First Setback of the season?

[joeshmo]

If he has a good year, he gets it. I say he will get about 10-20% more than what we think that he deserves. The cap is going up, so will the offers.

How many of us would have guessed correctly at the contract Pace received, and he isn't half the player than Dansby is...

Dansby is not going to be the 3rd LB in history to get a 9 Mill per season deal. It hasnt even happened in 4 years and the cap has gone up almost 40% since then. So what makes you think that a proposed 5% raise in cap space in 2009 is going to make Dansby the 3rd one. Tatupu got a 7.5 Mill deal which is the richest one since Urlacher. Even a hefty 10% raise is only 8.25 Mill.

If he does it is going to be a fake back loaded deal of which a lot of it he will never see like Clements got. He wont be getting 10 Mill per season like the 8 years 80 Mill spouted off by the media it is more like 6 years at 8.5 Mill per season.

Bringing up the pace really doesnt prove much either. The Jets were widely blasted for giving him that much money. Most of the league is laughing at the them. When Pace doesnt live up to that deal it will only make his deal look worse. That deal is not a good thing for Dansby in fact it will actually do more harm to Dansby then Good. Considering GM's around the league thought it was crazy to begin with, will only have their notions proven correct when Pace doesnt play to that level.

Asante Samuels a premuim overpriced position of CB is only making 9.5. What makes you think a LB is going to get to that level. Especially considering the LB trends in the NFL. They just arenot a hot commodity unless they have precieved pass rush skills of double digit sacks season. The Draft proves that out as well.

 

[DaisyCutter]

Bringing up the pace really doesnt prove much either. The Jets were widely blasted for giving him that much money. Most of the league is laughing at the them. When Pace doesnt live up to that deal it will only make his deal look worse. That deal is not a good thing for Dansby in fact it will actually do more harm to Dansby then Good. Considering GM's around the league thought it was crazy to begin with, will only have their notions proven correct when Pace doesnt play to that level.

Pace got more money than we were ever going to give him. And he got more money than he'll likely be able to justify with his play. But Miami was going to give him a ton of money, as well. Does it matter if they were going to give him $20 million guaranteed instead of $22? Or $18 million guaranteed.

Pace was a guy that wanted to go check out his options, and found that teams valued him far more than the Cards did. Pace was the third- or fourth-best guy on a terrible defense. Lance Briggs was maybe the 5th best player on his defense. Dansby's the second-best guy on a defense that almost can't help but improve (Pro Football Prospectus is predicting it will).

You think that the Cards are giving a fair contract if they're offering what Will Witherspoon got two years ago. I think that if the Cards offered what Tatupu got--before incentives--they'd have a player with a long-term contract in camp. Now, they're tying up their salary cap for a season to (likely) get nothing 8 months from now.

That's a real shame.

 

[joeshmo]

Pace got more money than we were ever going to give him. And he got more money than he'll likely be able to justify with his play. But Miami was going to give him a ton of money, as well. Does it matter if they were going to give him $20 million guaranteed instead of $22? Or $18 million guaranteed.

Miami was not going to give him a ton of money. His deal proposed deal with Miami was more back loaded then that of the Jets, and more of the gauranteed money was locked up in future roster bonuses instead of the signing bonus that the Jets gave to him. The Jets deal was considerably better.

You think that the Cards are giving a fair contract if they're offering what Will Witherspoon got two years ago. I think that if the Cards offered what Tatupu got--before incentives--they'd have a player with a long-term contract in camp. Now, they're tying up their salary cap for a season to (likely) get nothing 8 months from now.

You honestly think that if Dansby hasnt budged from 9 Mill per season and over 22 Mill gauranteed was all of a sudden going to take 7.5 Mill and less gauranteed Tatupo deal? The guy and his agent havent even negotiated and you think he was going to take considerably less money that of the only offer they have made the Cards? Just not buying it.

 

[CardLogic]

The first setback of the season will be the first game the Cardinals lose.

 

[vinnymac]

Imo, the first setback for the cardinals was answering the running game with 5th round pick Hightower. They could have gotten a proven back in fa, but chose not to. I hope Hightower can be part of the answer. He doesn't give me much hope.

 

[DaisyCutter]

You honestly think that if Dansby hasnt budged from 9 Mill per season and over 22 Mill gauranteed was all of a sudden going to take 7.5 Mill and less gauranteed Tatupo deal? The guy and his agent havent even negotiated and you think he was going to take considerably less money that of the only offer they have made the Cards? Just not buying it.

I think that Dansby wants Pace money. I think that it's Dansby's agent's job to talk him off that ledge. But I think that the Pace deal is the jumping-off point for Dansby's agent.

The Cards didn't want to do a long-term deal with Dansby this offseason, anyway. That has been pretty clear since the offseason began. It's not a decision that I agree with, but it's one I understand.

Do I think that a deal like the Witherspoon contract that tops out at the Tatupu contract is below Dansby's current value? Yes, I do. I think that Dansby would sign a contract that was similar to Tatupu's numbers but maxed out at Pace's with incentives. I'd make the incentives things like Pro Bowl invites (which I'm not sure he's going to get any time soon), and double-digit sack numbers.

