Fascinated to see if the vet tangibles/intangibles pays off in the long run. Cause we did have more youthful options.

[SoonerLou]

Obviously not the gospel, but its make me wonder if/when they improve. I'm not factoring Watt into this. His impact seems more obvious than just on field stuff and he did actually play/grade at a high level last year. So its likely a slow start imo. Im confident Watt will start playing really well.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

However, there is an alternative for the other guys. Hudson was likely going to the Chiefs if we didnt trade for him. Creed Humphrey would have then fell to our 3rd round pick. It is EARLY, but AJ Green looks like our 4th best WR. We could have used that money to retain Reddick.

Again Its possible that AJ is just finding his rhythm. Its possible that he is really helping Kirk and Moore grow as Wrs. However, as blashempous as it is to say I'm wondering if keeping Reddick and Keesean Johnson would have been better as well.

I dont want to be blasted this early in the week, but I kinda wonder if Isabella's speed on the outside as the "4th" guy gives us the same production.

FWIW, my eye test tells me Hudson is better than what they are saying. However, I'm likely bias but I was really high on Creed....the player..not the band obviously.

 

[Cardiac]

You are assuming that Reddick would have signed with the Cards. He is now with his HC from Temple and was misused for 3 years here. I am on record saying I wanted to re-sign Reddick but not sure he wanted to be here. Hudson is making an impact on the Oline for sure, teaching KM and helping him with D formations and has been voted a Captain. It would be great to have a young long term C on the team but this team needed Hudson's experience and leadership for this year. KM needed him as well.

I was Keesean fan for a minute but he simply doesn't have the foot speed or the it factor. AJ's performance and production does have to improve but Keesean is not the answer.

Good topic for sure but I'm sticking with the SK plan because it seems to be paying off.

 

[SoonerLou]

You are assuming that Reddick would have signed with the Cards. He is now with his HC from Temple and was misused for 3 years here. I am on record saying I wanted to re-sign Reddick but not sure he wanted to be here. Hudson is making an impact on the Oline for sure, teaching KM and helping him with D formations and has been voted a Captain. It would be great to have a young long term C on the team but this team needed Hudson's experience and leadership for this year. KM needed him as well.

I was Keesean fan for a minute but he simply doesn't have the foot speed or the it factor. AJ's performance and production does have to improve but Keesean is not the answer.

Good topic for sure but I'm sticking with the SK plan because it seems to be paying off.

Oh yea the plan could work out perfectly. That wouldnt shock me at all. Reddick is interesting. Would he have rather signed with his old coach for that kind of money or did we just need to show we valued him?

Im certainly hoping AJ turns back the clock. Hudson does make life easier for Kyler with his experience as well. Ultimately its about what those guys do vs the Rams/49ers type teams. So Im hoping thats when their impact really shows. Im in the minority but I really did view Creed as a late 1st round talent so I thought he could be a steal.

The vets are all easy to root for so I'm hoping it works out.

 

[DVontel]

Somebody didn’t watch Creed against the Ravens.

 

[SoonerLou]

Somebody didn’t watch Creed against the Ravens.

I did. And he's still graded almost 18 points better than Hudson despite playing the Ravens and Browns fronts.

I like Hudson and hope he starts playing at the pro bowl level he use to be at.

 

[Vacard]

Hudson’s real value will come against Aaron Donald

 

[SoonerLou]

Hudson’s real value will come against Aaron Donald

Yea to me if he's solid against the Rams and 49ers then the trade was totally worth it. Just a tad letdown its not "clear" so far. Week 4 will be huge.

 

[Russ Smith]

I can't say anything bad about Hudson so far to me he's been good. Maybe PFF doesn't agree but Kyler called him out for the all out blitz in the first game for seeing it pre snap and alerting Kyler to change the play. I think he's likely doing stuff like that far more often than we realize.

It definitely appears to me that Kyler is very comfortable with him. One thing is there's been several iffy snaps, a couple where Kyler didn't think it was coming and it did and a couple of high or low ones that Kyler handled. I'm assuming Hudson's just not used to this many longer snaps since we're rarely under Center.

 

[PACardsFan]

Hudson’s real value will come against Aaron Donald

EXACTLY!!! If we find Hudson consistently in Murray’s lap, then we’ll know it was a wasted trade.

 

[QuebecCard]

These are the only contributing stats that matter to me with regards to Hudson at centre:

(Two games)

890 total yards (239 on the ground & 651 by air)

9 TDs - 3 FGs

Time of possession: 32.36

 

[Shaggy]

Watt is doing alot more on the field then stats show. He's always in the back field.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I can't say anything bad about Hudson so far to me he's been good. Maybe PFF doesn't agree but Kyler called him out for the all out blitz in the first game for seeing it pre snap and alerting Kyler to change the play. I think he's likely doing stuff like that far more often than we realize.

