First Cuts

[kerouac9]

Rugby, you have us cutting almost half of the 53-man roster. If you think that's what's going to happen this season, you're going to be quite disappointed. Graves doesn't believe this team is that far away, talent-wise. I expect that aside from our rookies, we'll be looking at maybe a half-dozen other players that will be released, and maybe 5 total starters.

If we're really going to have to integrate 20 players between the start of free agency and the start of the 2007 season, we're going to have another 5-11, 6-10 year.

 

[BigRedArk]

Rugby, you have us cutting almost half of the 53-man roster. If you think that's what's going to happen this season, you're going to be quite disappointed. Graves doesn't believe this team is that far away, talent-wise. I expect that aside from our rookies, we'll be looking at maybe a half-dozen other players that will be released, and maybe 5 total starters.

If we're really going to have to integrate 20 players between the start of free agency and the start of the 2007 season, we're going to have another 5-11, 6-10 year.

So you think somewhere around 13 or so new players this year that will have a decent chance of making the roster?

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Rugby, you have us cutting almost half of the 53-man roster. If you think that's what's going to happen this season, you're going to be quite disappointed. Graves doesn't believe this team is that far away, talent-wise. I expect that aside from our rookies, we'll be looking at maybe a half-dozen other players that will be released, and maybe 5 total starters.

If we're really going to have to integrate 20 players between the start of free agency and the start of the 2007 season, we're going to have another 5-11, 6-10 year.

I know. That is why some are "On the fence".

I suspect some of "Green's guys" getting tossed like Tate, Lewienski, & Arrington and some of "Green's projects" getting the boot too like Wakefield, Bronson, & Schable.

But yes that is a lot of name. I don't think all of them will get the boot but I think the new coach will want some of his specialty players.

And K9 you could shred my list if you want. Cut it down by saying who you agree with or not.

Actually I could trim the list a little too. The "Good as gone" list I think, IMO, will be pretty accurate with most of those players leaving in one way or another.

Personally I would like to see C.Cooper, Arrington, Ross, Wakefield and Obafemi stay with the club. And for the right price I would like to see M.Shipp stay but I think he is going to be looking for a starting job somewhere like NYJ.

 

[Assface]

I don't see too many guys who are under contract being cut untill the new coach has had a chance to see them in training camp. If anyone goes early it's going to be veterans and former starters who there's plenty of film on. The new coach is going to know exactly what he's getting in Oliver Ross, for example. Any player on his first contract, like E. Brown and Blackstock will be here at least untill preseason. Guys like Wakefield will always have a job. Teams only have 53 players and 8 practice squad guys, having someone who can line up at DE, DT, all OL positions and TE helps out a lot at practice and saves roster spots. High energy/not as high talent players don't make for great starters but they do make the good starters work harder during practice. Remember when KVB actually got Big of all people fired up enough to start throwing punches?

 

[kerouac9]

I'd guess probably somewhere between 10 and 15, yeah. I think we'll have 5 or 6 draft picks because we traded one or two, right? Then Macklin's probably gone, Orlando Huff is almost definitely gone, and I don't remember whether or not Griffith is going to be a free agent, but he should still be here, even if we have to re-sign him.

We'll have to sign or draft at least one but hopefully two cornerbacks, a backup SS, a WLB, a backup LT, a backup RB. That's six right there.

 

[HeavyB3]

You guys once again amaze me. Why would we cut Bryant Johnson? He played very well as our 3rd wide receiver. He's not making a ton of money and he was a good option when we went deep. I think you guys are just bitter that he drops some balls. It's unfortunate, but he gives us a very good third option that makes it hard for defenders to double boldin and fitz.