I think that's a contract he'd sign, but that's all academic now. I don't think it's fair to say that there's "no chance" that Dansby could make that kind of money should he reach free agency. Dansby's probably a superior player to Witherspoon, and more of a versitile player than Briggs (who was a systems LB like Cato June, which is why there wasn't much of a market for either).

You can say that there's no chance an OLB would get a deal like Urlacher's or Ray Lewis's, but it's impossible to say that's the case, because a Pro Bowl-caliber LB entering the prime of his career with no real injury concerns hasn't reached free agency in some time. I don't think it's likely that Dansby gets that money, but I think it's possible.

 

[Sandan]

No injury history ?

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

No injury history ?

i guess missing training camp with an injury in 2006 makes him an injury risk in some people's mind because the most games he's ever missed during the regular season is 2. Peyton Manning is out 4-6 weeks and will miss most of camp. I guess he's an injury risk now.

 

[ajcardfan]

I noticed that most franchise players did not get a deal done by today. It seems to be a league-wide trend that it's in these guys interest to try an get to free agency, or get the monster deal from their own team. In the meantime, the tag amount is a damn nice insurance policy.

I think the change to the tag rule clearly tilted towards the player, rather than the team.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Seriously? So sure about Matt Stewart and a 32-year-old Clark Haggans? What about next year? The year after that?

Drafts and free agency happen every year. During this time you can get new players to fill in for the players you lose, or that become to old to play at a high leve.

AND you forgot Chike Okeafor. You know, the guy Pace couldn't beat out last year.

Matt Stewart plays ILB by the way, so take him out of the conversation.

Look, you have your opinion that Calvin Pace is the next Lawrence Taylor (over statement I know but he is getting paid like LT would right now). It is the same opinion the Jets have of the guy.

I say to both of you, in my opinion, you are wrong. He can't beat our Chike Okeafor for a spot, and has had one SOLID SEASON (his contract season no less) since he has been in the league.

Berry, Okeafor, Haggans, LaBoy, Harrington, Halloway. - I am very happy with this rotation.

You wanna pay a guy $50 mil to be a rotational player that is fine, but I sure as heck don't.

And to bring age into the conversation? SURE! Pace is going to be 28 years old in October anyway. If you are going to try and teach a guy to switch from DE to OLB you might as well do it with a rookie so when they reach 27 they have been playing the position for a while. All Pace has done up to last season is suck at DE, fall out of windows, and learn how to play OLB over the course of ONE SEASON.

As I said before......Calvin Pace is the Jets' next David Barrett.

In reality the only OLB that should be making Calvin Pace type money will be a free agent next year. That would be the guy the Cardinals should have drafted all along. T-Sizzle!

 

[DaisyCutter]

Rugby, We were always going to Chike this season. The choice was never Chike v. Pace.

I don't want Pace + His Jets contract. I would've wanted Pace at a contract that he would have signed in November or December. He definitely would have signed for the contract that Patrick Kearney got the winter before in Seattle (six years, $39.5 million, $19.5 guaranteed). He probably would have stayed for the kind of money that Vonnie Holliday got from Miami (4 years, $20 million, $10 million in bonuses).

Instead the Cards offered him Dockett's contract from two years ago, and he laughed because he knew he was playing the best football of his career.

Good teams don't let their players reach free agency. You may salivate over the 2009 free agent list now, but wait until January and 85% of those players have new deals. Most of the other teams in the NFL have plenty of cap room to re-sign or extend their own guys.

 

[cgolden]

i guess missing training camp with an injury in 2006 makes him an injury risk in some people's mind because the most games he's ever missed during the regular season is 2. Peyton Manning is out 4-6 weeks and will miss most of camp. I guess he's an injury risk now.

In my mind, a guy who's been in the league for four seasons and has yet to play in 16 games has a 'history of injuries.'

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Dansby is not going to be the 3rd LB in history to get a 9 Mill per season deal. It hasnt even happened in 4 years and the cap has gone up almost 40% since then. So what makes you think that a proposed 5% raise in cap space in 2009 is going to make Dansby the 3rd one. Tatupu got a 7.5 Mill deal which is the richest one since Urlacher. Even a hefty 10% raise is only 8.25 Mill.

If he does it is going to be a fake back loaded deal of which a lot of it he will never see like Clements got. He wont be getting 10 Mill per season like the 8 years 80 Mill spouted off by the media it is more like 6 years at 8.5 Mill per season.

Bringing up the pace really doesnt prove much either. The Jets were widely blasted for giving him that much money. Most of the league is laughing at the them. When Pace doesnt live up to that deal it will only make his deal look worse. That deal is not a good thing for Dansby in fact it will actually do more harm to Dansby then Good. Considering GM's around the league thought it was crazy to begin with, will only have their notions proven correct when Pace doesnt play to that level.

Asante Samuels a premuim overpriced position of CB is only making 9.5. What makes you think a LB is going to get to that level. Especially considering the LB trends in the NFL. They just arenot a hot commodity unless they have precieved pass rush skills of double digit sacks season. The Draft proves that out as well.

