Favorite Michael Jackson song

[Rivercard]

I see. I think that he alienated fans based off of false allegations. Ah well. Great debate this as been anyway.

It's a fascinating story that's for sure.

 

[Gaddabout]

Agreed. There have been plenty examples of musicians who were self taught and couldn't write music down but composed plenty of their own music. I would put money on the fact he could write sheet music but even if he didn't does that diminish the fact that he could compose beats or sounds that drew in millions???

Buddy Rich, considered the greatest drummer ever, couldn't read a lick of music.

Joe Pass, considered one of the three greatest guitarists of the 20th Century, couldn't read music.

Reading/writing music is a recommendable for anyone wanting to get into professional music, but it's never been a prerequisite for making music if you're capable of communicating ideas some other way.

I would be willing to bet MJ didn't have a clue how to read or write music since had no formal training in any aspect of music, but it didn't matter. He could always sing his ideas and that's the most direct way to get ideas across in the studio.

It also didn't hurt that MJ, as a solo artist, ALWAYS worked with the world's best musicians. From his first solo release and on, his musicians were the cream of the crop of LA session musicians. Later on he went global but his standards never dropped.

 

[Linderbee]

It also didn't hurt that MJ, as a solo artist, ALWAYS worked with the world's best musicians. From his first solo release and on, his musicians were the cream of the crop of LA session musicians. Later on he went global but his standards never dropped.

How is that possible when he alienated everyone????

 

[Gaddabout]

How is that possible when he alienated everyone????

I note your sarcasm, but I'll make a side note about the sideman culture in pro music: You tend to develop an almost cult-like attachment to the front man given enough time. I have a friend who was Ike Turner's drummer for about 20 years. He was at Ike's house the day he died. Swears Ike was slandered by Tina to promote her solo career.

I sort of doubt his side of the story, but I do admire his commitment to the artist he supported.

Anyone who worked with MJ became an MJ evangelist. For most of his solo career his touring drummer was Jonathan Moffett. Moffett's reputation is impeccable in industry, very easy to work with, the highest ethics, very dependable and a pro's pro. He would NEVER say anything bad about MJ and had developed that cult-like attachment to the man.

That's just the culture of the industry, IMO. But MJ worked with the best musicians because he could afford them -- that's a fact that's impossible to ignore. He may be the only solo artist in the history of solo artists who could afford the kind of musicians he hired to work on Off the Wall. Most of those guys collected quadruple scale (or more) because they had been hitmakers for most of the 70s.

I'm guessing Moffett made a small fortune as a drummer touring with MJ. Maybe upwards of $10K a week plus $500 daily per diem. And that was in the 80s.

 

[Rivercard]

Buddy Rich, considered the greatest drummer ever, couldn't read a lick of music.

Joe Pass, considered one of the three greatest guitarists of the 20th Century, couldn't read music.

Not to hijack the thread, but ranking musicians is like picking out a puppy at the pound. There is no right or wrong pick. Greatness is way too subjective.

 

[Gaddabout]

Not to hijack the thread, but ranking musicians is like picking out a puppy at the pound. There is no right or wrong pick. Greatness is way too subjective.

I think I picked institutional musicians who were praised and appreciated by all standards and measurement to make a very basic point. There was no denying their elite skill.

 

[Rivercard]

I think I picked institutional musicians who were praised and appreciated by all standards and measurement to make a very basic point. There was no denying their elite skill.

No doubt. Top notch guys.

Your analysis of sidemen is very interesting.

 

[Covert Rain]

I note your sarcasm, but I'll make a side note about the sideman culture in pro music: You tend to develop an almost cult-like attachment to the front man given enough time. I have a friend who was Ike Turner's drummer for about 20 years. He was at Ike's house the day he died. Swears Ike was slandered by Tina to promote her solo career.

I sort of doubt his side of the story, but I do admire his commitment to the artist he supported.

