Finley?

[JCSunsfan]

Sources: Mavs may waive Finley

01:04 AM CDT on Friday, June 24, 2005

By EDDIE SEFKO / The Dallas Morning News

Michael Finley's career with the Mavericks could come to an end this summer because of a clause in the new collective-bargaining agreement that could save owner Mark Cuban as much as $51 million.

Two sources said Thursday that Finley, who has been with the Mavericks longer than any other current player, would be targeted if the Mavericks exercise this cost-cutting option.

The new one-time loophole allows a team to waive a player and be relieved of any luxury-tax responsibility attached to that player's contract. Finley is owed $51,796,875 over the next three seasons. Cuban would still have to pay that in salary.

But because the Mavericks' payroll is so high, Cuban also has to pay a dollar for every dollar that they are over the luxury tax. By jettisoning Finley, he could knock $15 million off his luxury tax next season. The Mavericks were well over the $61 million luxury-tax threshold last season. Essentially, the remainder of Finley's $51 million contract could cost Cuban $102 million if they remain over the luxury-tax threshold, which is probable if Finley is retained.

The Mavericks have discussed the issue and are aware of the implications. It represents a chance to take a huge step toward the club being in a better financial situation for future player dealings. If the Mavericks execute this option, they would not be allowed to re-sign Finley for the length of the contract.

Mavericks officials would not comment specifically about the possibility of taking this measure with Finley, who has 8 ½ years of service with the team and has been called the heart and soul of the franchise for many years.

"Under the new CBA, a player could be released and you would save that money off the tax," president of basketball operations Donnie Nelson said. "Every team in the NBA has a player who fits that mode."

Finley could not be reached for comment Thursday.

Finley fits the description as a player with a maximum contract and three more years left on his deal. He is coming off his least-productive season as a Maverick, averaging 15.7 points and 4.1 rebounds and shooting 42.7 percent. However, an ankle injury hindered him much of the season and required surgery after the playoffs.

Numerous NBA teams figure to use this loophole to their financial advantage. The New York Knicks reportedly are pursuing the option of waiving oft-injured Allan Houston, who like Finley has a long-term maximum contract.

The Suns have always loved Finley. He's a great locker room guy. He plays tough perimeter D. He can shoot the 3 and the mid-range.

And the Suns seem to love the "bring him home" story. Nash, Chambers, Ced, Majerle, etc, etc.

Plus, since his salary is astronomical anyway, and the Suns wouldn't have to pay it, he could be convinced to sign here very cheaply.

Wouldn't it be wonderful to go to the finals on Cuban's nickel!

 

[JCSunsfan]

Let's see.

Nash
JJ
Marion
Kurt Thomas
Amare

Jim Jackson
Finley
Donyell Marshall
Barbosa
Voshkul
Barbosa
Draft pick (Petro)

Need a pg backup. Oh, what the heck, add Payton.

Its a good start, anyways.

 

[Phill11]

Let's see.

Nash
JJ
Marion
Kurt Thomas
Amare

Jim Jackson
Finley
Donyell Marshall
Barbosa
Voshkul
Barbosa
Draft pick (Petro)

Need a pg backup. Oh, what the heck, add Payton.

Its a good start, anyways.

Finley on the bench? I can't see that happening. I can see Finley being brought in if JJ doesn't sign though.

 

[hsandhu]

Let's see.

Nash
JJ
Marion
Kurt Thomas
Amare

Jim Jackson
Finley
Donyell Marshall
Barbosa
Voshkul
Barbosa
Draft pick (Petro)

Need a pg backup. Oh, what the heck, add Payton.

Its a good start, anyways.

With just the midlevel and 1.7 exception that's not all gonna happen. But I love the idea of marshall. He's 6-9, in 39 mins two years ago grabbed nearly 11 boards, but can also hit from outside, shotting over 40 from three the past two years (including 12 in a game). Don't know how much he'll cost, but i think it would be a very good fit (either as a starter or off the bench).

 

[jbeecham]

I'd love to get Finley in here for the Vet. Min. for the next 3 years.

 

[Amare32]

I'd love to get Finley in here for the Vet. Min. for the next 3 years.

That would be the cheapest and biggest steal in the century.

 

[jbeecham]

If he's waived by Dallas then they will still be paying him the next 3 years of his contract so why would any team offer him more than the vet min? Even if they did, he still makes the same amount of money because it means Dallas pays him less.

 

[asudevil83]

if we could get finley for the vet-min that would be amazing....but i think he'll get better offers elsewhere.

best case scenario is Finley signing for the vet-min, Payton signing for the LLE, and adding Marshall with the MLE. we'd then draft a big man like Petro.

