Faster is better?

[SirStefan32]

Allright. Have Googs and Zarko play C and Amare PF. That's fine.

 

[Yuma]

I believe they will have Little Jake in for the small ball lineups. Williams will be doormat for the big centers. So will googs. Yep this year Little Jake will be the "Headless Chicken" that Bo played for us so well!

 

[Suns_fan69]

Even though it's more likely than a sunny day in AZ, the article did not mention anything about small... ahem *skill*ball. It said we should run plain and simple. Our starting 5 are all fairly swift up and down the court and FJ wants to use that to our strength. Voshkul should start and should see 20-25 minutes and he's got decent speed in him for a big man so we should use it to our advantage.

I think the suns should be a lot more selective about when they use skillball this year. I'd love to see it against teams second unit when they can really exploit their athleticism and speed. Using it selectively will hopefully leave more gas in the tank come playoffs and less wear and tear over the season.

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by slinslin
Tell me about Dallas' legit Cs again.

LaFrentz and Bradley.

They are MUCH better than Suns' centers.

 

[slinslin]

I rather have Voshkul than Bradley. Especially for this team.

And Lafrentz is just a PF playing C. He is like a 1' taller version of Tom Gugliotta.
And we should also notice that Dallas doesn't have a comparable player to Amare Stoudemire.

 

[Yuma]

Bradley is the weakest 7 footer I have ever seen!! I've never seen a guy his size get moved out of the lane so easily! I would rather have little Jake than Bradley. As far as Lafrentz, it's weird you compare him to Googs since he was hurt much of last year like Googs!! Those two playing each other pretty much cancel each other out head to head. They almost have identical games now, except Lafrentz is younger and has good hustle games left in him every once in a while.

 

[slinslin]

LaFrentz ist a better shotblocker than Googs but Googs is a much better passer and should also be a better rebounder if reasonably healthy.


A 7'6 guy getting his shot pinned against the backboard by a 6'1 PG would even be more embarassing than Chris Webber wrapping the ball around Big Joke.

 

[elindholm]

He is like a 1' taller version of Tom Gugliotta.

Except that he is also a good three-point shooter and shot-blocker.

LaFrentz would be a great asset on the Suns.

 

[slinslin]

And Googs is a better passer, rebounder and defender..

Anyway I forgot Zarko. I'd rather have Zarko than Lafrentz.

And of course Amare >>>>>> Lafrentz.

 

[elindholm]

And Googs is a better passer, rebounder and defender.

Maybe he used to be. I'll believe that Gugliotta is back to his "old self" when I see it.

Apparently I just have a much higher opinion of LaFrentz than you do. I certainly don't think he's an All-Star, but he is at least average among the league's starting centers.

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by slinslin
And Googs is a better passer, rebounder and defender..

What?
Maybe in 1999 but right now we are in the year of 2003.....

 

[slinslin]

Well I don't think he lost his basketball smarts. As long as he is reasonably healthy I believe that all of the above is 100% true.

Looking at it as a whole the Mavericks certainly are worse in the paint than the Suns both offensively and defensively.

 

[JJ Slim]

Googs didn't do anything last year. He's finished.

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by slinslin
I rather have Voshkul than Bradley. Especially for this team.

It seems to be a popular hobby on almost every NBA board to bash Bradley.
I know that he isn't the toughest and most mobile C of NBA (and I was very polite as usual) but he has a VERY good mid-range J and he is a good shotblocker.
Aren't these 2 things the biggest weaknessses of Suns' frontcourt?

Only because of these 2 factors isn't Bradley a better C than Suns' C's?

And Lafrentz is just a PF playing C. He is like a 1' taller version of Tom Gugliotta.

Yes, and Nowitzki is like a bit more experienced version of Cabarkapa, right?

slin, do you seriously believe in these idiotic statements or are you only enjoying to defend them?

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by slinslin
Well I don't think he lost his basketball smarts.

No, maybe he didn't but he completely lost his explosiveness, speed, stamina and leaping ability.
Didn't the last 2 seasons prove this effectively enough?

As long as he is reasonably healthy I believe that all of the above is 100% true.

Please.
Wake up!The dream is over. We are talking about Tom Gugliotta.

Looking at it as a whole the Mavericks certainly are worse in the paint than the Suns both offensively and defensively.

The starting point that DAL has legit C's.
They do.

 

[slinslin]

"No Life after Jake" so is Big Joke finished because he didn't do anything last year?

Is DerMarr Johnson finished because he didn't do anything last year?

Is Penny Hardaway finished because he didn't do anything in 00/01?

Is Maurice Taylor finished because he didn't do anything in 01/02?

Is Jared Jeffries finished because he didn't do anything in 02/03?

Is Alonzo Mourning finished because he didn't do anything in 00/01 or 02/03?

Was Michael Jordan finished when he stepped away from basketball?

If Penny Hardaway can play like he did last season after probably worse injuries than Googs than Googs can do the same especially since he will be a 20mpg guy or something like that.

 

[slinslin]

Originally posted by hcsilla
No, maybe he didn't but he completely lost his explosiveness, speed, stamina and leaping ability.
Didn't the last 2 seasons prove this effectively enough?