It definitely appears to me that Kyler is very comfortable with him. One thing is there's been several iffy snaps, a couple where Kyler didn't think it was coming and it did and a couple of high or low ones that Kyler handled. I'm assuming Hudson's just not used to this many longer snaps since we're rarely under Center.

I was surprised, and commented during the game, by the number of low snaps to a short QB. If kyler has to bend over that frequently how many of those would’ve been a problem for a normal height QB? Maybe Hudson is overcompensating for kylers lack of height.

 

[kerouac9]

A.J. Green is holding down a position the Cards have struggled to nail down basically since Smoke Brown left town. I'm fine if he's our fourth-best WR because he's the #2 guy who can play outside. Shuffle 5 points from Kirk and Moore over to Green to highlight his impact on their games.

Again, PFF grades aren't much.

 

[SoonerLou]

EXACTLY!!! If we find Hudson consistently in Murray’s lap, then we’ll know it was a wasted trade.

I agree with that. Trade is worth if Donald isnt dominating like normal. I dont expect to shut him down just give us a much better chance than previous years.

 

[Krangodnzr]

A.J. Green is holding down a position the Cards have struggled to nail down basically since Smoke Brown left town. I'm fine if he's our fourth-best WR because he's the #2 guy who can play outside. Shuffle 5 points from Kirk and Moore over to Green to highlight his impact on their games.

Again, PFF grades aren't much.

Yep. All offseason some of us were talking about how moving Kirk to the slot was going to be a big move.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Yep. All offseason some of us were talking about how moving Kirk to the slot was going to be a big move.

That’s true and it’s playing out. I’ve actually been amazed that he’s held onto some of the passes bc he’s still body catching a ton of passes. I just don’t know that we can credit Green’s play, in whole or in part, for that. Has he had any different gravity than anyone else we’ve played there? Probably difficult to know without an over-the-top analysis.

 

[Krangodnzr]

That’s true and it’s playing out. I’ve actually been amazed that he’s held onto some of the passes bc he’s still body catching a ton of passes. I just don’t know that we can credit Green’s play, in whole or in part, for that. Has he had any different gravity than anyone else we’ve played there? Probably difficult to know without an over-the-top analysis.

What the "darkside" underrated was how much the move to the slot was going to benefit Kirk. Bro...I'm SMDH...because I pointed out this move ALL OFFSEASON. I thought Kirk was miscast as a pure outside receiver and was going to be much better as a slot and he has been one of the best receivers in the NFL through two games.

The best move the Cardinals made all year was letting Fitzgerald go. He was sooooo bad in the slot last year and I think he hurt a number of Kingsbury's bread and butter plays last year.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

What the "darkside" underrated was how much the move to the slot was going to benefit Kirk. Bro...I'm SMDH...because I pointed out this move ALL OFFSEASON. I thought Kirk was miscast as a pure outside receiver and was going to be much better as a slot and he has been one of the best receivers in the NFL through two games.

The best move the Cardinals made all year was letting Fitzgerald go. He was sooooo bad in the slot last year and I think he hurt a number of Kingsbury's bread and butter plays last year.

Eh I don’t think the darksiders even much commented on kirk’s move inside one way or the other. I know I didn’t. I always thought he was a slot coming outta A&M when I was stoked we drafted him. Though I have to admit I was curious how he would perform in the slot as a body catcher when passes might reach him more quickly necessitating quicker reactions. Instead it’s played out that he stretches from the slot a lot more than the short routes we became accustomed to seeing outta slot with Fitz.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

What the "darkside" underrated was how much the move to the slot was going to benefit Kirk. Bro...I'm SMDH...because I pointed out this move ALL OFFSEASON. I thought Kirk was miscast as a pure outside receiver and was going to be much better as a slot and he has been one of the best receivers in the NFL through two games.

The best move the Cardinals made all year was letting Fitzgerald go. He was sooooo bad in the slot last year and I think he hurt a number of Kingsbury's bread and butter plays last year.

And agreed on letting Fitz go. As revered as he will always be the writing has been on the wall for Fitz for a couple seasons. I don’t believe a single darksider wanted to see Fitz back this year, as difficult as that is to type.

 

[Cheesebeef]

What the "darkside" underrated was how much the move to the slot was going to benefit Kirk. Bro...I'm SMDH...because I pointed out this move ALL OFFSEASON. I thought Kirk was miscast as a pure outside receiver and was going to be much better as a slot and he has been one of the best receivers in the NFL through two games.