Amare/Petro
Thomas/Marshall
Marion/Finley
JJ/JJax/Barbs
Nash/Payton/Barbs

that lineup would be scary. the backups themselves are pretty much a starting lineup for some teams.

but its more likely that we will lose out on marshall because it would take the LLE to get Finley, and Payton would want half the MLE. we'd then trade barbs and our pick to move up a few slots, draft Diogu hopefully and sign a guy like Chris Andersen or resign Hunter with the other half the of the MLE.

Amare/FA
Thomas/Diogu
Marion/Finley
JJ/JJax
Nash/Payton

it's extremely decent, but of course i'd love the other lineup much more.

 

[asudevil83]

If he's waived by Dallas then they will still be paying him the next 3 years of his contract so why would any team offer him more than the vet min? Even if they did, he still makes the same amount of money because it means Dallas pays him less.

maybe....i figured that the mavs waiving him under this one time rule would be different than just releasing him.

i thought that whatever contract he signed with another team would just be an addition to what he'd still be getting with the mavs.

 

[fordronken]

If by some miracle we added Finley for the minimum it'd be amazing. We wouldn't really need Payton, though, or rather, he wouldn't want us. That would essentially mean that Payton only got minutes backing up Nash, which would be under 20 a game.

If we did get Finley, it'd be much easier to use Joe Johnson to spell Nash at point. Joe could exit the game earlier for Finley or Jim Jackson, then come back in for Nash. Whoever didn't come in(Fin or Jack) would then spell Marion(or KT if they were going small).

Barbosa could also fill some spot minutes. Thus, if they did get Fin, and added one more veteran big man(Donyell?) with the midlevel, this would be a pretty rugged playoff rotation: Nash, Joe, Marion, Amare, Kurt, Jim Jackson, Finley, Marshall, Barbosa. Then if you add any other veteran(hopefully big) with the low level exception who knows what they're doing, you've got an extremely powerful, versatile and LONG rotation for the playoffs. That's a nine or ten player rotation of people who all, with the exception of Barbosa, know what they're doing.

San Antonio who?

 

[devilalum]

Why would Finley play here for the min. when he could probably get a nice contract from some team with cap room?

Just because Cuban has to pay him the remainder of his contract doesn't mean Finley's going to throw away at least 10 million dollars he could make as a free agent to play for the Suns for the min.

Finley's 32. He could easily get a 3 year contract starting in the $5 million range that would total around $18 million. Why would he sign for the vet min. and throw away all that extra cash?

Its not like he's played for loser teams his whole career and has never had a chance to win.

 

[devilalum]

Finley also has quite an ego. I think he'd rather play for a good team where he'll start.

 

[jbeecham]

Why would Finley play here for the min. when he could probably get a nice contract from some team with cap room?

Just because Cuban has to pay him the remainder of his contract doesn't mean Finley's going to throw away at least 10 million dollars he could make as a free agent to play for the Suns for the min.

Finley's 32. He could easily get a 3 year contract starting in the $5 million range that would total around $18 million. Why would he sign for the vet min. and throw away all that extra cash?

Its not like he's played for loser teams his whole career and has never had a chance to win.

Finley still gets paid the $45 million (or so) left on his 3 yr contract by Dallas whether he plays for any other team or not. If any team signs him then it is not in addition to what Dallas has to pay him, it reduces what Dallas has to pay him. So if a team offered Finley $5 million a year then Dallas pays him $10 million instead of $15..........Finley is not a free agent, he's a waived player and would have to clear waivers 1st and then after would be free to sign with any team if no one claims him (which I doubt anyone would). Then after clearing waivers, he's free to sign with any team, but like I said above that the contract he gets with the new team just reduces Dallas's amount they have to pay him.

 

[Kolo]

Signing Finley to a minimum wage deal is a nice thought, but I'm sure Finley will get full MLE offers from a bunch of teams--Nuggets, Pistons, Wizards if they lose Larry Hughes, etc... Even though he's friends w/ Nash and probably would like playing here, I'd imagine he'll follow the money. The question is whether we'd use the MLE on him, and to me that's not a bad idea.

EDIT--never mind--if he's getting a total of $51 million for three years no matter where he plays, he'll probably just pick the team he likes best and sign whatever offer they make--in which case, the Suns would be crazy not to offer him a three year deal.

 

[devilalum]

Finley still gets paid the $45 million (or so) left on his 3 yr contract by Dallas whether he plays for any other team or not. If any team signs him then it is not in addition to what Dallas has to pay him, it reduces what Dallas has to pay him. So if a team offered Finley $5 million a year then Dallas pays him $10 million instead of $15..........

If you're correct then the Suns need to put together their recruiting team and fly back to Dallas but I don't see how that's legal.

