Fitz are you paying attention???

[kerouac9]

Yes, Luck and Wayne had one magical year in 2012... However, since 2011, that is the only season Wayne has surpassed 1,000 yards or 100 catches.
Don't know all of the specifics about that 2012 season that contributes to his numbers, but he hasn't been remotely close since...

Well, that was the only year that Arians was his OC. Last year Wayne had an ACL tear that kept him out half the year, and this year he's 34 or 35.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Well, that was the only year that Arians was his OC. Last year Wayne had an ACL tear that kept him out half the year, and this year he's 34 or 35.

What happened in 2011?? There are always "other" related dynamics that contribute to an individual's stats... It's never as easy as saying, "well it didn't hurt so and so...". It was well documented how the entire offense - including both Carson and Larry, seriously struggled in their first year together and with BA's offense... But this year they were finding their groove, right when Palmer went down... :-(

 

[kerouac9]

What happened in 2011?? There are always "other" related dynamics that contribute to an individual's stats... It's never as easy as saying, "well it didn't hurt so and so...". It was well documented how the entire offense - including both Carson and Larry, seriously struggled in their first year together and with BA's offense... But this year they were finding their groove, right when Palmer went down... :-(

Do you really need me to tell you why the Colts offense under performed in 2011? Let me get you a Painter to draw you a picture.

Or you could look it up, smart guy.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Do you really need me to tell you why the Colts offense under performed in 2011? Let me get you a Painter to draw you a picture.



Or you could look it up, smart guy.

Whatever... I'm not even sure what your original pout was? Are you suggesting Wayne is better than Fitz?? Or, we would be better off to let Fitz go somewhere else?

 

[kerouac9]

Whatever... I'm not even sure what your original pout was? Are you suggesting Wayne is better than Fitz?? Or, we would be better off to let Fitz go somewhere else?

That, ceteris paribus, the concern that you have--apparently that Fitz was in a unique situation in 2013 that prevented him from fully showing his 1000-yard, 100-catch skill set--didn't exist for a similar player who was older and playing with a rookie QB in Reggie Wayne.

You can throw a lot of garbage against the wall to muddy those waters, but Fitz just hasn't been productive enough to justify a titanic salary in 2015. Are the Cards better off without Fitz but plus $9.2M in cap space next year?

Yes. 50 receivers had more receptions than Larry Fitzgerald this year. 47 receivers had more yards than him--including Michael Floyd. Fitz had 2 TDs this year(!!). Le'Veon Bell had more receiving yards than Larry Fitzgerald.

 

[oaken1]

Whatever... I'm not even sure what your original pout was? Are you suggesting Wayne is better than Fitz?? Or, we would be better off to let Fitz go somewhere else?

in 2011 Wayne had a guy throwing to him that was not a franchise caliber QB,...................... oh,..wait................

 

[kerouac9]

in 2011 Wayne had a guy throwing to him that was not a franchise caliber QB,...................... oh,..wait................

And yet Wayne had 960 yards and 4 TDs.

 

[82CardsGrad]

That, ceteris paribus, the concern that you have--apparently that Fitz was in a unique situation in 2013 that prevented him from fully showing his 1000-yard, 100-catch skill set--didn't exist for a similar player who was older and playing with a rookie QB in Reggie Wayne.



You can throw a lot of garbage against the wall to muddy those waters, but Fitz just hasn't been productive enough to justify a titanic salary in 2015. Are the Cards better off without Fitz but plus $9.2M in cap space next year?



Yes. 50 receivers had more receptions than Larry Fitzgerald this year. 47 receivers had more yards than him--including Michael Floyd. Fitz had 2 TDs this year(!!). Le'Veon Bell had more receiving yards than Larry Fitzgerald.

I'm not about to get into a debate over a sure, slam dunk future hall of famer...
And as I said earlier in this thread, my view is that Fitz should not be paid above $10 million in 2015.
My opinion on Fitz is that he is one of those players who should be considered a career franchise player, not just because of what he does on the field... But again, if the price isn't right, then so be it... I would be seriously bummed to see him wearing other colors on Sunday and I really don't believe it will come to that. But again, the price will determine it all...

 

[kerouac9]

I'm not about to get into a debate over a sure, slam dunk future hall of famer...
And as I said earlier in this thread, my view is that Fitz should not be paid above $10 million in 2015.
My opinion on Fitz is that he is one of those players who should be considered a career franchise player, not just because of what he does on the field... But again, if the price isn't right, then so be it... I would be seriously bummed to see him wearing other colors on Sunday and I really don't believe it will come to that. But again, the price will determine it all...

