Finally somebody gets it: Very good article on Matty Boy

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Listen this isn't to debate who is better right now or justify that Wiz should start Matt Game One. But this is a nice healthy dose of persepctive from a football writer I like quite a bit.

In other words, Like Banks I think we are a little to quick to jump gun...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/don_banks/08/28/leinart/index.html?eref=T1

Passing judgment: It's too soon to call Leinart's NFL career a bust


Last weekend you might have heard that Matt Leinart stunk it up in the "all-important'' third preseason game, throwing three interceptions in 12 passing attempts against the Raiders and posting a microscopic 2.8 passer rating. Predictably, soon thereafter came the anonymously sourced report he was about to lose his job as the Cardinals starting quarterback. He hasn't yet, but that almost seems besides the point.

Such was Leinart's plight in recent days, and some how, some way, even though we haven't even reached the end of August yet, it has become something of a foregone conclusion his days as the No. 1 in Arizona are indeed numbered. The shorthand has quickly become: Leinart's a failure, and the Cardinals are Kurt Warner's team once again. That judgment made, we moved on to other juicier topics like Michael Strahan's potential un-retirement or whether the four-game preseason has finally out-lived its usefulness.

But hold on just a minute. How exactly did things reach such a crossroads so suddenly for Leinart, the draft's 10th overall pick just two years ago? How is it there's this rush to label his era in Arizona almost ended before it has even begun? And yes, almost before it has even begun is entirely apt. Here are a few reminders that might surprise you in the case of Leinart's still-nascent Cardinals career:

• The former Heisman-winning USC quarterback has started only 16 games in his first two years in the desert, the equivalent of one full regular season. He has missed 12 games due to shoulder injuries -- including last year's broken left collarbone, which ended his season after five starts -- made one relief appearance, and sat the bench for three others.

• Leinart, who turned 25 in May, is 7-9 as a Cardinals starter. That's not a great record by any means, but for a team that has made the playoffs just once (1998) in the past 26 years, it's not too shabby. By comparison, in games Leinart hasn't started the past two years, Arizona is 6-10.

• To be sure, Leinart's meltdown against Oakland last Saturday night was hide-the-children's-eyes ugly. But he had passer ratings of 114.1 and 108.9 in the Cardinals' previous two preseason games, with one touchdown pass and nary a turnover. Again, Leinart this year is returning from a major injury to his left shoulder, which is no trivial issue for a guy who makes his living with his left arm.

• Lastly, a check of Leinart's career numbers show he is well within the statistical norm for a young quarterback still learning his craft. He has thrown for 3,194 yards in those 16-plus games, with a 56.0 completion percentage, 13 touchdowns, 16 interceptions and a 71.2 passer rating. As a rookie in 2006, he had 100-plus passer ratings in three of his final six starts, and threw for an NFL rookie-record 405 yards in a November game at Minnesota. But in the what-have-you-done-for-me-lately NFL, especially in this age of instant analysis, can anyone even remember back that far?

All in all, it hardly adds up to anything that makes Leinart worthy of a hasty assignment to the scrap heap. While one can rightfully claim the 37-year-old Warner probably gives the Cardinals a better chance of winning games right now, Arizona head coach Ken Whisenhunt at the least will be keeping Leinart on a very short leash when it comes to the starting role. The quick take that has morphed into conventional wisdom is it was Leinart's job to lose, and he appears to be losing it.

But even if that is the case, and Leinart doesn't wind up starting Week 1 this season, I'm amazed so many seem to have already reached the conclusion he can't possibly end up succeeding in Arizona. What we've seen so far certainly shouldn't relegate him to failure status at the tender age of 25, with just those 16 starts under his belt. That's way too harsh, way too soon, and lacking in anything resembling long-term perspective.
Thinking about Leinart's deteriorating situation this week led me to recall another highly regarded collegiate quarterback from California, who, like Leinart, was drafted in the NFL's top 10 and then struggled for the better part of his first three seasons before finding his stride in the league. Both Leinart, who went 10th in 2006, and Trent Dilfer, selected 6th by Tampa Bay in 1994, were the second quarterbacks taken in their draft classes, behind Tennessee's Vince Young (No. 3) and Washington's Heath Shuler (No. 3), respectively.

I was a Bucs beat writer covering the young Dilfer, who started just two games as a rookie in '94, and then made all 16 of Tampa Bay's starts in 1995. In his first 18 often-ragged NFL starts, Dilfer threw for five touchdowns, 24 interceptions, absorbed 55 sacks, completed 52.7 of his passes for 3,207 yards, and compiled QB abysmal ratings of 36.3 and 60.1 in those two seasons. In other words, his career got off to a considerably worse start than Leinart's, with both passers happening to toil for long downtrodden, non-winning franchises.