 

[kerouac9]

Guys that are as good as gone:
D.Blackstock - I think he stays
S.Boyd - Probably on the fence, but will come to camp
J.Bronson - Probably come to camp, but I didn't know he was still on the roster. Did he get re-signed to the practice squad?
E.Brown - Gone. According to everyone, the only reason that Brown was on the roster this season was to save Graves the embarassment of cutting him.
R.Griffith - I'd like to see him stay if he wants to. I don't think he's a free agent (though I could be wrong), and for the small amount of money that he'll be making, he more than outplays in terms of leadership and big plays.
A.Schable - I don't really care. Again, I think he'll come to camp (if he's still under contract), because DEs who can play are hard to come by. Did he end up on IR?
A.Stepanovich - Stays and will probably make the team. Again, he's a body with game experience for a pittance in terms of salary. He may have been a weak link in terms of being a starter, but I think that he can be a good backup.
R.Tate - Gone.
F.Wakefield - Again, if he's not a free agent, you don't have a lot to lose by bringing him to training camp. Maybe he improves as a blocker, but he is probably already better at TE than Adam Bergen.
A.Bergen - Unless you already have a replacement on the roster, I don't know how you can let him leave. Take him to camp until you get someone better.
R.Cantu - Probably gone. I have no idea why he's still around since we only got him for PR purposes.

Guys on the fence:
JJ Arrington - Still here. 100%. I don't think he's a "Denny Guy" the way that Robert Tate is. He's a better backup RB than Shipp, and he makes a low salary. He's only going to get better. He's the RB equivalent of Bryant Johnson.
O.Ayanbadejo - I'd keep him. He's a good team guy, a good West Coast fullback, and an adequate blocker, no matter what people here say, especially in the passing game.
C.Cooper - Outplayed Jonathon Lewis for spot on the active roster. DE/DTs that can play in the NFL are hard to come by. Definitely take him to camp.
O.Huff - A free agent so you don't have to cut him. Probably an adequate backup if James Darling hadn't been injured all season, but you don't want him starting on the Weakside. If you can't find anyone better in free agency, Graves ought to give him an minimum-salary contract and let him try and earn a job in training camp.
C.Liwienski - This team already has a ton of guards, many of which are better than this guy. I'd still probably take him to camp, but he'll have to be impressive to get a job.
J.Navarre - Tender him the RFA contract. Better the devil you know, and he can be a solid #3 QB and does a good impersonation of the more statuesque QBs for the scout team.
C.Pace - Despite what he's making, I'm not sure you can find a better #4 DE in the NFL. He's the albatross around Rod Graves' neck, for sure, but he does give Clancy Pendergast some flexibility in his defensive personnel groupings
O.Ross - Can he be a backup RT? Probably. Can he backup both guard positions? Probably. If he can answer those questions and stay healthy through training camp, he should be an asset kept on the team.
J.Darling - He's another free agent, so I don't think you have to worry about cutting him. If you can't bring him back for a low-salary deal, then you have to bring back Huff. Beisel's emergence made him more expendable, but I don't think you want to gut all the experience that's on this roster right now, and that's one thing that Darling brings in spades.

The new coach, I hope, will bring in some of thier players, and get rid of some of Green's guys.

The long and short of it is that I don't think that Bidwill or Graves thinks the roster is the problem, and anyone expecting us to make an Edge-type splash in free agency is going to be disappointed (if only because there aren't going to be any Edge-type guys in free agency this year). If anything, we'll probably have to overspend to staunch some of the bleeding at WLB, backup SLB, and CB. If we let Leonard Davis go into free agency, this team is really going to be in trouble and will again let self-inflicted need dictate their draft strategy.

I'm a conservative guy when it comes to roster management, though. I'm much more likely to favor the devil you know than hope something better comes along unless the player has shown to be a total failure (or executive, in some cases). Just because a guy is a bad starter doesn't mean he can't be a good backup.

 

[Assface]

I'm agreeing with K9 a lot in this thread.

 

[PJ1]

You guys once again amaze me. Why would we cut Bryant Johnson? He played very well as our 3rd wide receiver. He's not making a ton of money and he was a good option when we went deep. I think you guys are just bitter that he drops some balls. It's unfortunate, but he gives us a very good third option that makes it hard for defenders to double boldin and fitz.

Yes, we are bitter because he is a receiver and drops balls. Shouldn't we be?

 

[ajcardfan]

Macklin and Huff don't count as "cuts" since they are already free agents.

The new coach will probably make at least one cut that will catch us all by surprise. They usually do.

 

[devilfan02]

Yes, we are bitter because he is a receiver and drops balls. Shouldn't we be?

