Fitz' speed

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by vikesfan
You cannot single cover Quan. If Fitz pans out you will not be able to single cover him. That means 4 defensive players on 2 offensive players. That will open up your offense. There are plenty of speed WRs who get single covered in the NFL. Quan was not a speed guy yet he got doubled. Production is the key. Imagine if B Johnson had been as good as Quan and required 2 men to cover him - he wasn't.

I'm sorry, how many Cardinal games did you watch last season? All right, now exclude the one where he had 5 grabs for 27 yards. I saw a lot of them, and I didn't see a lot of Anquan getting double covered.

Why? Because there was no reason to. He wasn't going to be able to get past the corner, and the safety was just covering the "over" zone. The other safety was planted in the box.

I forget which game it was, but it was early in the season. Anquan had one catch in the first half, and they showed maybe 10 passing plays and what was going on with Anquan. Often, there was a guy that checked him at the line, and then just ran with him. NEVER ONCE WAS HE DOUBLE-COVERED.

I don't really remember a time all season when Anquan was truly double-covered the way they double Moss, Harrison, T.O., etc. There's a reason for that. Unless there's a speed threat, there's no reason for the safeties to play back/over. There's no threat on the outside to keep them out of the box. If one Anquan was such a threat to the secondary, defenses would have played less 9 in the box and more 8 in the box, at least. That wasn't the case.

MCD, you're arguement is totally speculative. You have NOTHING with which to support it. It's silly to argue this.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Originally posted by kerouac9
MCD, you're arguement is totally speculative. You have NOTHING with which to support it. It's silly to argue this.

Maybe a close example would be Burress and Ward with Pitt. Boldin would be like Ward and Fitz would be like Burress.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by MadCardDisease
Maybe a close example would be Burress and Ward with Pitt. Boldin would be like Ward and Fitz would be like Burress.

Um... Burress is a speedser. Nice try, though. He's fast. Burress ran a 4.6 on a slow track in Indy, but I bet that he usually runs a 4.45. This guy's not the 4.65 running the Fitzgerald is going to be.

Burress is a home run threat.

 

[red desert]

Originally posted by kerouac9
Um... Burress is a speedser. Nice try, though. He's fast. Burress ran a 4.6 on a slow track in Indy, but I bet that he usually runs a 4.45. This guy's not the 4.65 running the Fitzgerald is going to be.

Burress is a home run threat.

I'm ready to bet that Fitz runs at least a 4.6. By the way, I don't think Burress is a "speedster", is he?

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by red desert
I'm ready to bet that Fitz runs at least a 4.6. By the way, I don't think Burress is a "speedster", is he?

He's the deep, home-run threat for the Steelers. Ward is the possession, RAC guy. Randle-El is the wild card/sparkplug.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Originally posted by kerouac9
Burress ran a 4.6 on a slow track in Indy, but I bet that he usually runs a 4.45. This guy's not the 4.65 running the Fitzgerald is going to be.

Burress ran a 4.55 forty at the Mich. St. pro day workout before the draft. He was not at the Combine.

That's what I expect to see from Fitzgerald. Something in the 4.55 range.

 

[danny l]

I Look at Fitzgerald and I see a young Rice. Not an old slow Rice but a young, quick, and elusive Rice. Fitz has quicks, and great hands. (And no K. you CAN'T teach dependable hands.( I know- coaches tried to teach me to catch the ball for years). From what I have seen, Fitz has great body control also. I see a future pro bowler here. And a team with 2 pro-bowl wide receivers makes an outstanding QB. Ala,St. Louis. I think that the receivers on the Rams made the team great not the QB. I see this as being the way that Green and the Cardinals go on draft day.
Oh and by the way (correct me if you disagree Vikes fan) but I think that it his body control and hands that make Moss the great receiver he is much more so than his speed.

 

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by kerouac9
He's the deep, home-run threat for the Steelers. Ward is the possession, RAC guy. Randle-El is the wild card/sparkplug.

Well, then who's the catalyst?
Who's the go-to guy?
And who's the difference maker?

Look, this is no time to look a gift horse in the mouth. It's now or never. Our backs are against the wall. It's do or die. It's time to lead, follow, or get outta the way. Don't even think about counting your chickens before they hatch, because that doesn't amount to a hill of beans. It's crunch time. It's a pressure cooker. I used to be lost in the shuffle, now I just shuffle along with the lost. We have to take this one game at a time. With a little luck and the grace of God, we'll win the pennant. Don't put off until tomorrow what you can do today. We've got to go the extra mile. Don't judge a book by it's cover, because if you had time to do it twice, you had time to do it right the first time.

I'm out of cliches.

 

[AZCB34]

Udeze is faster than Fitzgerald and he can rush the passer.




