Fines for Flopping!!

[btimsah]

It's kind of sad they have to make Flopping a "foul" because the refs are too stupid not to call it. I mean.. I'm not sure this is gonna help anything. Let's say Shaq backs down Oberto and Oberto goes falling.. It's up to the ref's to still determine - was that a flop or a charge? They will still screw it up..

 

[shazaam6]

I disagree. I think fines will be affective, especially if they come out tough in the beginning of the year. Fines have certainly worked in other areas like referee criticism. Just look to Spurs comments after game 4 in regards to the Fisher foul. I do agree with you that there should be more punishment for repeat offenders. Perhaps something like a game suspension after a certain amount of offenses, sort of like the technical foul rules.

Also, it is difficult for refs to see flops in real time. A lot of times they only see the end result of the flop. It keeps the refs from having to make yet another judgment call.

Yes, the players have to just not do it. It ruins the integrity of the game. Like cheating in golf, it just isn't done and won't be tolerated period.

If upon review a flop is determined the flopper must forfeit 1/4 of a games pay for first offense, 1/2 for the second, 3/4 for the third, full games pay for the fourth, suspended and forfeit the games pay for the fifth.

This would keep the players that make superstar money from flopping as well as rookies. Even if the team picked up the players fine, the suspension kicker for the fifth offense would stop the flop.

If they are lenient in any way this won't work.

 

[MigratingOsprey]

i like the theory, but it will be hard to enforce - easier on a tape review in real time though which is why I think we see a fine vs foul situation

 

[Irish]

Of course, let us not forget that Steve Nash and Raja Bell are two of the more prolific floppers in the league.

I suppose I'm a homer, but I don't see anything approaching the extreme flopping from Raja and Steve that is common for the Spurs. Steve in particular takes charges from vastly bigger players and I'd be surpised if he could avoid getting knocked down. Raja probably exaggerates the contact some, but he's too good a defender to take himself out of the play by flopping on phantom charges the way Manu does.

In any case, I don't think there is much evidence of the Suns flopping on offense. It's frustrating because the way Nash gets abused, it seems unfair that the Spurs get so many favorable calls on stuff they do on the other end all the time.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Of course, let us not forget that Steve Nash and Raja Bell are two of the more prolific floppers in the league.

Theyre looking at "clear cases" of flopping.

Nothing Nash and Bell do are as blatant or egregious as what the new rule will be the focus of.

 

[Cheesewater]

I'm glad the NBA is trying to do SOMEthing about it. Man, the Spurs fans must really think the universe is out to get them now!

 

[Mulli]

Theyre looking at "clear cases" of flopping.

Nothing Nash and Bell do are as blatant or egregious as what the new rule will be the focus of.

Are they going to somehow stop the refs from encouraging the blatant or egregious flops?

 

[MigratingOsprey]

Theyre looking at "clear cases" of flopping.

Nothing Nash and Bell do are as blatant or egregious as what the new rule will be the focus of.

the first one is poetic

http://youtube.com/watch?v=xNN9ZiH38fs&feature=related

more than raja - but kind of funny

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8BjhfwVY_p8&feature=related

and this is a nice one from everyone's favorite bob..........

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8ukde193ivM&feature=related

 

[Ryanwb]

Bowen will end up owing the NBA money at the end of next season

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

In the first one Bell does a great job of selling a clear foul. No clear cut floppage imo. If Manu hadn't shoved his elbow into raja then it would have definitely been fine-worthy.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

In the first one Bell does a great job of selling a clear foul. No clear cut floppage imo. If Manu hadn't shoved his elbow into raja then it would have definitely been fine-worthy.

it was something that COULD have been called a foul, but wouldn't have been if bell hadn't flung himself backward. but the fling is definitely acting. i'd like to get rid of that too, even if it's our player doing it. the point of "fouls" are to get rid of physical contact that produces an advantage, not all physical contact. manu's contact didn't really provide a physical advantage until bell threw himself on the floor. the more i think of it, the more i'm disgusted by bell's act. christ, can't these guys play like men?

 

[MigratingOsprey]

to me that first one is pretty clear flopping - it's not everyday you get people falling with nothing around them like the horry one

this is exactly the issue you will have though and the reason i'm happy keeping it at fines for now

i know that we practiced taking charges growing up - there are times on plays like that where you can stand in there, take a full impact and make the play look a lot less clear

however, by hitting the floor you sell the call

if you are 6'10 280 and a little guard is driving an elbow into your waist all game sometimes you have to react to draw attention to it - nature doesnt' always do all the work

players should be able to act a little in order to show impact - however defining when it goes to full out flopping is a little much

there is no reason to hit the floor on essentially a hand check from a guy your own size

 

[TJ]

This is great and all, but still the real issue is the quality of officiating in this league. If officials would get these calls right in the first place, there would be no discussions during the offseason about "flops" and "hack-a-shaq" etc.

Take care of the issue at its root.

 

[LakeShowMan]

Not sure how they will enforce it, but if they do it fairly, half the Spurs might have to find a second jobto pay their fines.