...theres a second page but you'll have to go the link cuz I can't post the whole article.....
 

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Massive dose of common sense.:raccoon:
 
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Good perspective. Another year of learning and growth won't hurt, wherever it occurs. A little humble-pie for a play-boy start seems right, too.

Now, we will see if there is any real substance to all those stats.
 

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Great article. I think he nailed it. It's way to soon to make the call on Matt. Give the guy a break. Lets remember, Kurt Warner was cut from his first training camp and bounced around for years before he did anything. I like Warner and think he has earned the starting position but Leinart has all the makings of a good QB we just have to give him time.
 
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Since when did numbers tell the whole story?? :shrug:

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

As one of the Warner supporters I'm guessing thats toungue in cheek. Because that's all you guys bring to the table.

27 TDS!

7TDS in the last two games!

#5 Passing offense!

89.9 Passer rating!

#2 Red Zone efficiency!

Except the only numbers that SHOULD matter are the ones bolded in the story above.
 

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similiar exchange on ESPNs podcast with Jeremy Green -- had on my favorite ESPN writer, Mike Sando

I paraphrase:

Green: with Warner starting for the Cards, doesnt this signal the end of the Matt Leinart era in Arizona (tone was that of a statement rather than a question)

Sando: No. (a little derisively) Matt is under contract at reasonable amounts for three more years. They can be patient with him. Now if Matt throws in the towel and stops working, then your right. But not until then.
 

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82 and Campos, so funny as to almost not be sad...but the responses still are. Seriously, how do you type it with a straight face? I'm not saying the information is all world, or that Matt should start, or anything. It's just sad that any perspective not agreeing with you guys is so egregiously wrong.
 

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But even if that is the case, and Leinart doesn't wind up starting Week 1 this season, I'm amazed so many seem to have already reached the conclusion he can't possibly end up succeeding in Arizona. What we've seen so far certainly shouldn't relegate him to failure status at the tender age of 25, with just those 16 starts under his belt. That's way too harsh, way too soon, and lacking in anything resembling long-term perspective.

EXACTLY!

This was my only gripe about the QB situation. Not who should start but the lack of "long-term perspective" by so many....INCLUDING some sport writers, and mostly sports writers from ESPN.

WOW! This all sounds sooo familiar....not my words tho. I will let Dilfer do the talking.

- "Sixteen starts into his career, to have people already saying he doesn't have it, that's ludicrous,'' the recently retired Dilfer told me in a phone interview this week.

- Dilfer takes pains to note he's not saying Leinart necessarily deserves to play ahead of the more productive Warner right now, or that Arizona will ****** his development if they don't keep him as their starter for all 16 games this season. He concedes "the guy in front of him is probably better right now, and Leinart probably would be better off for sitting a while this year.''

- "They keep talking about his lack of arm strength, but if that was the only component, you think people wouldn't have given up on Steve Young early on, or even Joe Montana?'' Dilfer said. "Are you kidding me? Those guys didn't have big arms, but that didn't stop them from being Hall of Fame quarterbacks.

- "There's no freedom to fail any more for the young quarterback in the NFL,'' Dilfer said. "And every young quarterback has to have some freedom to fail. They can be told and shown what to work on, but when they fail at it, it can't be the end of the world. It's part of the learning curve. You need the freedom to learn from those failures, and learn how to get back up.
 
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So do we go with the QB with the most potential or the QB who has had the best preseason so far? It's a crap shoot either way but I do trust Whiz to sort it out.
 

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82 and Campos, so funny as to almost not be sad...but the responses still are. Seriously, how do you type it with a straight face? I'm not saying the information is all world, or that Matt should start, or anything. It's just sad that any perspective not agreeing with you guys is so egregiously wrong.

Huh?? I simply asked about #'s telling the whole story...

FWIW, I've never used #'s to support my position on Warner. I simply call it as I see it... I'm a season ticket holder. I go to the games. And what I see is a kid who was supposed to be the most NFL ready QB to ever come out of college, consistently demonstrate that he is not at all ready for the NFL.
The author of this article tosses out a bunch of stats and while they all suck, he attempts to argue that Leinart's suckiness is not as bad as some other QB's...

IMO, the team does not look nearly as smooth, does not move nearly as well when Leinart is in versus Warner. Period...

Leinart to me lacks arm strength. He lacks the guts to make calls and on the fly and throw the ball down field. Playing QB in the NFL is not always about hitting a wide open receiver. More often than not, you need to make reads and progressions, and get a ball into a very small, risky place... IMO, Matt has never shown an ability to do this...
 

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The author of this article tosses out a bunch of stats and while they all suck, he attempts to argue that Leinart's suckiness is not as bad as some other QB's...
You're kidding, right??? Yeah, there were some sucky stats in there, but "all"??? What article did you read?
But he had passer ratings of 114.1 and 108.9 in the Cardinals' previous two preseason games, with one touchdown pass and nary a turnover.