Not to mention the balls he dropped cost us wins. He didn't single handedly lose us games but if he caught 2 more balls, we'd have 2 more wins.

 

[HeavyB3]

Not to mention the balls he dropped cost us wins. He didn't single handedly lose us games but if he caught 2 more balls, we'd have 2 more wins.

True but he averaged 18.5 yards per catch and had 740 yards. He adds something to this offense. He is better than most 3rd wide receivers in this league.

 

[Zeno]

True but he averaged 18.5 yards per catch and had 740 yards. He adds something to this offense. He is better than most 3rd wide receivers in this league.

He is better than some not most.

I'd keep him as a 4th WR no problem though, especially if we pick up a true speed WR in the draft.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

The long and short of it is that I don't think that Bidwill or Graves thinks the roster is the problem, and anyone expecting us to make an Edge-type splash in free agency is going to be disappointed (if only because there aren't going to be any Edge-type guys in free agency this year). If anything, we'll probably have to overspend to staunch some of the bleeding at WLB, backup SLB, and CB. If we let Leonard Davis go into free agency, this team is really going to be in trouble and will again let self-inflicted need dictate their draft strategy.

I'm a conservative guy when it comes to roster management, though. I'm much more likely to favor the devil you know than hope something better comes along unless the player has shown to be a total failure (or executive, in some cases). Just because a guy is a bad starter doesn't mean he can't be a good backup.

You get the hat-trick of :

 

[Crazy Canuck]

He is better than some not most.

I'd keep him as a 4th WR no problem though, especially if we pick up a true speed WR in the draft.

Name the 16 that are better...

 

[kerouac9]

He is better than some not most.

I'd keep him as a 4th WR no problem though, especially if we pick up a true speed WR in the draft.

No, I think most. He's among the top 50 or so players in the league in terms of receiving yards. Devry Henderson was the only #3 WR that I can find that had more receiving yards. Not even a guy that I like more than Bryant Johnson as a #3 (Chris Henry) has more yards than #80.

So, yeah. Statistically speaking, he is better than most. In fact, I'd challenge you to name 17 better #3 WRs in the NFL than Bryant Johnson. I think I can only manage 5 before it starts getting really hard.

1. Chris Henry
2. Bobby Engram
3. Devry Henderson
4. Issac Bruce/Kevin Curtis
5.Ernest Wilford (maybe)

I think you're really overestimating the number of above-average slot WRs in the NFL right now.

EDIT: And I'm not saying that these five guys are better than Bryant Johnson, I'm just saying that at least 1, 2, and 4 are guys that I'd probably rather have than #80.

 

[40yearfan]

The long and short of it is that I don't think that Bidwill or Graves thinks the roster is the problem, and anyone expecting us to make an Edge-type splash in free agency is going to be disappointed (if only because there aren't going to be any Edge-type guys in free agency this year). If anything, we'll probably have to overspend to staunch some of the bleeding at WLB, backup SLB, and CB. If we let Leonard Davis go into free agency, this team is really going to be in trouble and will again let self-inflicted need dictate their draft strategy.

I'm a conservative guy when it comes to roster management, though. I'm much more likely to favor the devil you know than hope something better comes along unless the player has shown to be a total failure (or executive, in some cases). Just because a guy is a bad starter doesn't mean he can't be a good backup.

 

[Zeno]

No, I think most. He's among the top 50 or so players in the league in terms of receiving yards. Devry Henderson was the only #3 WR that I can find that had more receiving yards. Not even a guy that I like more than Bryant Johnson as a #3 (Chris Henry) has more yards than #80.

So, yeah. Statistically speaking, he is better than most. In fact, I'd challenge you to name 17 better #3 WRs in the NFL than Bryant Johnson. I think I can only manage 5 before it starts getting really hard.

Alright I'll concede he is statistically better but I wouldn't consider him a dangerous playmaker as a #3. Chances of him catching a slant and outrunning a CB or Safety are rare...there are other WRs who would fit that bill and thats what this team needs. He is really another possesion guy, he doesn't display much of that speed he is supposed to have.