 

[tobiazz]

I hate to see new rules because it usually means selective enforcement. The following quote is rather extreme for the situation but sums up the problem with having too many rules.

There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Reardon, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be
much easier to deal with.

i.e. More rules means more chances for the officials to apply them unevenly.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Oh Christ, did he just quote Atlas Shrugged?

I'm out.

 

[jagu]

Bowen will end up owing the NBA money at the end of next season

Parkers worse IMO. Bowen just kicks ass on the court like a kungfu movie.

 

[Irish]

Oh Christ, did he just quote Atlas Shrugged?

I'm out.

Atlas shrugged, but didn't fall over.

Let me try to categorize alledged flops:

1. Phantom contact - pure

2. Negligable but clear contact - 95% of the time would not be a called as a foul without the flop. Ref reacts to the flop and not the contact.

3 Real foul but the ref might have missed it if not exaggerated at least somewhat.

4. Unavoidable due to the nature of the contact

I don't think there is much debate over #1 which should be outlawed and #4 which should not be penalized. The issue is figuring out how to deal with #2 and #3.

 

[mojorizen7]

Another idiotic decision by the NBA.

A FINE for flopping? That's all?? What kids, you don't think that Bruce Bowne's "fine" won't be picked up by the Spurs organization? How are "fines" suppose to matter when flops can potentially effect the outcome of the game?

Flops should be technicals. That would put an immediate end to the flopping strategy.

Exactly.

 

[cly2tw]

Guys, they said "fines", meaning to make a ruling after carefully reviewing it.

Raja "flop" was associated with a correct call, no fine.

Manu flop vs Walton resulted in foul called on him, thus associated with a correct call despite his intention of manipulation. He got the "punishment" on court already, so no further fine required.

Horry flop resulted in the wrong call on Boozer: Fine to be imposed.

 

[msdundee]

www.serioussportsnewsnetwork.com

Ginobili’s career in question

LOS ANGELES, CA — Already bounced from the Western Conference Finals in only five games by the Lakers, bad news keeps on coming for the defending champion San Antonio Spurs.

Guard Manu Ginobili was injured in an off-court incident late Thursday night, leaving him not only questionable for the Summer Olympics and the start of training camp next year, but possibly facing the end of his career.

According to an SSNN source in Los Angeles, Ginobili was watching a late-night re-run of SportsCenter in his L.A. hotel room after Thursday’s loss when he heard a report that the NBA will begin fining players for flopping. That same source had Ginobili immediately falling to floor violently, suffering serious head and neck injuries.

“I think it’s pretty serious, but I don’t really know,” said head coach Greg Popovich, when reached Friday morning. “As long as Manu is awarded two free throws for the fall, I think we can all agree it will have been worth it.”

Ginobili refused to comment, but many of his teammates came to his defense.

“It was clear to me that the NBA got a piece of his arm on the shot,” said Tony Parker. “You know, even though he wasn’t shooting and it’s ridiculous to personify something like the NBA. I think I’ve confused myself… I’m married to Eva Longoria, did you know that? And I have a French-language hip hop album that I think you’d really enjoy.”

Brent Barry said he is “positive” Ginobili was fouled, even though he wasn’t there for the incident. Spurs superstar Tim Duncan also expressed sympathy for his fallen comrade.

“I can definitely feel his pain,” Duncan said. “Manu got blindsided, and that’s just not fair. It’d be like if the NBA started cracking down on incessant whining – I’d absolutely feel that. You can’t come after a guy like the league did and not expect him to get injured.”

Manu’s agent would not give out any specifics, but did say that if the injury – or the rule change – turns out to be career-ending, Ginobili can always fall back on soccer, where his style of play would be more appreciated.

 

[BC867]

www.serioussportsnewsnetwork.com

Ginobili’s career in question

LOS ANGELES, CA — Already bounced from the Western Conference Finals in only five games by the Lakers, bad news keeps on coming for the defending champion San Antonio Spurs.

Guard Manu Ginobili was injured in an off-court incident late Thursday night, leaving him not only questionable for the Summer Olympics and the start of training camp next year, but possibly facing the end of his career.

According to an SSNN source in Los Angeles, Ginobili was watching a late-night re-run of SportsCenter in his L.A. hotel room after Thursday’s loss when he heard a report that the NBA will begin fining players for flopping. That same source had Ginobili immediately falling to floor violently, suffering serious head and neck injuries.

'Love it.

 

[Irish]

Not credible. What really happened was that he fell across the room and into a maid and caused a knee injury.

 

[Mulletino]

Kobe went into Manu's room and tried to rape him.
Manu flopped away, and twisted his ankle trying to escape Kobe.

 

[JCSunsfan]

According to this

No change in the way that the refs call the game.

Evaluations will be made after, and then fines assessed.

The onus will not be on the refs but the players. OK by me as long as fines are proportional to the size of the player's contract. Otherwise, you'll have some players who can afford to flop, and some who can't.

BTW. Yes, Raja sold the foul. But YES Manu pushed off. You have to sell it with the Spurs, because they constantly do it when the refs are blocked out.