• Lastly, a check of Leinart's career numbers show he is well within the statistical norm for a young quarterback still learning his craft. He has thrown for 3,194 yards in those 16-plus games, with a 56.0 completion percentage, 13 touchdowns...

As a rookie in 2006, he had 100-plus passer ratings in three of his final six starts, and threw for an NFL rookie-record 405 yards in a November game at Minnesota.
 

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You're kidding, right??? Yeah, there were some sucky stats in there, but "all"??? What article did you read?

Passer ratings in preseason are worthless Linda... As I said, I'm not even using #'s to support my concerns about Leinart or my support for Warner...
I'm simply going by what I see on the field...

Time will tell and as I've always said, I really hope Matt proves me wrong... Thus far, he's far from doing so...
 

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Very good read, and I wish the fat contracts that these rookie QB's get didn't force them to the field to soon. I believe that you can learn from the bench as in the old days. I still think that it will click for Leinart either this year or in the future.
 

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Any one that puts up Matt and Kurt's win loss records losses all credibility to me. Kurt and Matt both started games but barley played nether should get the win or the loss for the game. So I guess Matt lost the 1st preseason game even though he played good and the game was 7 to 7 after he stopped playing. There where to many games like that in the regular season to just give Matt or Kurt the win or the loss just because they started.

For me this is simple.
Kurt is 37 and likes to fumble but today is better than Matt.
Matt is young and has a lot of up side that he has not shown yet.

The part that is not simple is play for today or play for tomorrow?
IMHO
 
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Passer ratings in preseason are worthless Linda... As I said, I'm not even using #'s to support my concerns about Leinart or my support for Warner...
I'm simply going by what I see on the field...

Time will tell and as I've always said, I really hope Matt proves me wrong... Thus far, he's far from doing so...

I guess my gripe is why wouldn't you be a little bit idealistic in looking at Matt? He hasn't looked great but he hasn't been unequivically bad (save last week) where you should be so dead against him ever being the answer.

I mean I understand wanting Warner to start right now because you think he gives us the best chance to win. I just don't get the amount of hate this guy generates from some of you?

I guess he's kinda polarizing but to me its either two things:

1) You hate SC and/or Hollywood and think they are overatted and you feel Matt epitomizes both.

2) You hate because you think he is a party boy and a player and don't like his celebrity profile (which is waaaay overblown)

Otherwise I just don't get it. Wanting Warner to start is one thing but being so sure Matt is garbage and calling him a bust already just seems uniformed.

2)
 

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I guess my gripe is why wouldn't you be a little bit idealistic in looking at Matt? He hasn't looked great but he hasn't been unequivically bad (save last week) where you should be so dead against him ever being the answer.

I mean I understand wanting Warner to start right now because you think he gives us the best chance to win. I just don't get the amount of hate this guy generates from some of you?

I guess he's kinda polarizing but to me its either two things:

1) You hate SC and/or Hollywood and think they are overatted and you feel Matt epitomizes both.

2) You hate because you think he is a party boy and a player and don't like his celebrity profile (which is waaaay overblown)

Otherwise I just don't get it. Wanting Warner to start is one thing but being so sure Matt is garbage and calling him a bust already just seems uniformed.

2)

Good lord...

Where have I ever inmplied that I "hate" Matt?? I actually feel a bit sorry for the kid...
Hey, as I've said way too many times now - I hope he proves me wrong!! I'm a Cards fan and it would be awesome if Matt somehow grew into a quality, NFL starter...
However, I fail to see the signs that would suggest that he is up to the task. Sustaining the intensity, the commitment, the leadership and the production required to be a fulltime NFL starter... Also, I think physically Matt has some issues...

I don't "hate" Matt... I don't think he is "garbage" and have never used those terms or anything else close to them! I don't have anything against USC... Heck, I'm an east coast kid so USC means nothing to me...
I have very serious doubts about the kid. Always have... And nothing he has done has made me feel any different... It's just that simple...
 
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Huh?? I simply asked about #'s telling the whole story...

FWIW, I've never used #'s to support my position on Warner. I simply call it as I see it... I'm a season ticket holder. I go to the games. And what I see is a kid who was supposed to be the most NFL ready QB to ever come out of college,

This was your assumption or some Armchair QB's assumption. Because thats the mantra you heard doen't mean its automatically right. The truth is that 99% of QB's struggle. Maybe it was more of a transition because he doesn't have as much overpowering help here as he did at SC - that doesn't mean he wont eventually get it consistently demonstrate that he is not at all ready for the NFL.

