Final words

[msdundee]

You might after your banning.

At this point in the season your job as mod must be like playing one of those games where things pop up here, there, and everywhere and you try to zap 'em. Nobody keeps score, but you're doing great.

 

[Djaughe]

At this point in the season your job as mod must be like playing one of those games where things pop up here, there, and everywhere and you try to zap 'em. Nobody keeps score, but you're doing great.

Kinda like this?

You must be registered for see images

 

[Mulli]

Kinda like this?

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Starship Troopers?

 

[CardShark]

Dear Suns fans,

I regret that the best playoff series in many years has been spoiled by the aftermath of Robert Horry's foul.

I wanted to express myself as well as some Spurs fans who simply cannot voice our feelings here in San Antonio without fear of reprisal.

The fact that my comments has now resulted in a thread on a spurs website, I feel it is only proper that I no longer express myself here.

Parting words:

I honestly feel that the suspensions could have been avoided very simply without having to amend the rule.

From my vantage point, it could very easily have been said that the two players stepped onto the court before the fight between Horry and Bell. At the very least, the evidence to the contrary is very slim to non-existent. No camera angle was ever produced that could show without any doubt that the two men came onto the floor after the fight occurred.

The problem is the league put the burden of proof onto the Suns to prove a negative, i.e., that the men did NOT step onto the floor when the fight occurred. In this country, a person is presumed innocent until proven guilty.

I know that is the rule in a court of law.

But this same semblance of fairplay and justice should have been followed in a matter as important as this case. The league was going to strip a team of two important players. It would have been fair to make the league prove the men guilty by substantial evidence instead of requiring the men to prove their innocence. Again--no video ever revealed the fact the men stepped onto the court AFTER the fight. If anyone can produce a link to the contrary, then I will stand corrected. I have viewed the video many times. The videos usually are not able to depict the men in conjunction of the Horry/Bell fight. They have separate videos that show only:

1. The men stepping briefly on the court

2. The Bell/Horry fight.

There is no video that showed which came first. This was the very essence of the debate and went to the heart of the rule.

QUOTE]

Ah, but there is a video.

It comes from the backboard camera. It clearly shows Amare and Diaw heading to see to Nash before Cheap Shot Bob threw his elbow at Raja. It shows a perfect angle of the length of the court. It was even more obvious than in any other video that both players were heading directly towards Nash and when Cheap Shot Bob threw the elbow, both players stopped and retreated towards the bench. They retreated on their own and then the coaches grabbed and led them back to the bench. They showed this veiw on ESPN. Stern must have seen this video as well.

 

[msdundee]

Kinda like this?

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Kinda, but more like this:

http://www.azcentral.com/flash/0516_whackahorry/whackahorry.html

 

[Greg Popovich]

Dear Suns fans,

I regret that the best playoff series in many years has been spoiled by the aftermath of Robert Horry's foul.

I wanted to express myself as well as some Spurs fans who simply cannot voice our feelings here in San Antonio without fear of reprisal.

The fact that my comments has now resulted in a thread on a spurs website, I feel it is only proper that I no longer express myself here.

Parting words:

I honestly feel that the suspensions could have been avoided very simply without having to amend the rule.

From my vantage point, it could very easily have been said that the two players stepped onto the court before the fight between Horry and Bell. At the very least, the evidence to the contrary is very slim to non-existent. No camera angle was ever produced that could show without any doubt that the two men came onto the floor after the fight occurred.

The problem is the league put the burden of proof onto the Suns to prove a negative, i.e., that the men did NOT step onto the floor when the fight occurred. In this country, a person is presumed innocent until proven guilty.

I know that is the rule in a court of law.

But this same semblance of fairplay and justice should have been followed in a matter as important as this case. The league was going to strip a team of two important players. It would have been fair to make the league prove the men guilty by substantial evidence instead of requiring the men to prove their innocence. Again--no video ever revealed the fact the men stepped onto the court AFTER the fight. If anyone can produce a link to the contrary, then I will stand corrected. I have viewed the video many times. The videos usually are not able to depict the men in conjunction of the Horry/Bell fight. They have separate videos that show only:

1. The men stepping briefly on the court

2. The Bell/Horry fight.

There is no video that showed which came first. This was the very essence of the debate and went to the heart of the rule.

QUOTE]

Ah, but there is a video.

It comes from the backboard camera. It clearly shows Amare and Diaw heading to see to Nash before Cheap Shot Bob threw his elbow at Raja. It shows a perfect angle of the length of the court. It was even more obvious than in any other video that both players were heading directly towards Nash and when Cheap Shot Bob threw the elbow, both players stopped and retreated towards the bench. They retreated on their own and then the coaches grabbed and led them back to the bench. They showed this veiw on ESPN. Stern must have seen this video as well.

That is absolutely amazing.

My whole theory was that no evidence existed to indict the two players.

If you are correct, then this is even worse.

It would mean that there was conclusive evidence that the players should have been exonerated.

It is bad enough when no evidence exists, but someone is found guilty.

It is even worse when evidence does exist to exonerate someone, which is nevertheless ignored.

I have not seen that video you speak of. If anyone has it, could you post it?

 

[pokerface]

I believe the suspensions were a result of Diaw and Amare walking 20-25 feet towards the altercation leaving the vicinty of thier bench area in the process.