The best move the Cardinals made all year was letting Fitzgerald go. He was sooooo bad in the slot last year and I think he hurt a number of Kingsbury's bread and butter plays last year.

What you’re failing to realize is that Kirk should have been moved inside regardless of if we signed Green. He wasn’t a good outside WR and the plan was obviously to go out snd get someone on the outside. Didn’t have to be Green.

And I’d be stunned if you found one post from any darksider wishing Larry back. Most darksiders were criticizing his contract size for years (and getting bashed for doing so) and I can’t remember a single one of them wanting him back this year.

 

[Krangodnzr]

What you’re failing to realize is that Kirk should have been moved inside regardless of if we signed Green. He wasn’t a good outside WR and the plan was obviously to go out snd get someone on the outside. Didn’t have to be Green.

And I’d be stunned if you found one post from any darksider wishing Larry back. Most darksiders were criticizing his contract size for years (and getting bashed for doing so) and I can’t remember a single one of them wanting him back this year.

I dont fail to realize ANYTHING.

Darksiders couldn't see this coming from a mile away. I said all offseason Kirk was going to explode in the slot. I was met by cynicism.

And I characterized nothing of the darksides take on Fitz so I dont see why you're getting your knickers in a bundle here.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

Pfft @ PFF.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I dont fail to realize ANYTHING.

Darksiders couldn't see this coming from a mile away. I said all offseason Kirk was going to explode in the slot. I was met by cynicism.

And I characterized nothing of the darksides take on Fitz so I dont see why you're getting your knickers in a bundle here.

Oh, Krang... you fail to realize so much.

 

[oaken1]

Obviously not the gospel, but its make me wonder if/when they improve. I'm not factoring Watt into this. His impact seems more obvious than just on field stuff and he did actually play/grade at a high level last year. So its likely a slow start imo. Im confident Watt will start playing really well.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

However, there is an alternative for the other guys. Hudson was likely going to the Chiefs if we didnt trade for him. Creed Humphrey would have then fell to our 3rd round pick. It is EARLY, but AJ Green looks like our 4th best WR. We could have used that money to retain Reddick.

Again Its possible that AJ is just finding his rhythm. Its possible that he is really helping Kirk and Moore grow as Wrs. However, as blashempous as it is to say I'm wondering if keeping Reddick and Keesean Johnson would have been better as well.

I dont want to be blasted this early in the week, but I kinda wonder if Isabella's speed on the outside as the "4th" guy gives us the same production.

FWIW, my eye test tells me Hudson is better than what they are saying. However, I'm likely bias but I was really high on Creed....the player..not the band obviously.

so....you think Jon Gruden was going to trade a star offensive lineman to his arch rival if we didnt get him?
Not in a million years. Never happen.

all three of those guys have delivered acceptable play. JJ Watt has been JJ Watt... he eats up blockers and makes an occasional play in the backfield.

Green has been okay...he made one bonehead mistake when he didnt get both feet in bounds last week... but he is on a new team and playing #2 for the first time in his life....when you have a legit guy at 2 the safeties have to set up just a little wider...that opens holes in the middle for the inside receivers to run through... IMO AJ is doing his job just fine at this point.

Hudson has not been stellar,... but he is learning a new system and has two guys next to him he has never played with before... the comfort level and play level will go up steadily as the line gels into a unit.

Isabella on the outside would not give us the offensive freedom that Green does... first, because Green is a big guy and opens the chances for fifty fifty balls... but mostly because those nfl guys are smart....and they know andy cant catch

 

[BritCard]

I've defended PFF in the past as a purely math based measurement of performance. With some weaknesses for sure but there isn't a system that doesn't.

But they are smoking crack on Hudson's grades.

He doesn't have a single sack, pressure or hurry through 2 games.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

The same applies to JJ Watt. PFF has him as a 63 pass rush grade. Yet ESPN Pass Rush Win Rate has him as the 3rd best win rate in the league at 27%.

Morgan Fox, the guy behind JJ in PRWR has an 81.3 pass rush grade. It's almost like when you slip on a Cardinals jersey your grades automatically drop.

Maybe it's like commentary crews? When you're the Cardinals you get the C team graders.

FYI in ESPN Pass Block Win Rate for O line Justin Murray is 2nd for OT's and Pugh and Josh Jones and 2nd and 5th respectively for interior. Josh Jones is also 2nd in run block win rate. Yet Jones only has a 46.3 PFF grade

Rodney Hudson is 9th in run block win rate at C.

I don't subscribe to ESPN so I can't tell you where Hudson sits in other metrics. Maybe someone who does could tell us.