Finally - Something to talk about!

[MaoTosiFanClub]

What pisses me off is why we didn't play McCown last year after it was obvious that we didn't want Jake back and the season was lost. Instead we kept trotting out Jake, thus giving Shanahan more film material to judge Jake (who had no future in AZ), and Rod and Mac less film material to judge McCown ( who possibly has a future in AZ, even as a backup). I'm not saying we would have won more games w/ Josh starting all year, but at least we might have been saved the Blake experiment and all the money it cost. Again poor coaching and management.

 

[wierwolf]

Josh made up for it. Give the guy a break. It was the just the beginning of his first start against a very fast and aggressive defense. Why did Carolina quit their run attack? Hello.... Davis was injured. Anyways. I say bring Eli or whomever and they can compete and let the best QB win... Competition generally brings out the best in folks. Of course though the team maybe lean torwards eli more because they will be paying him top dollar.

 

[red desert]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Finally - Something to talk about!

Originally posted by Ouchie-Z-Clown
rattled may be a poor choice of words. it was a gaff. a beginning of the game jitters-type gaff? maybe. but in the end, all excuses aside, he scored for the other team. a score that cost us the game (we'd have won if that pass wasn't thrown). the defense did its job in this game (except for barrett - thanks for providing the sideline over and over again and keeping the eli dream alive!). if mccown is the answer, he has to win that game (eventually, i understand it's his first start).

overall, i think he showed promise. he's no second coming of elway though, who said that?!?

We lost the game because Mac didn't give his players the chance to win. Specifically, choosing to run the clock out with over two minutes left in the half, when, we'd been moving the ball on Carolina.

Okay, Rackers fg didn't help either.

 

[Tangodnzr]

I maintain that it was never a lock, by any means, that Jake was gone....until he actually was. Even up to the time he signed in Denver, and AFTER Kordell had come and gone with his interview, Jake was still at least somewhat of an option, to return.

I have said many times, and will say it again...that even though I would have liked to have seen a little more of McCown during those final few games, he wasn't ready for it yet, and probably only would have accomplished nothing more than prove it, at the time.

I honestly don't think Mac played Jake just to make himself look good, but because he still gave the team the best chance to pull out a win...which they did against Detroit, and finished out (other than the final game against Denver) playing at least competitively...and thusly salvaged at least a little self respect and confidence for the rest of the team to build on coming into this year.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Tango, the writing was on the wall for a long time that Jake was gone. Whether you were in denial or what, he was outta here. Yes, McCown probably wasn't ready last year. But what's the point of playing a guy who has no future with the team? The Bears realize that Grossman probably doesn't give them the best chance to win games this year yet he is playing. You didn't see Shanahan play Griese last year after he knew he wasn't going to keep him in Denver.

And if the point of playing Jake last year in meaningless games was to build confidence in the team, it was the dumbest move ever considering how Rod basically blew the team up in the offseason.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Finally - Something to talk about!

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
This is a perfect example of how a lot of people here tend to twist things around to fit their own take or perception ....or lack of.

I was the one who said that watching McCown yesterday, reminded me of a young John Elway, in physical appearance on the field, mannerisms, and style of play. That's all. I didn't say anything at all about McCown being the "second coming of him" at all.

i wasn't twisting anything. i was just referring to beef's comment. i haven't read the rest of the board yet. i had no idea who wrote it and what the context was.

 

[JeffGollin]

Sorry, guys. To say that McCown wasn't rattled when he threw that interception is denying reality.

Whether or not his shirt was grabbed, he tried to make that throw off his back foot. He shouldn't have thrown it under those circumstances. A more seasoned NFL QB wouldn't have made the throw.

Trying to shift some of the blame to LJ whiffing on his block reminds me of when everyone was saying "No big deal that we didn't fix what's broke at CB. Barrett is a shutdown corner and Hill despite his lack of speed is making plays in preseason."

When we rationalize like that, we gloss over what needs to be done in order to win. And then we face the same problems one year later.

That doesn't mean Josh can't learn from his mistakes and mature into a very good QB with additional experience, but I think it would be a mistake to say that he played flawlessly yesterday.

He played well enough for us to be optimistic and hopeful, but he still has a lot to prove.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by JeffGollin
Sorry, guys. To say that McCown wasn't rattled when he threw that interception is denying reality.

Whether or not his shirt was grabbed, he tried to make that throw off his back foot. He shouldn't have thrown it under those circumstances. A more seasoned NFL QB wouldn't have made the throw.

Trying to shift some of the blame to LJ whiffing on his block reminds me of when everyone was saying "No big deal that we didn't fix what's broke at CB. Barrett is a shutdown corner and Hill despite his lack of speed is making plays in preseason."

When we rationalize like that, we gloss over what needs to be done in order to win. And then we face the same problems one year later.

That doesn't mean Josh can't learn from his mistakes and mature into a very good QB with additional experience, but I think it would be a mistake to say that he played flawlessly yesterday.

He played well enough for us to be optimistic and hopeful, but he still has a lot to prove.

bingo.

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by JeffGollin
Sorry, guys. To say that McCown wasn't rattled when he threw that interception is denying reality.

Whether or not his shirt was grabbed, he tried to make that throw off his back foot. He shouldn't have thrown it under those circumstances. A more seasoned NFL QB wouldn't have made the throw.