A salary package of $10M for Fitz is still a cap hold of more than $17M in 2015 alone.

 

[82CardsGrad]

A salary package of $10M for Fitz is still a cap hold of more than $17M in 2015 alone.

Yep... But, I'm not a capologist... Just hoping there is a way for both side to come together in a manner that doesn't create longterm cap issues. Not sure how it would happen, but it seems Brady and the Pats were able to find a way...

 

[Capital Card]

Thx for sharing that article! You're correct, Brady coughed up nothing... But, what does stand out to me is his comparatively low annual salaries for the next three seasons.... Says a lot about Brady that he is willing to be paid below market. I truly believe Fitz will do the same in an effort to remain a Cardinal.

Fitz is a money guy. He's not giving a hometown discount. The only leverage the Cards have is that they can "threaten" to pay him, leaving him on a team much less likely to perform due to the cap constraints of his contract.

I think he'll ultimately restructure, but it will be based on another contract extension where he gets all/most of the money owed to him up front. It's what he and his agent have been working toward for years, one last big payday, and Fitz hangs around for another 3-4 years. The team can thump it's chest and claim they get him at a reduced rate/annual salary; but, Fitz is going to get paid.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Fitz is a money guy. He's not giving a hometown discount. The only leverage the Cards have is that they can "threaten" to pay him, leaving him on a team much less likely to perform due to the cap constraints of his contract.



I think he'll ultimately restructure, but it will be based on another contract extension where he gets all/most of the money owed to him up front. It's what he and his agent have been working toward for years, one last big payday, and Fitz hangs around for another 3-4 years. The team can thump it's chest and claim they get him at a reduced rate/annual salary; but, Fitz is going to get paid.

I dunno... Fitz got a contract that was commensurate with where he was performing at the time. Does that make him a "money guy"? I don't believe so...
Will be very interesting to see how this ultimately shakes out. But I would be surprised if the Cards grossly over paid him and took cap hits over multiple years that would prevent them from creating the type of team Mike Bidwill and BASK desire...

 

[BW52]

If Fitz won`t do a team friendly restructure then its time to see who would be interested in a future HOF WR.I like Fitz but business is business and what happens if both parties dig in and refuse to budge?

 

[slanidrac16]

I believe Fitz is more than just a player on this team. He is the face and ambasador of a onced defunct franchise.

Fitz isn't going anywhere. He will restructure and he will not take a much of a pay cut. I'm no capologist but I can see him get a 3 year extension to flatten out the current cap hit.

My god, the guy is 31 years old. It's not like he's ready for the junk pile. His leadership, on and off the field, is invaluable. I think if the Cards were to let him go or trade hiim, UNLESS he demanded it) would create a negative PR move that I just don't believe Cards would want.

Since all of us are "experts" on Fitz's abilities and worth both today and tomorrow we can only suggest what we think he is worth on the field comparable to stats.

This team needs leaders on the field , in the locker room and off the field. NOT ONCE have we heard him bitch about his role or witnessed any sideline tantrums. He continues to do EVERYTHINg asked of him.

He should be a Cardinal for life.

 

[cardncubfan]

This article is saying that Brady actually got a $3 million raise.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl...million-media-fawns-over-sacrifice/ar-BBhlpKW

 

[Capital Card]

I believe Fitz is more than just a player on this team. He is the face and ambasador of a onced defunct franchise.

Fitz isn't going anywhere. He will restructure and he will not take a much of a pay cut. I'm no capologist but I can see him get a 3 year extension to flatten out the current cap hit.

My god, the guy is 31 years old. It's not like he's ready for the junk pile. His leadership, on and off the field, is invaluable. I think if the Cards were to let him go or trade hiim, UNLESS he demanded it) would create a negative PR move that I just don't believe Cards would want.

Since all of us are "experts" on Fitz's abilities and worth both today and tomorrow we can only suggest what we think he is worth on the field comparable to stats.

This team needs leaders on the field , in the locker room and off the field. NOT ONCE have we heard him bitch about his role or witnessed any sideline tantrums. He continues to do EVERYTHINg asked of him.

He should be a Cardinal for life.

Exactly. And FYI, Darren Urban repeatedly calls Fitz a "Money Guy" on podcasts.

Go Cards!!!

 

[NJCardFan]

The reality is that 12 million dollars is STILL ridiculous for Fitz at this point. We're talking about a WR who hasn't had 1000 yards for three straight seasons. You don't move forward by paying guys for what they did in the past.