Anyone who worked with MJ became an MJ evangelist. For most of his solo career his touring drummer was Jonathan Moffett. Moffett's reputation is impeccable in industry, very easy to work with, the highest ethics, very dependable and a pro's pro. He would NEVER say anything bad about MJ and had developed that cult-like attachment to the man.

That's just the culture of the industry, IMO. But MJ worked with the best musicians because he could afford them -- that's a fact that's impossible to ignore. He may be the only solo artist in the history of solo artists who could afford the kind of musicians he hired to work on Off the Wall. Most of those guys collected quadruple scale (or more) because they had been hitmakers for most of the 70s.

I'm guessing Moffett made a small fortune as a drummer touring with MJ. Maybe upwards of $10K a week plus $500 daily per diem. And that was in the 80s.

Good point but I bet none of those guys would comprise reputation either for the sake of money. Many of the industry "greats" are great for a reason and tend to align themselves with our "greats".

I would put money on the fact Moffet would not be caught dead with some of the "pre-package" pop artists out there regardless of paycheck. Greatness begets greatness.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Most of Toto -- Lukather, the Porcaro brothers -- were the studio musicians in that album. Jeff Porcaro, the drummer, almost walked out of the gig after hearing that lyric, "That doggone girl is mine."

Another Toto/MJ connection ... Steve Porcaro left Toto with a song he'd written that Toto thought wasn't rock enough for them. He sold it to Michael Jackson. It was Human Nature, a huge MJ hit.

Wow Gadd! Never knew that about Human Nature... I actually really like that song and hear/feel a bit of Toto in there.

 

[Gaddabout]

Michael, Janet, the family band, [FONT=verdana,geneva,arial,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]George Michael, Elton John, Madonna, Lionel Richie, Julian Lennon, Richard Marx, Vasco Rossi, Cameo, Kenny G.

You might be onto something there.
[/SIZE][/FONT]

 

[82CardsGrad]

There are legions of young musicians who think writing a hit song is easy -- if you're willing to sell your soul. The challenge is simple: If it's easy, write one and sell to someone. Coming up with hooks, the right performance, the right recipe, it's very hard. MJ had an ear for what the masses wanted, and that's a natural gift. It's very hard to learn that.

He wasn't a virtuoso musician. He wasn't going to head over to the local jazz bar and blow Cherokee like Coltrane. But in the aspect of pop music, he certainly was a genius.

This sums it up perfectly... I love a huge range of music and musicians. Have a deep appreciation for what I feel to be high-quality output and production. Jazz, Rock, R&B/Soul, Pop, Country... my appreciation spans them all.
However, MJ was in a class all his own. Nobody was ever so able as he was to consistently produce chart-toppers. Nobody was ever able to produce the high-quality, high-appealing music that he spit out during his run.

Bummer he went all loco on us... As great as he was - and to a great extent, there was never anyone greater - he could've been so much more.

 

[Linderbee]

Michael, Janet, the family band, [FONT=verdana,geneva,arial,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]George Michael, Elton John, Madonna, Lionel Richie, Julian Lennon, Richard Marx, Vasco Rossi, Cameo, Kenny G.

You might be onto something there.
[/SIZE][/FONT]

? Can you 'splain this one better?

 

[Gaddabout]

? Can you 'splain this one better?

Those are all the groups Jonathan Moffett has played with. Just suggesting the man picks and chooses whom he plays with. He doesn't play for untalented people.

 

[Mulli]

Those are all the groups Jonathan Moffett has played with. Just suggesting the man picks and chooses whom he plays with. He doesn't play for untalented people.

Richard Marx and Cameo?

You must be registered for see images

 

[Linderbee]

Those are all the groups Jonathan Moffett has played with. Just suggesting the man picks and chooses whom he plays with. He doesn't play for untalented people.

Ah. Didn't know you were referring to Moffett, so I was confused.

 

[Gaddabout]

Richard Marx and Cameo?