 

[john h]

now that Denny's gone. Navarre, Player and Arrington. What's yours?

Arrington may stay but we can sure do better with another return man. He was lousy in my opinion and look like he often went without even a whimper. He still looks like he is trying to avoid taking a hit more than gaining yardage.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

To me, our primary problem is on pass defense.

Why we were so terrible against the pass this year?

Guys like Eric Green and Macklin are probably nickle or dime type players, not starters.

Also, Huff is not getting the job done IMO. If we resign him, it would be as a back up.

So, I guess I would go after some of the depth LB and CB guys. Tate and Ware, Brandon Johnson and maybe Blackstock.

Offensivley, I might try to upgrade the online depth by replacing Lewenski, E. Brown, Gorin, Wakefield (sorry Fred!), Step and Ross.

 

[kerouac9]

Alright I'll concede he is statistically better but I wouldn't consider him a dangerous playmaker as a #3. Chances of him catching a slant and outrunning a CB or Safety are rare...there are other WRs who would fit that bill and thats what this team needs. He is really another possesion guy, he doesn't display much of that speed he is supposed to have.

Who, that are currently #3 WRs in the NFL? You don't even have to name 16 of them. Name 10 current #3s that you'd rather have than Bryant Johnson. I'm really curious.

 

[Zeno]

Who, that are currently #3 WRs in the NFL? You don't even have to name 16 of them. Name 10 current #3s that you'd rather have than Bryant Johnson. I'm really curious.

I haven't looked it up but I'm saying is I'd rather have a small quick guy (like a Santonio Holmes or Sinorice Moss) as a #3 than Johnson as they would add a different dimension to the team. Both are faster and would be more of a threat--Johnson just isn't different enough from Fitz and Boldin, he isn't a stretch the field type of WR--he is another possesion guy and thats it. Johnson could probably be a #2 on a lot of teams but he'll never be that here and doesn't really fill the role we need.

 

[kerouac9]

I haven't looked it up but I'm saying is I'd rather have a small quick guy (like a Santonio Holmes or Sinorice Moss) as a #3 than Johnson as they would add a different dimension to the team. Both are faster and would be more of a threat--Johnson just isn't different enough from Fitz and Boldin, he isn't a stretch the field type of WR--he is another possesion guy and thats it. Johnson could probably be a #2 on a lot of teams but he'll never be that here and doesn't really fill the role we need.

Just so you know, Santonio Holmes is the starter for the Pittsburgh Steelers and Moss had all of 5 catches this season and appeared in only 6 games. His inability to become a contributor as a rookie was a major reason that the New York Giants stunk down the stretch this year.

It wasn't I who asserted that Bryant Johnson was a below-average #3 WR in the NFL. That was you. All that people are asking you to do is back that up.

You insist that Bryant Johnson isn't "explosive" enough as a 3rd WR, but he was 3rd in the NFL in YPC (Holmes was 10th). I'm just not sure where you're getting your information from, because it doesn't seem to have a lot of basis in reality.

Speaking of Holmes: If you think that #80 drives you crazy, why don't you ask a Steeler fan what he thinks of the rookie from Ohio State's drops and fumbles this season? He killed that team in a couple games, but only scored 2 TDs all season. Bryant Johnson found the end zone every 10 times he caught the ball.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Holmes is a rookie and most of his fumbles were early on and on punt/kickoff returns. Ther were more of a sign of nerves than anything else and as the season has gone on they have diminished significantly. Jerry Rice had alot of drops as a rookie. BJ still making key drops as a seasoned veteran is what's concerning. I'll bet Holmes production next year is better than any year BJ had had as a pro.

 

[40yearfan]

Holmes is a rookie and most of his fumbles were early on and on punt/kickoff returns. Ther were more of a sign of nerves than anything else and as the season has gone on they have diminished significantly. Jerry Rice had alot of drops as a rookie. BJ still making key drops as a seasoned veteran is what's concerning. I'll bet Holmes production next year is better than any year BJ had had as a pro.

I don't know Cbus. BJ had some drops, but he also had some clutch 3rd. down catches that kept drives going and his TD catches definetely got the momentum going for the Cards.