 

[jbeecham]

First Dallas has to waive him (which isn't definite), then he has to clear waivers (which he should) and then we can recruit him. I think he'd like to play here again because the fans have always continued to cheer him and he's a good friend of Nash.

 

[devilalum]

Signing Finley to a minimum wage deal is a nice thought, but I'm sure Finley will get full MLE offers from a bunch of teams--Nuggets, Pistons, Wizards if they lose Larry Hughes, etc... Even though he's friends w/ Nash and probably would like playing here, I'd imagine he'll follow the money. The question is whether we'd use the MLE on him, and to me that's not a bad idea.

There's nobody better the Suns could get for the 3.7 MLE but I still think FInley could make more from some team with cap room. The Suns could offer him the MLE for 5 years with full raises? Works out to about $21 million.

 

[Kolo]

There's nobody better the Suns could get for the 3.7 MLE but I still think FInley could make more from some team with cap room. The Suns could offer him the MLE for 5 years with full raises? Works out to about $21 million.

I hope I got it wrong and beecham's right, that any salary he gets from his new team will be deducted from what Cuban pays him because he was waived. If not, I agree that it'd be a good idea to go after him w/ the MLE (although I think it's $5.1 million).

 

[Chris_Sanders]

There's nobody better the Suns could get for the 3.7 MLE but I still think FInley could make more from some team with cap room. The Suns could offer him the MLE for 5 years with full raises? Works out to about $21 million.

Finley's skills are declining too rapidly for a 5 year deal.

 

[devilalum]

Finley's skills are declining too rapidly for a 5 year deal.

I read that the new MLE will be 2 part with the largest being 3.7.

I said 5 year thinking it would be a way to offer him what he's worth without having the cap room to do so. Finley would contribute as much for the Suns over at least the next 2 seasons as Q would have.

How much is Q making next year?

 

[Jay Cardinal]

Beecham is right

Finley doesn't get to double-dip. He will be paid $51 million regardless of where he goes and what contract he signs. If the Suns pay him $1 million, Dallas pays $50 million. The Suns pay $21 million, Dallas $30 million and so on.

In other words, he will sign for the minimum. There is no logical reason for the Suns or any other team to pay anymore than the vet. minimum. unless they are trying to save Mark Cuban save money by picking up the tab. Finley will realize this and will make his decision based on playing time and quality of team rather than contract offers.

This rule allows owners one chance to say they made a mistake and waive 1 player. They still have to pay him his entire contract, but they save the dollar for dollar luxury tax that is applied when the team is over the salary cap. I'm strongly against this rule, because it penalizes teams that have managed some fiscal restaint while others have doled out excessive contracts.

I'd imagine Finley will consider the Suns given his past history and the Nash connection. But what is to stop him from signing with the Spurs or Pistons? He would fit in great with those teams as well.

 

[Joe Mama]

I'm not sure if Finley could be assured enough playing time with this team. Same goes for Payton.

Joe Mama

 

[devilalum]

Finley doesn't get to double-dip. He will be paid $51 million regardless of where he goes and what contract he signs. If the Suns pay him $1 million, Dallas pays $50 million. The Suns pay $21 million, Dallas $30 million and so on.

In other words, he will sign for the minimum. There is no logical reason for the Suns or any other team to pay anymore than the vet. minimum. unless they are trying to save Mark Cuban save money by picking up the tab. Finley will realize this and will make his decision based on playing time and quality of team rather than contract offers.

This rule allows owners one chance to say they made a mistake and waive 1 player. They still have to pay him his entire contract, but they save the dollar for dollar luxury tax that is applied when the team is over the salary cap. I'm strongly against this rule, because it penalizes teams that have managed some fiscal restaint while others have doled out excessive contracts.

I'd imagine Finley will consider the Suns given his past history and the Nash connection. But what is to stop him from signing with the Spurs or Pistons? He would fit in great with those teams as well.

If you are correct maybe another reason he'd sign with the Suns is to make Cuban look like an even bigger idiot. Can you imagine the fan backlash that would result from Finley coming to the Suns after letting Nash go a year ago and losing to the Suns in the playoffs?

I think Finley would get more of an ego boost from playing for a team that had not already won without him. Then again if he can pretty much choose any team he wants don't you think he'd pick a good team where he can start or at least get the most minutes?

How many minutes a game would he play for the Suns?

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I'm not sure if Finley could be assured enough playing time with this team. Same goes for Payton.

Joe Mama

I don't believe Finley's play warrants any more playing time than what he would be getting on the team.

 

[Joe Mama]

I don't believe Finley's play warrants any more playing time than what he would be getting on the team.

That may be true. I could see him going to a team like Miami that could offer him twice as much PT. Barring injury I'm not sure how he could get more than 15 minutes per game here unless it came at the expense of Jimmy Jackson's playing time.

Joe Mama