You must be registered for see images

I don't care for Marx's music, either, but the man is a skilled songwriter. He wrote 'Crazy' for Kenny Rogers and 'What About Me.' He wrote many commercial jingles that haunt you in your sleep they're so catchy. Of course, he wrote all his own hits. He's cheese as a performer, but you can't deny the man's skill as a songwriter.

Cameo was undeniably funky. There would be no OutKast without Cameo. They served as an inspiration and were hired as producer help in the studio.

 

[Mulli]

I don't care for Marx's music, either, but the man is a skilled songwriter. He wrote 'Crazy' for Kenny Rogers and 'What About Me.' He wrote many commercial jingles that haunt you in your sleep they're so catchy. Of course, he wrote all his own hits. He's cheese as a performer, but you can't deny the man's skill as a songwriter.

Cameo was undeniably funky. There would be no OutKast without Cameo. They served as an inspiration and were hired as producer help in the studio.

I deny his skill.

Word Up on Cameo.

 

[Rivercard]

Richard Marx and Cameo?

Surprised you didn't lump Kenny G with these.

 

[Mulli]

Surprised you didn't lump Kenny G with these.

He rules!

:JohnTesh:

 

[Linderbee]

'What About Me.'

by Moving Pictures?

One of my favorite songs.

 

[Linderbee]

by Moving Pictures?

One of my favorite songs.

Nope.

 

[Mulli]

Oh, and back on topic...You Are Not Alone is pretty much a tie for me with Man in the Mirror. I really can't decide between them.

Man in the Mirror came up on Pandora today. Not terrible.

 

[Gaddabout]

I'm part of a large group of working drummers who gather annually/seasonally in LA every year. We're getting ready for the big shindig again in February and the topic of Off the Wall came up because we're trying to get JR Robinson (the drummer on that album) to come. Most every working drummer I know -- even the young ones -- credit it as an influence on how to play pop ... very, very simply, just a hair in the back of the pulse.

But the problem is you should NEVER, EVER listen to Off the Wall before a gig because the absence of cymbal hits gets in your head. Early on the MJ/Quincy Jones team didn't like cymbal crashes on the downbeat or much at all. It got in the way of groove. They wanted the consistent, never ending streaming wall of quarter-note pulsing in the song, like a machine. We all agreed once you listen to that album, it's hard to remember to use the cymbals in a conventional way and you get funny looks from your bandmates. LOL

Just one of those weird, idiosyncratic things that set MJ apart from the rest. It works for his music. Not so much anyone else's.

 

[Linderbee]

Man in the Mirror came up on Pandora today. Not terrible.

I'm part of a large group of working drummers who gather annually/seasonally in LA every year. We're getting ready for the big shindig again in February and the topic of Off the Wall came up because we're trying to get JR Robinson (the drummer on that album) to come. Most every working drummer I know -- even the young ones -- credit it as an influence on how to play pop ... very, very simply, just a hair in the back of the pulse.

But the problem is you should NEVER, EVER listen to Off the Wall before a gig because the absence of cymbal hits gets in your head. Early on the MJ/Quincy Jones team didn't like cymbal crashes on the downbeat or much at all. It got in the way of groove. They wanted the consistent, never ending streaming wall of quarter-note pulsing in the song, like a machine. We all agreed once you listen to that album, it's hard to remember to use the cymbals in a conventional way and you get funny looks from your bandmates. LOL

Just one of those weird, idiosyncratic things that set MJ apart from the rest. It works for his music. Not so much anyone else's.

Interesting; thanks for sharing. I'll have to listen to the album with a "new ear".

 

[Bert]

Lots of good stuff in this thread. It's cool that so many see past the fiasco that was his late life and appreciate the things he did musically early in his life.

I like alot of the songs mentioned here and another one I haven't seen that I think is underrated, (it has a great groove) "Rock My World" off Invincible which was pretty much a bad album but I would have this song in my top 10 MJ songs.



#1 I would say Billy Jean. I remember when that song came out and the bass line dropped at the start,,, everyone's heads would just start noddin to the beat.