Just kidding.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by MadCardDisease


Burress ran a 4.55 forty at the Mich. St. pro day workout before the draft. He was not at the Combine.

That's what I expect to see from Fitzgerald. Something in the 4.55 range.

Burress was a nationally-ranked track star. Are you still going to call him slow? He's 6'5", 225. Fitzgerald is two inches shorter at the same weight. And those are his school listings. I bet he'll measure shorter and lighter at the Combine.

So if he runs a 4.65 that I expect, are you off his bandwagon? That's surely too slow to justify the #3 overall choice.

I'd still like something more than wistful than wistful comparisons to Jerry Rice before I'm willing to draft a WR at #3 whose primary attributes are things that can all be taught to more talented players. Remember the parable of the two runners: One has good form and the other bad, but they run the same time. Which runner would you rather have?

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Originally posted by kerouac9
I'd still like something more than wistful than wistful comparisons to Jerry Rice before I'm willing to draft a WR at #3 whose primary attributes are things that can all be taught to more talented players.

Kinda like the comparisons of Taylor to Lott someone posted?

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by LVCARDFREAK
Kinda like the comparisons of Taylor to Lott someone posted?

How do you teach speed and instincts? That's what Taylor has.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Originally posted by kerouac9
How do you teach speed and instincts? That's what Taylor has.

Oh yeah, the Michael Vick of defense right?


So is that to mean we are to expect him to have a season ending injury next year too?


I am just busting your chops. I agree he is a great talent, there is no questioning that. And I certainly dont like Fitz or Williams or any other WR (have enough young wr's) but something about taking a safety that early is scary. No one is a sure-fire, cant miss hit, and for a safety to be an 'impact' player it takes not only the safety doing his job but the DC being able to scheme for him (a la Zimmer in Dallas).

Do we have that in AZ? A DC able/willing to do that? who knows?

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by LVCARDFREAK
I am just busting your chops. I agree he is a great talent, there is no questioning that. And I certainly dont like Fitz or Williams or any other WR (have enough young wr's) but something about taking a safety that early is scary. No one is a sure-fire, cant miss hit, and for a safety to be an 'impact' player it takes not only the safety doing his job but the DC being able to scheme for him (a la Zimmer in Dallas).

Do we have that in AZ? A DC able/willing to do that? who knows?

Actually, that's the most compelling arguement that I've heard from anyone against drafting Sean Taylor. And, frankly, one that gives me pause. I don't think that anyone here has any idea of what we should expect from our defense this season, as nothing of our defensive philosophy has come out about the Cards.

I agree that it takes a savvy, creative DC to take advantage of a talent like Taylor (or Roy Williams, or Brian Dawkins...). I wish that we'd gotten someone like Wade Phillips to run the D, but that's not what happened. As Personnel Director, it's up to Graves to give the coaches the best talent, and allow them to take advantage of it. Drafting Taylor would best fit that bill.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Originally posted by kerouac9
I bet he'll measure shorter and lighter at the Combine.

So if he runs a 4.65 that I expect, are you off his bandwagon? That's surely too slow to justify the #3 overall choice.

I doubt he will go to the combine. If he does run a 4.65 or slower then yes I will be off his bandwagon for the #3 overall pick. However I think he will be in the 4.55 range.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Originally posted by kerouac9
Actually, that's the most compelling arguement that I've heard from anyone against drafting Sean Taylor. And, frankly, one that gives me pause. I don't think that anyone here has any idea of what we should expect from our defense this season, as nothing of our defensive philosophy has come out about the Cards.

I agree that it takes a savvy, creative DC to take advantage of a talent like Taylor (or Roy Williams, or Brian Dawkins...). I wish that we'd gotten someone like Wade Phillips to run the D, but that's not what happened. As Personnel Director, it's up to Graves to give the coaches the best talent, and allow them to take advantage of it. Drafting Taylor would best fit that bill.

Well if Taylor is that talented it would take a blind man not see he should be the focal point of the defense. Having said that, you just never know. I agree with you, that none of us have any idea what type of defense will be run from these coaches.

I assume a 4-3 but frankly I havent got a clue!

 

[vikesfan]

This is getting silly.

Buffalo failed this year cause they had 2 possesion WRs. HUH? How about lousy coaching. No legit #2 WR and #1 WR being hurt? You need a possession WR and speed WR to succeed. HUH? TB and NE didn't have speed WRs. They won SBs.The notion that you cannot succeed with 2 Quans or 2 Cris Carters is simpley false you can. If you have a speed WR and a possession WR you will succeed - what? This is pure bunk. You don't want to draft Fitz fine but these arguements are silly.
Just like the arguement that you need a running game to win a SB NE won this year with no running game.
Or that you need a great defense to win a SB - STL won without a great defense.