The author of this article tosses out a bunch of stats and while they all suck, he attempts to argue that Leinart's suckiness is not as bad as some other QB's...

As i mentioned the only stat that should matter in the article is 7-9 and 6-10. That doesn't tell everything but guess who started the other games. Thats not a coincidence.

IMO, the team does not look nearly as smooth, does not move nearly as well when Leinart is in versus Warner. Period...

I agree the passing offense is better. But there is just sooo much more to the QB position then that. QB's should be dictated on helping the team win more then passer rating. I think we can all agree on that. To me the untrained eye says Warner is better becasue they see the ball flying around and the subsequent numbers. I'mnot even saying Matt does or doesn't give us the better chance to win but to just look at Warner and love his numbers and ignore the bad stuff he brings to the table is just lunacy.

Leinart to me lacks arm strength.

Im glad you brought this up and I want to address it. Failing to even recognize the small arms of Montana, Young, and others. To me arm strength or the perception of it comes with knowing where to go with the ball. This is why i was so encouraged by Matts play in the New Orleans game becasue I don't know how you can watch that and think he doesn't have the arm needed to succeed in this league. He had real zip on 3-4 of those passes and was hitting guys in stride. I was beginning to think he finally got it but when the Raiders threw some junk at him he regressed. Which isn't unlearnable. As a point of reference look at Tom Brady. Tom was thought to have very little arm strength even his first couple years in the league but especially out of UM. You will never here that now. I have heard people say he gained arm strength since then. What a joke? Its that he has mastered the offense and knows where to go with the ball.

He lacks the guts to make calls and on the fly and throw the ball down field.

He led the team on two game winning drives in a little over 4 games last year against the two best defenses we playes and threw maybe one of the most famous audible passes in CFB history against ND on 4th and 22. He has guts and makes the right decisions and while he will never have the arm of Favre I dont think he needs it to complete balls downfield provided he puts it in the right place.

often than not, you need to make reads and progressions, and get a ball into a very small, risky place... IMO, Matt has never shown an ability to do this...I think you have selective memory and have placed unrealistic expectations on the kid based on your preconceptions. IMO he hasn't lit the world on fire but he is not necessarily off the track yet either.

I'm going to tear this up if you don't mind...
 
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Good lord...

Where have I ever inmplied that I "hate" Matt?? I actually feel a bit sorry for the kid...
Hey, as I've said way too many times now - I hope he proves me wrong!! I'm a Cards fan and it would be awesome if Matt somehow grew into a quality, NFL starter...
However, I fail to see the signs that would suggest that he is up to the task. Sustaining the intensity, the commitment, the leadership and the production required to be a fulltime NFL starter... Also, I think physically Matt has some issues...

I don't "hate" Matt... I don't think he is "garbage" and have never used those terms or anything else close to them! I don't have anything against USC... Heck, I'm an east coast kid so USC means nothing to me...
I have very serious doubts about the kid. Always have... And nothing he has done has made me feel any different... It's just that simple...

Im not saying you in particular - I just don't get where alot of the delight some people have taken in his struggles comes from. As a Cardinal fan its baffleing.
 
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If the fans in Pittsburgh had a vote in the early 70's, they'd have dumped their first round QB in his first three years. He stunk!

But management stuck by their choice and it was instrumental in 4 Super Bowl victories.

And the bald comedian, Terry Bradshaw - has his bust in the Hall of Fame, and a hell of a gig on TV.
 

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Passer ratings in preseason are worthless Linda... As I said, I'm not even using #'s to support my concerns about Leinart or my support for Warner...
I'm simply going by what I see on the field...

Time will tell and as I've always said, I really hope Matt proves me wrong... Thus far, he's far from doing so...
Only one of those stats are preseason; the rest are regular season, and I never said you were using stats. I'm protesting YOUR assertion that the stats mentioned in the article "all suck". They don't. Matt's stats aren't as bad as everyone says they are.

Admit you were wrong to say all the stats in the article suck, and then I can let it go! :p
 

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I think all further QB threads should be moved to the Politics & Religion Board.

This is a great article, but mainly because I agree with its premise. The one's who do not agree with it will be derisive. The only nice thing about the current situation is, that by only reading who it is that is making the post, I know with 100% certainty what the post will contain.

This has cut my time spent on the site down considerably, and has had the added benefit of making me far more productive at work. :)

JTS
 
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I think all further QB threads should be moved to the Politics & Religion Board.

This is a great article, but mainly because I agree with its premise. The one's who do not agree with it will be derisive. The only nice thing about the current situation is, that by only reading who it is that is making the post, I know with 100% certainty what the post will contain.

This has cut my time spent on the site down considerably, and has had the added benefit of making me far more productive at work. :)

JTS

What you wanted me to post a "Kurt Warner should start"article?;)
 

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