Please.
Wake up!The dream is over. We are talking about Tom Gugliotta.

The starting point that DAL has legit C's.
They do.

The C you are calling legit isn't even a C.

So we have Amare Stoudemire, we have a legit C that's what you are saying.

 

[elindholm]

The C you are calling legit isn't even a C.

Who, LaFrentz? He is 6' 11", 245 -- identical to Jake Voskuhl.

 

[JJ Slim]

Originally posted by slinslin
"No Life after Jake" so is Big Joke finished because he didn't do anything last year?

Is DerMarr Johnson finished because he didn't do anything last year?

Is Penny Hardaway finished because he didn't do anything in 00/01?

Is Maurice Taylor finished because he didn't do anything in 01/02?

Is Jared Jeffries finished because he didn't do anything in 02/03?

Is Alonzo Mourning finished because he didn't do anything in 00/01 or 02/03?

Was Michael Jordan finished when he stepped away from basketball?

If Penny Hardaway can play like he did last season after probably worse injuries than Googs than Googs can do the same especially since he will be a 20mpg guy or something like that.

I was being sarcastic, Double A Ron. You proved my point better than I could.

 

[frdbtr]

Originally posted by SirStefan32
Jordan had a center who could hit open jumpers. He had a very versitile big power forwards.

Time will show who is right, but Marbury, Hardaway, Johnson, Marion, Stoudemire lineup will not get out of the first round. EVER!

That is pretty final. What if Stoudemire becomes as good as most of us hope he can be. In my opinion that would make him the most dominating big man that has ever put on a suns uniform and if he can't even carry them out of the first round "ever" then why do I root for the suns?

 

[elindholm]

In my opinion that would make him the most dominating big man that has ever put on a suns uniform and if he can't even carry them out of the first round "ever" then why do I root for the suns?

Dominating opposing PFs is different from dominating opposing Cs. Charles Barkley won the league MVP in 1993 as a power forward; that is arguably the best season ever turned in by a Suns "big man." Now true, Barkley was only 6' 5", but the point is, he was a power forward, not a center. The same is true with Stoudemire. He can be a dominant "big man" without having the size to play center -- the challenge will be keeping him at his natural position, where he is most likely to succeed.

And that all goes double for Marion as a PF.

 

[frdbtr]

Originally posted by elindholm
Dominating opposing PFs is different from dominating opposing Cs. Charles Barkley won the league MVP in 1993 as a power forward; that is arguably the best season ever turned in by a Suns "big man." Now true, Barkley was only 6' 5", but the point is, he was a power forward, not a center. The same is true with Stoudemire. He can be a dominant "big man" without having the size to play center -- the challenge will be keeping him at his natural position, where he is most likely to succeed.

And that all goes double for Marion as a PF. [/B]

You are exactly right, and Charles Barkley took us to the finals that year. My point is, if Stoudemire can't take us out of the first round with guys like Marbury and Marion around him then he will never be as good as we all believe that he is going to be.

 

[slinslin]

Originally posted by JJ Slim
I was being sarcastic, Double A Ron. You proved my point better than I could.

I am not Double A Ron. I don't even post at phxsuns.net.

I already emailed swingman about this.

 

[elindholm]

My point is, if Stoudemire can't take us out of the first round with guys like Marbury and Marion around him then he will never be as good as we all believe that he is going to be.

Yes, but the point of the thread is whether Stoudemire can do this as a center and Marion can do it as a power forward. Great players become less effective when they are forced to play out of position. I don't think anyone doubts the star potential of Stoudemire or Marion -- the question is how well will they be able to succeed if they are often playing one position "up."

SirStefan32 wrote, "Marbury, Hardaway, Johnson, Marion, Stoudemire lineup will not get out of the first round." It's the word "lineup" that is the key. He means, a Suns team in which the best (or crunch time, or most-used, or whatever) five-player lineup is those five players listed won't be a postseason threat. It's nothing against any of those players as individuals.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Originally posted by elindholm

Yes, but the point of the thread is whether Stoudemire can do this as a center and Marion can do it as a power forward. Great players become less effective when they are forced to play out of position. I don't think anyone doubts the star potential of Stoudemire or Marion -- the question is how well will they be able to succeed if they are often playing one position "up."

It is amazing how often we put a player in a box, though, and assume he cannot play effectively "up."

I have no real reservations about Amare playing center, especially as his body matures (he's 6-10 now but could grow some and he will add bulk just throught the natural maturing process). He has (potentially) as much size and strength as Mark West, Hakeem, Alonzo, etc. The center position might not be "up" at all for Amare, eventually.

I am concerned about Shawn. His best attributes are speed, quickness, and that quick jumping ability of his. Bulking up to play pf does not play to his strengths. His-6-7 height often leaves him undersized at SF let alone moving to PF.

As an aside, as I consider this last trade, it does not necessarily translate into more small ball. Trading away our 6-8 "center" in Bo Outlaw takes away a small ball option. With the roster we have now, even our small line up will have some size.

I suppose Frank will find a way to play Steph, Barbs, Knight, and C-Jake, with Shawn at center, but overall, he's going to have to work harder to put an undersized line-up out there with the likes of JJ, DerMarr, and Zarko on board.