Trying to shift some of the blame to LJ whiffing on his block reminds me of when everyone was saying "No big deal that we didn't fix what's broke at CB. Barrett is a shutdown corner and Hill despite his lack of speed is making plays in preseason."

When we rationalize like that, we gloss over what needs to be done in order to win. And then we face the same problems one year later.

That doesn't mean Josh can't learn from his mistakes and mature into a very good QB with additional experience, but I think it would be a mistake to say that he played flawlessly yesterday.

He played well enough for us to be optimistic and hopeful, but he still has a lot to prove.

Favre, a more seasoned QB if there ever was one, would have tried that throw...except he may have been more successful.

I agree with your post in that as long as McCown learns something from that INT, then he is a step ahead already. I didn't really see it ias him throwing off his back foot since to me it appeared as though in the process of getting hit it altered his throwing stance...but I am not 100% certain I saw it right.

In the big picture, McCown played well...biggest problem is the Cards lost. I hope to see maturation from this week into next.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
and thusly salvaged at least a little self respect and confidence for the rest of the team to build on coming into this year.

did this team show up w/ any self-respect or confidence this year? no. so in essence, playing jake did nothing.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Originally posted by Ouchie-Z-Clown
did this team show up w/ any self-respect or confidence this year? no. so in essence, playing jake did nothing.

...........and of course you knew that, all along. And yes, it was patently obvious that this team started the season down on itself, with a total lacking of self respect.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

 

[Evil Ash]

Originally posted by JeffGollin
Sorry, guys. To say that McCown wasn't rattled when he threw that interception is denying reality.

Whether or not his shirt was grabbed, he tried to make that throw off his back foot. He shouldn't have thrown it under those circumstances. A more seasoned NFL QB wouldn't have made the throw.

Trying to shift some of the blame to LJ whiffing on his block reminds me of when everyone was saying "No big deal that we didn't fix what's broke at CB. Barrett is a shutdown corner and Hill despite his lack of speed is making plays in preseason."

When we rationalize like that, we gloss over what needs to be done in order to win. And then we face the same problems one year later.

That doesn't mean Josh can't learn from his mistakes and mature into a very good QB with additional experience, but I think it would be a mistake to say that he played flawlessly yesterday.

He played well enough for us to be optimistic and hopeful, but he still has a lot to prove.

My thoughts exactly!

My reasoning for the INT was that Josh basically tried to force a throw when he should have taken a sack. In short, a mistake that would be expected from a QB making his first NFL start.

What you hope happens in those circumstances is that he learns not to do that again. He didn't! Which leads to me to thew conclusion that he has a willingness to learn and will change from past mistakes. That is definately a good sign!

So will he continue to learn and improve?! That's what the final 2 games are needed to find out!

 

[daytripper]

McCown seems to have himself between a rock and a hard place. Last season fans were calling for him to replace Plummer. Now theres conjecture that he'll be replaced next year by a rookie after only 3 starts this year. Certainly the jury is still out and will be until opening day next year. I would say regardless of whom we draft that there is better than a 50 % chance that McCown will be our starter next Sept.
What if he performs as well or better in the next two games as he did yesterday,does ownership step away and take a QB or leverage for more picks?
To me it wouldnt make sense to tie up 10 mil in cap space and give up the possibility of 2 impact players if McCown continues to show improvement. Besides is Manning a franchise QB or just one of the top two at his postion in this years draft?
Hopefully the coaching staff ,players and the fans give him a chance to see what hes made of these last 3 games. If he pans out it could mean a draft bonanza this spring.

GBR

 

[DevonCardsFan]

My fear is McCown will play well enough these next 3 games, the Cards decide not to upgrade at the QB position and end upwhiffing on landing a stud QB. I already see it happening Cards trade down for more picks, giving up the right to Manning etc. McCown ends up sucking and the Cards draft choices they traded down for end up mediocre. Remember all the talk of Leftwich or Suggs around this time, we were drooling for one of them to fall to us, we end up passing on both and getting the consolation prizes in Johnson and Pace. I'm really rooting against McCown, he is no franchise savior.

 

[Brian]

Originally posted by JeffGollin
Sorry, guys. To say that McCown wasn't rattled when he threw that interception is denying reality.

Whether or not his shirt was grabbed, he tried to make that throw off his back foot. He shouldn't have thrown it under those circumstances. A more seasoned NFL QB wouldn't have made the throw.

Trying to shift some of the blame to LJ whiffing on his block reminds me of when everyone was saying "No big deal that we didn't fix what's broke at CB. Barrett is a shutdown corner and Hill despite his lack of speed is making plays in preseason."

When we rationalize like that, we gloss over what needs to be done in order to win. And then we face the same problems one year later.

That doesn't mean Josh can't learn from his mistakes and mature into a very good QB with additional experience, but I think it would be a mistake to say that he played flawlessly yesterday.

He played well enough for us to be optimistic and hopeful, but he still has a lot to prove.

Wow! It really is interesting that two people can watch the exact same play and come away with two different takes on it.

From what I saw, that throw was already in motion, there was no way he could have stopped it (Al Wallace?) was pulling on his jersey, and no quarterback in the league could have had a different end result. I don't care if you are Brett Favre, or Jim Druckenmiller. I didn't blame Josh at all, and I did blame Shelton. Hell of a way to start a game, and I thought he came back nicely.