3, Ulis 2.4, Canaan 2.6, Harrison 2.5 (Booker 1.3)

I added Booker just in case you were wondering. The league average for all PGs was 2.4 this last season so our PGs in recent times have been well below average as playmakers. Canaan and Harrison promise to be a breath of fresh air.