If they were on the court but directly in front of thier bench (within a few feet) I believe there would have been no suspensions.

 

[D-Dogg]

The rule is that an altercation MUST have already been ongoing at the time they stepped onto the court.

That's not the rule as ever I've seen it. There is no timeline of altercation and being on the court. If a bench player is on the court (and should not be anyway) when a fight breaks out, he would be in violation of the rule. For example, if JJ would have started shoving Elston or whatever his name is, then Tim and Bruce Lee would have been in violation of the rule (on the court, not in immediate vicinity of the bench during an altercation) and would have been suspended.

It doesn't matter that they were on the court before the altercation happened...they came on the court when the flagrant foul occured and remained there as the pattycake took place.

 

[SpursUSATeam]

The evidence

On another forum I posted all the evidence needed to silence anyone.

There was NEVER an altercation between Elson and Jones. Video I posted proves this. Duncan was on the court just standing there. NOT moving forward. Since the NBA deemed there was no altercation, the rule doesn't apply and therefore Duncan cannot be suspended.

Horry's body check immediately drew players to him. From a side view, which I also posted, it shows Amare not only walk past Nash and no even look at him, but showed him quickly throw off his towel and head toward the altercation. He was suspended because there was an altercation and not only was he on the court, but heading towards it.

If you all would like, I could post these videos when I get home.

I WILL say the rule is ******** though and should be changed.

 

[D-Dogg]

both players stopped and retreated towards the bench. They retreated on their own and then the coaches grabbed and led them back to the bench. They showed this veiw on ESPN. Stern must have seen this video as well.

Amare did not retreat on his own...he in fact took a step toward the pattycake festival, then was immediately grabbed and sent back to the bench.

Diaw on the other hand, he looked to go back on his own, and never looked to move toward the shovefest. I still am surprised he got popped for it, but Amare was a surefire suspension. I still think it's crazy that so many of you are surprised by it. Angry, sure...think the rule is bs...sure, but you shouldn't be surprised.

 

[ndjmc]

On another forum I posted all the evidence needed to silence anyone.

There was NEVER an altercation between Elson and Jones. Video I posted proves this. Duncan was on the court just standing there. NOT moving forward. Since the NBA deemed there was no altercation, the rule doesn't apply and therefore Duncan cannot be suspended.

Horry's body check immediately drew players to him. From a side view, which I also posted, it shows Amare not only walk past Nash and no even look at him, but showed him quickly throw off his towel and head toward the altercation. He was suspended because there was an altercation and not only was he on the court, but heading towards it.

If you all would like, I could post these videos when I get home.

I WILL say the rule is ******** though and should be changed.

The Rule will be changed. and the topic will come up again and we will debate this crap all over again.....I can see the future..........

 

[D-Dogg]

On another forum I posted all the evidence needed to silence anyone.

Dude, nobody is going to be silenced on this. No matter what you post. It could be crystal clear and each side will claim to see what they want to see. That's the nature of a controversy...the more fuel added to the fire, the more intense it gets. Spraying a squirt gun on it won't douse it out.

 

[D-Dogg]

.....I can see the future..........

What are the lottery numbers? Come on, help a brother out...

 

[ndjmc]

What are the lottery numbers? Come on, help a brother out...

44
13
22
25
32
33
42

ring a bell?

 

[D-Dogg]

ring a bell?

no. unless they are the showtime lakers.

 

[ndjmc]

no. unless they are the showtime lakers.

most are..I thought you would like that...

 

[D-Dogg]

most are..I thought you would like that...

I shall play the numbers.

 

[Arctic]

Why would you stop posting just because another site started a thread about you? It's not like their calling in bomb threats to your hotel. Unless you are John Strong, that guy has similar sentiments and he's getting a lot of flack in the SA media. Are you him?

 

[Covert Rain]

Why would you stop posting just because another site started a thread about you? It's not like their calling in bomb threats to your hotel. Unless you are John Strong, that guy has similar sentiments and he's getting a lot of flack in the SA media. Are you him?

There is no proof it was even a Suns fan. That is just the general assumption. There are more kooks out there in the general population that would do something like that then Suns fans who would do something like that. I wish the trolls would give it a rest. It's funny how Spurs fans are reaching just to make themselves feel better about being the most hated team in the nation right now.

 

[Cheesebeef]

There is no proof it was even a Suns fan. That is just the general assumption. There are more kooks out there in the general population that would do something like that then Suns fans who would do something like that. I wish the trolls would give it a rest.

come on now. some things are just as they seem they are. Too big of a coincidence for it not to be a Suns fan. an incredibly dumb suns fan, but it's really unbelievable to suggest otherwise.

 

[ndjmc]

come on now. some things are just as they seem they are. Too big of a coincidence for it not to be a Suns fan. an incredibly dumb suns fan, but it's really unbelievable to suggest otherwise.

good god I hope no-one would ACTUALLY pose as a Spurs fan...WHO has that kind of time.....

 

[Covert Rain]

come on now. some things are just as they seem they are. Too big of a coincidence for it not to be a Suns fan. an incredibly dumb suns fan, but it's really unbelievable to suggest otherwise.

It probably was. However, to make a general assumption is just as stupid. Not to mention that it has no bearing whatsoever on the fan base of the team. Again, Spurs fans just trying to cling on to any media attention in their favor since there isn't much right now.