(2) People here said Quan was doubled and tripled this year
I assume he was. If he wasn't well I guess he should have been. If Fitz is NOT doubled well then next year he will set the rookie WR record. This kid was a Heisman contender in his 2nd year as a WR for a reason he rocks.

(3) You don't want Fitz fine. But saying Fitz won't help the offense rock is wrong. If Fitz is drafted the offense will rock. Plus he has been timed from 4 42 to 4 50 who cares but that is not all that slow?

(4) McCowan to Quan 6 yard gain.
McCowant to Fitz 3 yard gain. Shipp 3 yard down. First Down. Shipp run 3 yards. McCowan to Fitz 4 yard gain. McCowan to Quan 6 yard gain. First down. McCowan to F Jones 8 yard gain. McCowan to Fitz 13 yard gain. First down. Shipp 6 yard run. McCowan to Quan 15 yard gain. First down. McCowan draw 11 yard gain. First down. Shipp 5 yard gain. McCowan to Fitz... TD!

"All he does is catch TDs" said Buddy Ryan about Cris Carter after he cut him.

 

[red desert]

Originally posted by vikesfan
This is getting silly.

Buffalo failed this year cause they had 2 possesion WRs. HUH? How about lousy coaching. No legit #2 WR and #1 WR being hurt? You need a possession WR and speed WR to succeed. HUH? TB and NE didn't have speed WRs. They won SBs.The notion that you cannot succeed with 2 Quans or 2 Cris Carters is simpley false you can. If you have a speed WR and a possession WR you will succeed - what? This is pure bunk. You don't want to draft Fitz fine but these arguements are silly.
Just like the arguement that you need a running game to win a SB NE won this year with no running game.
Or that you need a great defense to win a SB - STL won without a great defense.


(2) People here said Quan was doubled and tripled this year
I assume he was. If he wasn't well I guess he should have been. If Fitz is NOT doubled well then next year he will set the rookie WR record. This kid was a Heisman contender in his 2nd year as a WR for a reason he rocks.

(3) You don't want Fitz fine. But saying Fitz won't help the offense rock is wrong. If Fitz is drafted the offense will rock. Plus he has been timed from 4 42 to 4 50 who cares but that is not all that slow?

(4) McCowan to Quan 6 yard gain.
McCowant to Fitz 3 yard gain. Shipp 3 yard down. First Down. Shipp run 3 yards. McCowan to Fitz 4 yard gain. McCowan to Quan 6 yard gain. First down. McCowan to F Jones 8 yard gain. McCowan to Fitz 13 yard gain. First down. Shipp 6 yard run. McCowan to Quan 15 yard gain. First down. McCowan draw 11 yard gain. First down. Shipp 5 yard gain. McCowan to Fitz... TD!

"All he does is catch TDs" said Buddy Ryan about Cris Carter after he cut him.

Well said!

 

[MadCardDisease]

Originally posted by vikesfan
This is getting silly.

Buffalo failed this year cause they had 2 possesion WRs. HUH? How about lousy coaching. No legit #2 WR and #1 WR being hurt? You need a possession WR and speed WR to succeed. HUH? TB and NE didn't have speed WRs. They won SBs.The notion that you cannot succeed with 2 Quans or 2 Cris Carters is simpley false you can. If you have a speed WR and a possession WR you will succeed - what? This is pure bunk. You don't want to draft Fitz fine but these arguements are silly.
Just like the arguement that you need a running game to win a SB NE won this year with no running game.
Or that you need a great defense to win a SB - STL won without a great defense.


(2) People here said Quan was doubled and tripled this year
I assume he was. If he wasn't well I guess he should have been. If Fitz is NOT doubled well then next year he will set the rookie WR record. This kid was a Heisman contender in his 2nd year as a WR for a reason he rocks.

(3) You don't want Fitz fine. But saying Fitz won't help the offense rock is wrong. If Fitz is drafted the offense will rock. Plus he has been timed from 4 42 to 4 50 who cares but that is not all that slow?

(4) McCowan to Quan 6 yard gain.
McCowant to Fitz 3 yard gain. Shipp 3 yard down. First Down. Shipp run 3 yards. McCowan to Fitz 4 yard gain. McCowan to Quan 6 yard gain. First down. McCowan to F Jones 8 yard gain. McCowan to Fitz 13 yard gain. First down. Shipp 6 yard run. McCowan to Quan 15 yard gain. First down. McCowan draw 11 yard gain. First down. Shipp 5 yard gain. McCowan to Fitz... TD!

"All he does is catch TDs" said Buddy Ryan about Cris Carter after he cut him.

Ditto!