I won't ever claim to know more about the cap, contracts. etc. that you do.

Every summer there will be one person who is overpaid, whether they deserve that contract or not. As it stands right now, I feel Dansby will be that guy. Nothing more than a educated guess if you will.

 

[jaguarpaw81]

The first setback of the season was the Watson injury IMO.

EDIT: Actually I though the first setback was keeping Rackers as our kicker.

 

[jaguarpaw81]

Rugby, We were always going to Chike this season. The choice was never Chike v. Pace.

I don't want Pace + His Jets contract. I would've wanted Pace at a contract that he would have signed in November or December. He definitely would have signed for the contract that Patrick Kearney got the winter before in Seattle (six years, $39.5 million, $19.5 guaranteed). He probably would have stayed for the kind of money that Vonnie Holliday got from Miami (4 years, $20 million, $10 million in bonuses).

Instead the Cards offered him Dockett's contract from two years ago, and he laughed because he knew he was playing the best football of his career.

Good teams don't let their players reach free agency. You may salivate over the 2009 free agent list now, but wait until January and 85% of those players have new deals. Most of the other teams in the NFL have plenty of cap room to re-sign or extend their own guys.

great post

 

[cgolden]

Good teams don't let their players reach free agency. You may salivate over the 2009 free agent list now, but wait until January and 85% of those players have new deals. Most of the other teams in the NFL have plenty of cap room to re-sign or extend their own guys.

What about the Steelers? Whiz has seen the Steelers let go of plenty of Pro Bowl linebackers.

 

[jaguarpaw81]

What about the Steelers? Whiz has seen the Steelers let go of plenty of Pro Bowl linebackers.

Whiz has seen the Steelers let of of plenty of former Pro-Bowl LBs that dont go on too much success after thery leave the steel city.

 

[40yearfan]

Whiz has seen the Steelers let of of plenty of former Pro-Bowl LBs that dont go on too much success after thery leave the steel city.

Are you saying that is because of Whiz's coaching?

 

[john h]

I would only think of it as a setback if the Cards werent offering a fare deal. Of which I think they are and are willing to work on it. Dansby and his agent havent budged from their 9 Mill per season and more gauranteed money then what Pace got, both numbers are crazy talk, Dansby does not deserve to be the 3 LB in history to get 9 Mill per season contract. They to me do not seem like a pair whom even want to or are willing to negotiate at all. Dansby will go to the highest bidder and according to the radio shows this morning they stated that Dansby has been mentioning to people in his circle that he wants to play in the south again.

I have to change my first sentance it without a doubt but be setback but one I cannot fault the Cards for as it takes two to tango. A set back I hope they have a backup plan for, a plan that they actually execute.

Of course Dansby wants the money but being as good as he is he will likely have a good chance to go to a real contender for major $$$$$. Even if our offer is as good as say a Dallas, New England, Giants, etc Dansby is going to the place where he will get more publicity and a chance for a ring. That has always been a problem for the Cards. Until we actually win something we are not as attractive to big time players. As usualy we will have to pay more for the good players.

 

[Duckjake]

In my mind, a guy who's been in the league for four seasons and has yet to play in 16 games has a 'history of injuries.'

Me too. But Dansby's played in 58 games during his 4 years in the NFL.

 

[CardinalChris]

Good teams don't let their players reach free agency. You may salivate over the 2009 free agent list now, but wait until January and 85% of those players have new deals. Most of the other teams in the NFL have plenty of cap room to re-sign or extend their own guys.

I have to disagree. Good teams don't let their cornerstones hit free agency. They let players they can replace and who are a notch below those players walk. That was Pace. Because by the time we realize it had turned on for Calvin, he was already overpriced for the team. We would have had to have signed him when he had still yet to perform on the field.

 

[CardinalChris]

Now, that being said it would have been nice to identify Karlos as a cornerstone player and sign him long term BEFORE last season was over.

 

[Duckjake]

No injury history ?

No cheapskate history?

What a cheap shot!

Dansby has played his rear off for the Cards and his production is even more impressive when you consider who was coaching the team his first 3 years in the league.

To insinuate that he is a slacker is beyond ridiculous.

 

[vinnymac]

Now, that being said it would have been nice to identify Karlos as a cornerstone player and sign him long term BEFORE last season was over.

I totaly agree with this. If the cardinals were going to use the Franchise tag on Dansby, then why didn't they try harder to get a long term deal done sooner rather than later. When you franchise someone then that means he is the key player for your entire team. It is a waste of time to franchise someone if you are not going to sign them to a long term contract.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

In my mind, a guy who's been in the league for four seasons and has yet to play in 16 games has a 'history of injuries.'

i don't agree.He plays LB and,like almost every other LB, gets dinged. Julian Peterson has a history because he's missed almost an entire year because of an achilles.Berry and Okeafor have injury histories as well.They have missed significant time. Plus Dansby has played when he's hurt unlike some god-like WR who was "saving himself for the playoffs".