You're blaming Fitz for this? He had 954 yards and 10 scores last year with a healthy Palmer. This season he had 784 yards with his most productive games coming in games Palmer played in(he was hurt for 2 others and hobbled at the end). Fitz's number issues aren't with him but with who is throwing him the ball. It's not like he dropped a bunch of passes. No one can get him the ball.

 

[kerouac9]

I dunno... Fitz got a contract that was commensurate with where he was performing at the time. Does that make him a "money guy"? I don't believe so...
Will be very interesting to see how this ultimately shakes out. But I would be surprised if the Cards grossly over paid him and took cap hits over multiple years that would prevent them from creating the type of team Mike Bidwill and BASK desire...

No, he got a contract that essentially created a new ceiling for the position that will not be reached for a decade or more. Only Calvin Johnson is in the same ballpark as Fitz's second extension. I'd be surprised if Dez Bryant, A.J. Green, or Demaryous Thomas get anything close to what either of those guys got.

The Fitz and Johnson deal destroyed the market for top wide receiver salaries. This isn't like Patrick Peterson getting $500K more than Sherman.

 

[kerouac9]

This article is saying that Brady actually got a $3 million raise.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl...million-media-fawns-over-sacrifice/ar-BBhlpKW

And gave up guaranteed salaries for the next 3 years--fully guaranteed salaries as of (essentially) today.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/tom-brady-new-england-patriots-contract/

Doesn't change his cap figure a dime. BTW, Fitz is scheduled to make three times what Brady is scheduled to make in 2015. That's not cap--that's salary and bonus.

 

[Russ Smith]

No, he got a contract that essentially created a new ceiling for the position that will not be reached for a decade or more. Only Calvin Johnson is in the same ballpark as Fitz's second extension. I'd be surprised if Dez Bryant, A.J. Green, or Demaryous Thomas get anything close to what either of those guys got.

The Fitz and Johnson deal destroyed the market for top wide receiver salaries. This isn't like Patrick Peterson getting $500K more than Sherman.

Exactly we created the mess by giving him that insane contract. He was a great player at the time but given our QB situation at the time committing that much money to one Wr was poor cap management.

 

[Cheesebeef]

You're blaming Fitz for this? He had 954 yards and 10 scores last year with a healthy Palmer. This season he had 784 yards with his most productive games coming in games Palmer played in(he was hurt for 2 others and hobbled at the end). Fitz's number issues aren't with him but with who is throwing him the ball. It's not like he dropped a bunch of passes. No one can get him the ball.

984 yards... Just isn't impressive AT ALL. And when Fitz was a star, it didn't matter who was throwing the ball. McCown... Skolbton... He put up 1400 yards with all those awful QBs. The argument that his numbers (which were terrible this season) are all because of the QB just doesn't hold water when guys like Andre Hopkins, Mike Evans, Vincent Jackson, Andre Johnson... Eric FREAKING Decker on the Jets all have MUCH better seasons with just as awful QBs.

He's just not a great player anymore. And if he is, apparently he can't be in the way BA uses him. It's sad, but it is what it is and we can't live in the past if this team wants to move forward into the future. Bottom line: He takes a pay cut or he needs to be gone. Continuing to put this off and hurting our cap down the line and limiting us in the present is a double whammy tha makes no sense to me.

 

[sportznutt]

No its not Fitz needs to not be selfish and give the team reasons contractually to keep him.

If your boss and if people around you thought you made too much money, would you take a pay cut too?

 

[sportznutt]

And his wife makes millions and millions a year as well.

 

[TJ]

Did you read the restructure though in reference to the bonus?? He forfeited 24 million that he ONLY gets if he gets injured..He threw away cash... Also left himself open to being cut with ZERO penalty on the cap…

Not your typical "Restructure " at all

FYI anytime a deal is redone its a "restructure"

Thanks. I'm obviously very knowledgeable of how restructures work.

In this particular situation, he's getting an additional million a year and there is no salary cap relief. Sure, the guarantees are wiped out. Plus, the Patriots would be out of their minds to cut him unless he suffers a serious injury, so in essence, there's little risk involved for Brady.

Brady is getting a raise, while we're going to ask Fitz to take a pay cut.

Again, these two situations are different. Brady's situation is more for cash flow; whereas for Fitz, the motivation is to gain salary cap flexibility. I'm sure if the salary cap wasn't an issue, the team would just pay the $23 mil outright, but that's a fantasy.

 

[TJ]

Exactly we created the mess by giving him that insane contract. He was a great player at the time but given our QB situation at the time committing that much money to one Wr was poor cap management.

W.W.R.G.D

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